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Bill

J Murphy to be sold .....

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[quote user="Parma Hams gone mouldy"]Losing Jacob the jewel in the crown would be a total disaster.

If only we had someone a bit like him. Then we could take the money, prepare for the future and not need to go through revolution again at the end of next season as well.

Parma[/quote]

Yes, if only he had a twin brother, we''d be ok. [:(]

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I do wonder if those who say ''we can sell him as we have Josh'' actually watching him them very much- they are quite different players.

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[quote user="Parma Hams gone mouldy"]Losing Jacob the jewel in the crown would be a total disaster.

If only we had someone a bit like him. Then we could take the money, prepare for the future and not need to go through revolution again at the end of next season as well.

Parma[/quote]
If only, yeah!
If only, yeah… if only, yeah… if only
If only… if only
[:D]

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[quote user="king canary"]I do wonder if those who say ''we can sell him as we have Josh'' actually watching him them very much- they are quite different players.[/quote]Quite aware they are different players, thank you, but in terms of potential/ability, they are both on a par, some would say Josh could be better.

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[quote user="City 2nd"]peateabee wrote the following post at 2017-07-15

Even if Jacob is a Newcastle fan I still don''t think that means we automatically need to let him go! This is the classic example of the club hierachy needing to at least have the ''one more season'' chat. There are good sound reasons for him personally to stay as well. Frankly I, and I''m sure a lot of norwich fans, would think it was best for Jacob to be guaranteed first team football this season. He needs serious minutes this year to continue his development. The challenge of changing clubs and living up to a transfer fee will be new and with Matt Ritchie already well embedded in Jacobs favoured position there is no guarantee he will get those minutes at Newcastle who will start the season in a relegation scrap along with half the Premiership. He has to hit the ground running there. But here he can grow, develop, build his confidence and prove himself and his quality in a team who will (hopefully) be on the front foot, suit his way of playing and give him a position in the starting eleven that is his to lose. If we don''t go up this season and he carries on developing, the move to newcastle will still be there and he might be a first choice starter then, and probably at a larger fee for us. If we do go up - maybe he won''t want to leave, and even if he does, it will certainly be for a larger fee. Now that is the win - win situation for everyone involved which I hope everyone at ncfc could get behind, including murphy himself.

Do you seriously think this young man is not considering his own financial position rather than footballing position! He will be made for life if this goes through. And there is no guarantee he will be worth anywhere near the current valuation next season![/quote]

This is a classic example of the short term thinking young footballers get sucked into. This guy is a good enough footballer so that he doesn''t need to jump at the first big contract to come his way. At this stage ALL he should be thinking about is his ''footballing position'' and on improving his game. If he does that and works hard enough the money will undoubtedly come. So many youngsters go for the big bucks straight away, stall their progress, and then lose out on money over the course of a career. Of course there are never any guarantees in life, but you can''t live life in fear of tomorrow.

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Yes but they have different skill sets, it''s not like you sell Jacob and Josh just does all the stuff he can do.

I agree Josh could be the better player. I''d much rather keep both of them though as they do different things.

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@peteabee

Id agree with you if we were talking about him moving to a team like Liverpool or Spurs where he''d be unlikely to start. But a move to a newly promoted team like Newcastle would actually be pretty sensible for him - playing at the top level in a team where he''ll probably get games. Don''t see it being the kind of move to stall his development.

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[quote user="king canary"]I do wonder if those who say ''we can sell him as we have Josh'' actually watching him them very much- they are quite different players.[/quote]

Completely agree. And their games even intermesh really well as shown by their time in the youth team. Plus that understanding of each others game is such an asset in the final third. Why have one when you can have both is what I say!

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Parma Ham''s gone mouldy wrote the following post at 15/07/2017 12:20 PM:

Losing Jacob the jewel in the crown would be a total disaster.

If only we had someone a bit like him. Then we could take the money, prepare for the future and not need to go through revolution again at the end of next season as well.

Parma

If Josh Murphy has a season like his brother has just had then he will be sold to the first bidder that flashes a bit of cash.

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To let either go, just as they are coming good after all the effort we''ve put in with their development, would be a catastrophic mistake.This a akin to selling the family silver.

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Making Plans wrote the following post at 15/07/2017 1:38 PM:

To let either go, just as they are coming good after all the effort we''ve put in with their development, would be a catastrophic mistake.

This a akin to selling the family silver.

Exactly. And what appears to be worse is that not only that but we seem to be jumping through hoops to Newcastles demands. They give us a take it or leave it offer and we seem to fold. Here''s an idea, leave it and tell the player that the offer doesn''t meet the clubs valuation of him in this ridiculous transfer market. Huddersfield rejected offers for their best player last season and guess what? They got promoted. Heaven forbid we have any desire to do the same in what is our last realistic chance of doing so.

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[quote user="JF"]Making Plans wrote the following post at 15/07/2017 1:38 PM:

To let either go, just as they are coming good after all the effort we''ve put in with their development, would be a catastrophic mistake.

This a akin to selling the family silver.

Exactly. And what appears to be worse is that not only that but we seem to be jumping through hoops to Newcastles demands. They give us a take it or leave it offer and we seem to fold. Here''s an idea, leave it and tell the player that the offer doesn''t meet the clubs valuation of him in this ridiculous transfer market. Huddersfield rejected offers for their best player last season and guess what? They got promoted. Heaven forbid we have any desire to do the same in what is our last realistic chance of doing so.[/quote]Are we? Have we?

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Are we? Have we?

We will see but As I said we seem to have. If the reports that we have accepted £10 million with £2 million more in add ons are true then in today''s market we have under valued the player. What do you think Murphy will be worth in the January market if he continues to perform??

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[quote user="king canary"]@peteabee

Id agree with you if we were talking about him moving to a team like Liverpool or Spurs where he''d be unlikely to start. But a move to a newly promoted team like Newcastle would actually be pretty sensible for him - playing at the top level in a team where he''ll probably get games. Don''t see it being the kind of move to stall his development.[/quote]

I can see your point. If he was to move to a prem team right now, Newcastle are not a bad option. He will likely have to displace Ritchie or Atsu from the wings depending on how they line up, but that is not unimaginable. However a team starting the season looking over their shoulder at the relegation zone, which Newcastle and about half the prem will be doing is not always a great environment for a young player to learn his craft! He blew a little hot and cold for us even in the championship, if he starts doing that in the prem and Newcastle are lower down the table he might not be given that much time. If he had the confidence and experience of learning how to really tear it up CONSISTENTLY in the championship, then that would be an even better platform to make a move in my opinion. Then he might be automatic first choice and wouldn''t be in a position of learning on the job quite as much. I think a move now for him is a calculated gamble, and one with not too much room for failure - he has to hit the ground running and he might not have all the tools to do that just yet. A move next season is just a safer long term bet on his career I think.

(All said with my NCFC hat firmly in position! He''ll probably move and crush it )

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"Seem". Nothing but rumours at the moment. Let''s wait until something concrete comes along before we start criticising the club.

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Herman wrote the following post at 15/07/2017 2:18 PM:

"Seem". Nothing but rumours at the moment. Let''s wait until something concrete comes along before we start criticising the club.

That''s why I said seem. All transfers are rumours until they are announced.

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[quote user="Lynn Canary"]Didnt Jacob only return to training yesterday ? If so, then im not surprised he isnt involved today.[/quote]That is what Webber said Thursday evening at the forum and went on to say they were looking forward to seeing him.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="Lynn Canary"]Didnt Jacob only return to training yesterday ? If so, then im not surprised he isnt involved today.[/quote]That is what Webber said Thursday evening at the forum and went on to say they were looking forward to seeing him.[/quote]I still don''t think Webber was being entirely honest (not that he has to be, of course). When he was asked if Jacob had requested to leave the club, he said he didn''t know as he was still on leave. Jacob was tweeting from the Lowestoft game last Saturday, so it''s not like he''s been totally out of radio contact with the club. I''m pretty sure his agent will have been trying to engineer a move behind the scenes.

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It costs the club £3.25M per annum to maintain a Cat 1 academy capable of producing youngsters good enough to have at least a chance of forging a career in football. Unless the academy at least pays for itself, it becomes a drain on resources and takes money from the football budget. People should stop being so precious about a deal which makes sense for both player and club. This forum is constantly complaining about decisions based on sentiment rather than logic, but when Webber cuts through the former and applies the latter, there''s no end of squealing. 

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I detect that the "logic" might be that this is not the right time for such a sale, either for the player or our club and that perhaps Newcastle need to up their offer in any case.

No doubting that we will sell him on at some stage but it makes sense to maximise our asset whilst we can. This involves helping Norwich City to greater success this coming season whilst he also achieves full asking price.

It''s a balance.

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westcoastcanary wrote the following post at 15/07/2017 2:33 PM:

It costs the club £3.25M per annum to maintain a Cat 1 academy capable of producing youngsters good enough to have at least a chance of forging a career in football. Unless the academy at least pays for itself, it becomes a drain on resources and takes money from the football budget. People should stop being so precious about a deal which makes sense for both player and club. This forum is constantly complaining about decisions based on sentiment rather than logic, but when Webber cuts through the former and applies the latter, there''s no end of squealing.

You''re right. It makes perfect sense to sell our best players and by doing so limit our chances of promotion.....

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Yes, it''s a balance, and getting the balance right relies on well-informed judgement about e.g. just how much help Jacob is likely to actually be when it comes to the club achieving "greater success" this season. The best placed people to make that call and assess the balance generally are Webber & Farke. 

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[quote user="westcoastcanary"]It costs the club £3.25M per annum to maintain a Cat 1 academy capable of producing youngsters good enough to have at least a chance of forging a career in football. Unless the academy at least pays for itself, it becomes a drain on resources and takes money from the football budget. People should stop being so precious about a deal which makes sense for both player and club. This forum is constantly complaining about decisions based on sentiment rather than logic, but when Webber cuts through the former and applies the latter, there''s no end of squealing. [/quote]

If that''s the case of what it costs then it''s not worth doing, especially considering the amount of decent players we''ve had play for the first team. Jack it in and put the budget to the first team. We''ve hardly reaped the benefit of Jacob if he''s sold, one full season, surely if we''ve invested the money in bringing him through the academy To sell defeats the object. All we''re doing is developing players for other teams at our expense, what''s the point

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Ultimately I think everyone is coming around to the idea that money talks.

It''s unfortunate, as most people have said, if he progresses this summer like he did last, he could be a top, top player at this level and have a go at PL football with us.

I also think, given how outraged were at the jeers he got earlier in the season, it''s funny how much worse the ''We Need To Be Entertained'' crowd up north do in that regard.

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Westcoastcanary, it seems to me JF thinks (s)he is the best placed to make these decisions rather than those at the club.

The fact is, the supposed take it or leave it offer of straight £10m was turned down; this was after an initial offer of £8m. We don''t know if we''ve accepted an updated offer yet, but have clearly not ''folded'' in anyway at the first sign of a bid - it seems to me it''s currently worth £4m more than the opening offer.

As to the sense of it - the offer of PL is just too big a pull for players, it is hard to stand in their way. We are certainly not short on that part of the pitch and Jacob did often flatter to deceive last season, cashing in may not be bad business if we get to reinvest.

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@mickdundee
Unless the academy does start producing more than it has so far, the answer may well be that it isn''t worth it. But it can never be just a question of producing players for our own first team; it''s a matter of generating football income more generally. 

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