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tomclarke752

The 70s and 80s

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Hi all,

I''m currently in the early stages of a research project focusing on racism at football in the 70s and 80s.

As a Norwich fan I have decided to look specifically at our club.

-----I post this in the hope many of you who have memories from these decades are able to share them to aid my research into racism.

-----Any little memories, chants or perceptions black players for Norwich or the opposition would be brilliant (I''m also specifically interested in Fashanu)

-----Thank you for all help in advance

-----***Disclaimer*** Although this post and responses are being done for a historical purpose, I would recommend using asterisks (I.E f***) to cover any words which may be considered offensive by others, as I''m well aware that all ages use this forum and this post was not created to offend others.-----

Thanks Again, NCFC

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[quote user="tomclarke752"]A Dissertation project for my degree, hoping to take the project further afterwards if successful[/quote]

or this post and responses are being done for a historical purposeotherwise given that the meaning of rascism has being changed redefined much is pretty much academicthose who ride around in a caravan for a few months of the year are now a seperate race, as are the Welsh it would seemmuch was shouted on the basis of the ''other''s having something ''different'' about themthat''s all

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I remember the monkey chants very clearly. Racist abuse in those days was unsophisticated and just done through plain ignorance - and because you could get away with it.  It was something to goad an opposing player with and try and put him off - fans would relish having anything to try and get under the skins of opposing players, whether it was a funny haircut, or if you came from up north, or anything that would have some effect. Wrong it was and we knew it, but it was football and you did what you could to put the opposition off.  As social conscience grew and more and more black players appeared and the racist chanting got to ridiculous levels - it plainly had to stop, especially so when teams got black players of their own, such as us with the Fashanus.  There was an overlap for a time with the monkey chanting - when the chanting at the opposition black players happened while we had black players of our own on the pitch (who would be chanted at by away fans).  So it was ok (in football fan logic) for you to abuse opposing black players, while cheering your own. Barmy, but true.  I''m not aware of any of our fans abusing the Fashanus, but it wouldn''t surprise me if there was a bit done to start with - people didn''t really take it too seriously at that time - they just did it thinking it was a bit of "fun".

 

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Lakey, all that is true and it''s virtually non-existent now which is a good thing. But the deeply ingrained racism amongst football fans and some institutions still remains. What I mean by that is if you watch a football match in the company of the same people for long enough you may notice little things like one of them only refers to players as "a headless chicken" if they''re black. These people don''t even realise it themselves. Hopefully evolution will rid us of this.

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Not aware personally of the racist connection to the headless chicken phrase, and again personally I''ve not heard it directed at black players any more than white. To be fair I''ve not heard it a football very often.

Surely it derives from a chicken being able to survive albeit for a short while, after being beheaded.

Apologies if there is an alternative meaning that m not aware of.

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Tom
It was always easy for people, and probably still is, to racially abuse at a football match. The ones responsible are usually with a group of people and feel terribly safe doing so.
Abuse wasn''t just racial in the 70''s and 80''s. It has been argued that in the 70''s it was the rejection of the values of the 60''s just as the universal use of drugs in the 90''s saw the end of the 80''s abuse and violence.
But somebody different is an easy target and being black was and is different enough for some people to consider themselves superior because of their skin colour.
We have in general been spared that at Norwich. I remember Trevor Painter, a black player and Norwich born and bred (I went to school with his brother Colin) and personally never heard any abuse thrown at him because of his colour.
I went to many away grounds in the 70''s and to be honest the abuse was general and not racial at most games. Obviously there were individual cases but in those days the were not too many coloured or black people in Norfolk so the team was white and the away support was. The abuse was generally the standard, two thumbs mother is your sister as well stuff.
One cry you did hear regularly was aimed at the ref and it was "play the white man darkie". But in those days my grandparents had a black labrador called Nigger.
My view of Norfolk people in the period you cover is that racism did exist but was no more prevalent at Carrow Road than it would have been in pubs and clubs in the area.
In fact I  would say homophobia was more of a problem than racism.

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The word deleted and replaced with stars was the N word. It seems we are now censoring history as well. 

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I went a home game vs Leyton Orient, in 1978, and John Chiedoze (their winger) was subjected to a lot of ''monkey'' calls, and other chants that derived as a result of the programme Roots, of that era. My Mum was in our party, for her first ever game, and, because of those chants, she vowed never to go to another game again, a promise which she kept. At the time, I was young and didn''t recognise the seriousness of it all.

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You obviously didn''t understand the point I was making Greavsy. Probably deliberately. However I take your point.

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nutty nigel wrote the following post at 24/07/2017 2:36 PM:

You obviously didn''t understand the point I was making Greavsy. Probably deliberately. However I take your point.

Hence the request for an explanation, if you''d be so kind.

Thanks.

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[quote user="keelansgrandad"]The word deleted and replaced with stars was the N word. It seems we are now censoring history as well. [/quote]It was a name that Guy Gibson (of The Dambusters) gave his dog, in a recent TV screening the name was over dubbed. The Enid Blyton book with the N word in the title has also been ''amended''. We have moved on from those days, you only have to watch those TV programes ''It was alright in the insert decade here'' to realise how much has changed for the better.As far as the racist chanting goes I can remember hearing chants about Justin Fashanu and the phrase ''send him back to London Zoo''. I also challenged someone in the old River End when they made monkey chants against an opposition player and they stopped, it was dissapointing as the person in question was on the City council at the time.

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nutty nigel wrote the following post at 24/07/2017 2:54 PM:

And here we go again....

I shall not return to this thread.

Genuine question nutty, as also backed up by HHS comments too, as his understanding appears to be the same as mine. If you could try to be clearer in your posts.

Flounce off like a spoit child if you like. I''m sure you put downs won''t be missed.

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I remember when Paul Ince was sacked as Blackpool manager a few years back, and he claimed it was because he was black.

The chairman replied with the comment ''he was as black on the day I fired him as he was the day I gave him the job''

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Lakey, all that is true and it''s virtually non-existent now which is a good thing. But the deeply ingrained racism amongst football fans and some institutions still remains. What I mean by that is if you watch a football match in the company of the same people for long enough you may notice little things like one of them only refers to players as "a headless chicken" if they''re black. These people don''t even realise it themselves. Hopefully evolution will rid us of this.[/quote]Strange, because the first person to spring to my mind that fits that epithet is Lee Croft.Not very dark if I recall.

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As far as this thread is concerned NN has taken his ball away to sulk, rather than substantiate his comment, and have a discussion.

We therefore will never know.

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Man who sits not too far from me often uses the ''''headless chicken phrase'''' think it was aimed at Naismith last time I heard it, though could never understand why, think he needs to go to Specsavers, man not Naismith lol

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[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]Lee Croft was also my first thought Ricardo[/quote][Y]Indeed. The phrase refers to someone running around aimlessly in my understanding, so I don''t really see where it has racist undertones.Delving back deeper into the memory banks the name Charlie Crickmore springs to mind. Also not very dark.

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The phrase itself doesn''t have racist undertones, the point being made was that there are people who would ONLY use that or any other derogatory term (lazy, useless, couldn''t pass water, couldn''t hit a barn door etc) towards a black player.

So, it''s not the phrase that is racist it''s the person using it in as much as their opinion is based on the players colour rather than their ability.

Such phrases are used to describe players of all colours, creeds etc generally but the point NN was making is that if you pay attention to who says what about which players, you can quickly identify those that have some form of deeply ingrained racism clouding their thoughts.

These folk are aware that use of certain terms will result in ejection and a ban, so they don''t use them. That doesn''t stop them from being racist it just manifests itself in a different way. As in using seemingly innocuous terms but ONLY towards black players.

Hope that explains things a little better, if you still don''t get it then I won''t further labour the point.

Essentially, just because you don''t say certain things for fear of reprisal it doesn''t alter your mindset. If you spend enough time in the company of people with these deep-rooted opinions, they''ll eventually become apparent even if they don''t literally spell it out for you.

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I thought everybody called Cureton '' barn door Jamie '' and he was not black. Anyway i also for what it''s worth don''t understand this headless chicken remark being directed towards primarily black players. Oh! nearly forgot Fotheringham could not pass water and he was not black either.

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I think Tom may have to change his dissertation to how long can Norwich supporters stay on topic.

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