J Murphy to be sold .....

[westcoastcanary 173]

@Branston

[Y]

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

Players who had come up through a youth set always got referred to as having cost a club nothing, compared with expensive purchases. So way back a tabloid took a look at the Arsenal youth system, to see how much such a player really cost, based on the expenses of running such a set-up.The paper followed an intake of something like two dozen of 15-year-olds through until they were 20 or 21 or whatever. Most fell by the wayside. A couple had been sold to lower leagues sides, for small amounts. One was the Arsenal reserve goalkeeper. And one was a first-team regular.But that was Charlie George. Although, as the paper showed by adding up the costs over those several years, he had actually cost a great deal of money. But against that, he was an Arsenal player. If they hadn''t had such a youth set-up he would, being a north Londoner, have been developed by Spurs (or perhaps West Ham) and ended up scoring goals against Arsenal.

[Horse Renoir 1]

16 million or do one, quite simple. Murphy would ruin his career by sulking or refusing to play, if he doesn''t develop in the next few years he''ll be stuck as a championship player, with his contract we hold literally every card.

They have the money, their manager is desperate to get him, just pay the money!

[City 2nd 191]

Peateabee wrote:

This is a classic example of the short term thinking young footballers get sucked into. This guy is a good enough footballer so that he doesn''t need to jump at the first big contract to come his way. At this stage ALL he should be thinking about is his ''footballing position'' and on improving his game. If he does that and works hard enough the money will undoubtedly come. So many youngsters go for the big bucks straight away, stall their progress, and then lose out on money over the course of a career. Of course there are never any guarantees in life, but you can''t live life in fear of tomorrow.

I wouldn''t disagree with you Pbee, but in these days of agents seeking their own fortunes, the first big contract that does come along usually isn''t turned down. They were quick enough to line their pockets last November when the four year NCFC contract was dished out, and barely six months later they are looking for more, And he will get it, and take it from NUFC. I''m surprised at the lack of loyalty that Jacob is showing the club and its supporters! I hope for his sake he doesn''t fall by the wayside like others before him. There will be no hiding place at Newcastle. He will be expected to deliver immediately, and he has much to learn about the game if you ask me!

[Essjayess 307]

Lot of emotional sentiments on here regarding Jacob and yes hes a super little player. But end of the day, nothing we say or think has any meaning to, or for a young lad like Jacob. This is not about NCFC, or NUFC, or you or i, its about Jacob and his future. A young man, as most young men would, is offered the chance to earn money that will set him up for the rest of life, would be most unlikely to turn down such an offer. Its as simple as that, and it is what hes choosing. Wish him well  up there, will miss him, but  i support NCFC, no matter who joins us or leaves us.12 million for Jacob is seriously good money, it is higher than Redmonds  and about equals Brady''s. Well done City for getting 12, not 8 million, lets see what Webber can do with that.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Essjayess"]Lot of emotional sentiments on here regarding Jacob and yes hes a super little player. But end of the day, nothing we say or think has any meaning to, or for a young lad like Jacob. This is not about NCFC, or NUFC, or you or i, its about Jacob and his future. A young man, as most young men would, is offered the chance to earn money that will set him up for the rest of life, would be most unlikely to turn down such an offer. Its as simple as that, and it is what hes choosing. Wish him well  up there, will miss him, but  i support NCFC, no matter who joins us or leaves us.12 million for Jacob is seriously good money, it is higher than Redmonds  and about equals Brady''s. Well done City for getting 12, not 8 million, lets see what Webber can do with that.[/quote]

You speak as if this is a done deal. Is it a done deal though?  All I''ve seen is stuff that has come from Newcastle, known for their pushy transfer tactics.

[Essjayess 307]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Essjayess"]Lot of emotional sentiments on here regarding Jacob and yes hes a super little player. But end of the day, nothing we say or think has any meaning to, or for a young lad like Jacob. This is not about NCFC, or NUFC, or you or i, its about Jacob and his future. A young man, as most young men would, is offered the chance to earn money that will set him up for the rest of life, would be most unlikely to turn down such an offer. Its as simple as that, and it is what hes choosing. Wish him well  up there, will miss him, but  i support NCFC, no matter who joins us or leaves us.12 million for Jacob is seriously good money, it is higher than Redmonds  and about equals Brady''s. Well done City for getting 12, not 8 million, lets see what Webber can do with that.[/quote]

You speak as if this is a done deal. Is it a done deal though?  All I''ve seen is stuff that has come from Newcastle, known for their pushy transfer tactics.

[/quote]Of course its not official yet, but yes i am speaking  on the likelihood that it is happening today, tonight, or this weekend. Speaking as i did, not at a done deal, but in the  scenario of a young lad being offered a huge oppurtunity in his life, very few of which would turn down. Lakey, if you prefer me to say instead "Wish him well up there, if that is what he chooses, will miss him if he does", then ok , ive just said it.

[Highland Canary 76]

With the money sloshing around the PL £12m is mere drop in the ocean for Newcastle. Makes the Redmond sale look ever more like the bargain of the century for Southampton. What a joke.

[Tired 102]

Farke "thoroughly expects" Jacob to go with them to Germany.

[Essjayess 307]

Sorry Highland, that is not so. May be a mountain of money sloshing around the Prem, and yes Newcastle, in terms of finances, are in a different league to City, but 12 million for that club, to spend on an untried and untested young lad in the Prem, is  not the usual way. A manager with the calibre and charisma  such as Rafa had to pull a lot of wobblys in the last week or so to untie Ashleys purse strings, and they  will have to do this a few more times yet before end of August.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Jacob is a good, modern player who has attributes that could take him to a good career at Premier League level.

That he has such attributes means he should have the mindset to make the most of such talents and strive to play at the highest level.

As Ricardo has gently and repeatedly observed, it is hard to make an empirical case for NCFC to be improving as a prospect in cold, League position or ''market share'' terms compared to other clubs. Our restructuring is welcome and esoterically positive, though the logical assessment is that we are reducing costs and trying to now achieve more with less. It may work elegantly, if may be a good template for future sustainable growth. On paper selling tried Premier players and buying lower league ''gems'' is unlikely to see immediate improvement, indeed hunger and desire are only often romantically superior to talent. Just because you sweat a lot at the local park does not make you George Best I''m afraid, however much you want to be him.

We have made our financial gamble, we had our ambitious vault. This is the price. And now is the time to pay it.

Selling Jacob has a number of mitigating factors:

1. We have a lot of 3/4 players. Lots of our better players are in (approx) this position: Naismith, Hoolahan, Pritchard, Josh Murphy, Maddison, Wildschut

2. Josh is a penetrative runner from deep, that can dribble and go in behind. We cannot afford to have such good players not developing and they must therefore play. Josh is the perfect, instant replacement at zero cost. If anything he is more of a central runner and auxiliary striker, which is perfect for us moving forwards.

3. Wide players are a bit of a liability under a disciplined structure. Jacob has things to learn tactically, he is not the finished article. Playing him as a second / wide striker (as advised for Redmond) would be a brave move by Newcastle. Playing him as a wide midfielder at the top level in a few weeks would be even braver.

4. Personally as a coach, if I am faced with a tricky set of circumstances, I like to get the majority of the pain out of the way and trust my abilities to develop, mould, improve and educate players into powerful, effective playing and neurologically repeating patterns on the pitch. To this effect in the current circumstances, I would be wary of building around key elements that I may be forced to lose in due course in any case.

Many of you will disagree, it next year the squad hedge trimming will be radical surgery compared to what we see now.

Thus: if selling Jacob now - not ideal, but not disastrous for reasons outlined above - provides the kind of financial ballast without disastrous consequences to the playing resources (replacing Oliveira would be far harder at this moment in time in my view), meaning that there is a stability going forward, that the players I have I can be reasonably confident can be retained on an ongoing basis and built around, then it is a price worth paying.

It is very likely a price that will have to be paid in due course in any case. The money is here now, for a replaceable asset that may or may be worth the high price and which amortises more dramatic pain (not far) down the line.

Parma

[Jack Flash 13]

Bit of light relief have a look here at Football Whispers stats and value for Jacob - http://www.footballwhispers.com/players/jacob-murphy

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

A further factor is indeed the status and perceived value of the Academy (remember there might well be an unseen cost to not having an Academy in who you might not be able to attract, both players and coaches):

£10m cash plus add ons would be a significant vindication of the principle of maintaining a (now very) expensive Academy. The principle behind its existence established, with clear, proven pathways for all dream real dreams of, beyond the (currently somewhat) theoretical.

Parma

[Icecream Snow 761]

It''s interesting comparing him to Nathan Redmond. Redmond''s a year older, yet when we sold him last year he''d played 170 games at Championship/Premiership level by the age of 22, and had two seasons in the Premiership. So the 10-12 million we reportedly got for him was a pretty fair price. He couldn''t really go any further with us.Jacob''s had one season in the Championship, and is now 22, the same age as Redmond when he left. His late blooming makes it difficult to persuade him to get another year with us to develop further, especially when his England peers are playing premiership football. He''s clearly got more potential, and could end up be a £20-25 million player, but will he get the game time to do it?If it wasn''t for the crazy Premiership prices, £10 million arguably wouldn''t be a bad price. He''ll be off for £12-13 million and hopefully we can reinvest that in some serious quality.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

Farke "thoroughly expects" Jacob to go with them to Germany.

that could mean hurry up Newcastle stop messing around !

[Discobolus 11]

I have read a couple of posts which state that moving to Newcastle will set him up for life, he proberly is earning at least 10 thousand a week at Norwich , 1/2 a million a year would be a good start to setting me up for life. He will earn more money at Newcastle and if he is determined to go eventually he will get his way, what''s the point of keeping a player who doesn''t want to be at Norwich, Crystal Palace are the only other team to show any interest, but he apparently wants Newcastle, if 12 million is on the table and 10 is up front take it.

[crispeduk 282]

Agreed norfolkngood, so perhaps it’s time ‘to send’ Jacob’s agent back to Sid James Park and tell them to stop ''dragging their heels'', make a proper offer or do one. Club and player can expect to have plenty of better offers to accept or reject in the future (what about Everton for example?) - can sympathise with their manager but it''s not our problem Rafa has to deal with Ashley''s cronies.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

maybe now with pritch crocked for a few weeks we will tell them to do one until Jan at least.

might be worth going the Suarez route and telling Murphy he can go for £10m next season if we are still down here. seems silly to have such a big sell off while the parachute money is here, we''ve made a lot of savings as it is the last year with brady, Olsson, howson and all them big wage lumps like mulumbu leaving. Still cant believe we spent £7m on wildschut when we have so many options on the wing as it is. is he really any better than Josh Murphy for example?

[lake district canary 4,531]

All the pressure/hype is coming from the Newcastle publicity machine.  Jacob this, Jacob that, Norwich this, Norwich that, Jacob''s agent this, Jacob''s agent  that.  Newcastle can make asmuch noise as they want, but we are not under pressure. All the club has to do is wait until they get their valuation.

[Bill 1,788]

Still cant believe we spent £7m on wildschut

we didn''t

[hogesar 9,618]

No. We still spent about 4m and reckon if we do get promoted will be more like 6m. So the point probably still stands .

Although wildshut is getting some decent pre season game time so maybe he''ll be more involved than we think.

[Bill 1,788]

it does appear as if Farke is looking for fast paced wingbacks, rather than simple full backsI would agree about Wilschutt, I think he will feature quite a bit, though it will often be about who the opposition is in a particular gamehe doesn''t seem to be being used as an out and out winger

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

Tbh Yanic was not really given that much of a chance - we needed him to hit the ground running and he sadly didn''t manage to deliver - but signing when injured barely helped on that score. If he does play well and we do get promoted, then the extra we have to pay for him will look like peanuts.

[westcoastcanary 173]

"He [Wildschut] doesn''t seem to be being used as an out and out winger"

What is "an out and out winger"? You mean the likes of Bill Punton and Gerry Mannion? As far as I can see they''re only, if at all, found at youth level nowadays, and with the emphasis on continuity between youth and senior styles of play they''ll soon have disappeared entirely from the game. Can''t we stop categorising players in such anachronistic terms? It''s seriously unhelpful when trying to understand the modern game. 

For comparison see Parma''s ruminations (above) on what "brave" use Benitez might be planning to make of Jacob M if he ends up in a Newcastle shirt. 

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Newcastle have done little or no business to date and the fans are restless. Murphy may be a point of principle for Benitez and if he doesn''t get him he could walk which puts us in a strong position. £12m or more I would let him go and put the cash to better use elsewhere in the squad and give josh his head

[Van wink 2,994]

Best get rid before he''s injured!

[Jack Flash 13]

After the Pritch scare yesterday, I was thinking exactly the same as Van wink.

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

BTW, Parma.

It would be nice to have one of your MCs before the start of the season. What to expect, what to look out for, what will be different under Farke, your expectations for the season?

Any one else would like to see this?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Count me in Rocko ☺

[westcoastcanary 0]

I think we are going to need several; after all, some of us still hanker after wingers (remember them) and "old-fashioned centre backs" (the sort that simply put the boot through the ball whenever it is within kicking distance)  [:D]