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Atmosphere @ CR - Lessons from Germany

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I know there was a thread recently about improving the atmosphere but I can''t find it and in any case I would be interested in more/new opinions.

I have been going to CR for the better part of 30 years and whilst I have spent most of my time in Block E of the lower Barclay I have sat in all four stands. The atmosphere has always been dependent upon the Barclay and more recently the snake pit with the other stands being largely low key. Sometimes the level of quiet in the ground borders on embarrassing.

However there have been times when the whole ground has been jumping so

1, what can be done to replicate it?

2, can we draw lessons from Germany where the atmosphere is loud, colourful and persistent?

3, how do we take ideas from the message board to the ground?

A bugbear of mine is the speed and frequency with which everyone sings OTBC. It seems like a race to the end - hurrah we''ve scored a goal, the City...has been abbreviated to hurrah we''ve scored, City in the seeming rush to get it finished. It should be slow, deliberate, anthemic - listen to St Andrew''s (no, I''m not saying they have a better atmos/fans etc) sing Keep Right On. I don''t know how you turn the tanker around but it would have so much more resonance if we did.

Could we have certain fan groups orchestrating in each stand? Could the club do more? Having been to Selhurst Park 10+ times it isn''t until recently that the atmosphere there stood out. What did they do to change it? Thoughts?

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Allowing standing and drinking beer while watching the match are large contributors to good atmosphere in Germany.

Although like in England, there is a real mix of atmospheres across different clubs - not everywhere is jumping like Dortmund. Bayern for example can be very quiet - as like many Premier League grounds there will be a large % of ''neutrals'' in the stadium who are there for the experience.

The way to improve the atmosphere at Norwich is for fan groups to get together and organise things more. These things are very hard to start without some organisation. A singing section would be a good start, but that needs the club to buy in and I''m not really sure how you make people who don''t want to sing sit elsewhere.

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There''s an interesting article here about Palace''s ''fanatics''

http://www.ultrasuk.co.uk/spotlight-crystal-palace-ultras/

The club does benefit from their noise - and in return turns a blind eye to their standing; it also helps them get blocks of tickets for away games. I guess the problem is where they''d go at CR given the ground is full ( you''d have to move others) and you have to be careful not to let them get too big for their boots (see the bit about a couple of supporters being banned) and ''upsetting'' others.

Ultimately I think we all want a decent atmosphere, so whatever can be done to help out would be good

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There was a storm developing on twitter last night about whether people who stand in the Barclay E block and don''t sing should move somewhere else to make way for people who want to sing.

I can see both sides of the argument, if you''ve been in the Barclay for years with the same group of friends and dont want to sing why should you have to move, on the other hand a noisey atmosphere helps the team, though when we play good exciting football the atmosphere takes cares of itself.

What do you think?

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As long as you''ve paid for your seat, it''s up to you, within reason, what you do during the match.

If you want to sing, then do so, but if you don''t, that doesn''t make you any less of a fan/supporter does it?

Like you Diane I can see both sides, but would hate for people to be moved because they aren''t singing.

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At Parma there was a tannoy system rigged up and a song leader used a connected microphone to initiate and direct songs.

Whilst this may look on the surface a PR risk, it was self-policed successfully. Any inappropriate use would have resulted in its removal and the club tacitly liaised regarding content and usage.

In actual fact it encouraged two-way communication on a number of issues resulting in far better atmosphere (vid distribution of songs sheets) and indeed the ''amortisation'' of any extreme characters or behaviours.

Parma

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Just remembered the Watford mascot ''Harry the hornet'' got the atmosphere going with us drum a couple of seasons ago.

He certainly engaged with the crowd, both home and away supporters.

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Just re: the Block E thing, presumably one of the reasons why people initially went there was because it was where the better atmosphere was, but if they don''t in turn help out by making noise, it eventually peters out; they themselves are altering the dynamic of the place. It may partly be an age thing - I used to stand in the main Barclay but now in my 40s am more than happy to join in but less inclined to jump about for the entire game; I retired gracefully to the upper tier a number of years ago.

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I am not so sure about a lack of atmosphere in the river end upper

I tend to spend the full 90 minutes moaning and bitching and getting quite animated responses from those happy clappers around me

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[quote user="Captain Birdseye"]I am not so sure about a lack of atmosphere in the river end upper

I tend to spend the full 90 minutes moaning and bitching and getting quite animated responses from those happy clappers around me[/quote]

Hiatus....my a**e!

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[quote user="Greavsy"]Just remembered the Watford mascot ''Harry the hornet'' got the atmosphere going with us drum a couple of seasons ago.

He certainly engaged with the crowd, both home and away supporters.[/quote]

Please, please no drum, does my head in. If there is one on a televised game I turn the sound off !

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I like the drum idea. Every game I''ve been to with them it helps atmosphere, starts songs and sets the pace of them pretty well.

Probably wouldn''t want to sit next to it mind.

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I think that with our set of home supporters trying to engineer a more vibrant atmosphere is futile.

If the football is successful Carrow Road will be noisy. If not ... forget it!

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I agree with Bethnal in so far as safe standing and drinking in the stands are key reasons for the better atmosphere in many German grounds.

Seeing as both are illegal in the UK perhaps a Fan Zone before selected games would be a good compromise.

It''s something I''ve thought about recently and then heard mooted by @AlongComeNodge (great Twitter NCFC fan feed if anyone''s interested). It could easily be installed behind the South Stand at the expense of some parking and would probably only appear for selected matches. But a covered where fans could congregate, drink (sold by the club) start chants, sing (perhaps watch archive footage on screens or roll out a few city legends) would hopefully generate a buzz which would be carried into the ground. I know the club want fans in the ground early but I cant think of ANYTHING that would entice me out of a decent pub much before kick off. At least this way the club would be in control of the setting and hopefully even make a few quid.

Just an idea but it''s something I think would help with the atmosphere if organised properly.

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I think there already is a bottle bar like that at the centre of the South Stand? Singing there could easily incite problems with the away fans who of course also arrive at that part of the ground.

CSF already runs a fan zone at Carrow Park - very child orientated but a lot of fun if you''re under 12!

Personally, I don''t think there''s a lot wrong with the atmosphere. Last season was such a disappointment, so everything went completely flat soon after Christmas when it became very clear we were out of contention for promotion. If we''re in with a shout of anything, the crowd will lift the team, undoubtedly fuelled by the ales imbibed at the pubs in the vicinity of the ground - most of which are very busy pre-match.

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Too many fans have become priced out of the game. Older people have more money so our ground tends to be full of that demographic. Doesn''t matter where I sit it''s just pensioners all around me, plenty are capable and up for making noise, most aren''t though, or frown at you if you try and make some yourself.

Beer is also too expensive/watered down and the pre match music is mostly an unbearable auto tuned racket for teenage girls which has to be less than 1% of our supporter base.

But the biggest issue has been the dire football played under Hughton/Adams/Neil. Fans are sick to the back teeth of watching us capitulate and be humiliated, fail to do the basics right, get routinely out worked and out fought in games, failing to concentrate while defending, not turning up for certain games etc. The atmosphere has declined mostly because we haven''t had a team to be proud of for a while. Why should we bother if the team isn''t up for it either?

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Like the idea of removing all the seats and replacing with Pews to create a Church like atmosphere with a different vicar at each home game leading the singing of battle like hymns.

Onward Christian Soldiers or if we are losing at half time Delia lead with a rendition of Come all ye Faithful whilst swigging on a bottle Harvey''s best sherry

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Captain Birdseye wrote the following post at 27/07/2017 10:45 AM:

"I am not so sure about a lack of atmosphere in the river end upper

I tend to spend the full 90 minutes moaning and bitching and getting quite animated responses from those happy clappers around me "

Well you''ve certainly got a big mouth on here, put it to some good use in the ground and get singing, that''s if you actually attend any matches 😘

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The ironic thing is that there were some incredibly entertaining home games last season: 3-0 Derby, 5-0 Forest, 7-1 Reading; and we were only really turned over by Huddersfield and Fulham. The away performances were so dire by comparison - which was again ironic, given how well we had performed away from home in AN''s promotion season. I really hope we see an improvement there.

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Like the comment that the old people have all the money and the young ones are priced out.

Go to Wetherspoons or Mercy Fri/Sat nights and see the money being spent

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[quote user="Greavsy"]As long as you''ve paid for your seat, it''s up to you, within reason, what you do during the match.[/quote]It''s not that straightforward though is it Greavsy?If the people in front of me stand up, then whilst I of course can remain seated, I won''t then be able to see anything that''s going on, thus by proxy you are often forced to stand regardless of whether or not you want to because of those in front of you.Similarly, it''s hard to focus on the game if you''ve got some complete clown either shouting garbage every 10 seconds at any player they feel like, or doing the worst, out of tune, karaoke version possible of "On the ball city" in your lughole.This, along with the financial cost of attending games are the key reasons why I don''t get to many matches and why I tend to prefer watching on the TV instead. Yes, I lose out on the atmosphere which can be electric at times, but I''m also comfortable, can get a drink whenever I want, can usually see far more of the action (and more clearly) and don''t have to put up with any of the other stuff I''m not keen on that comes with the territory of attending.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Greavsy"]As long as you''ve paid for your seat, it''s up to you, within reason, what you do during the match.[/quote]It''s not that straightforward though is it Greavsy?If the people in front of me stand up, then whilst I of course can remain seated, I won''t then be able to see anything that''s going on, thus by proxy you are often forced to stand regardless of whether or not you want to because of those in front of you. Similarly, it''s hard to focus on the game if you''ve got some complete clown either shouting garbage every 10 seconds at any player they feel like, or doing the worst, out of tune, karaoke version possible of "On the ball city" in your lughole.   This, along with the financial cost of attending games are the key reasons why I don''t get to many matches and why I tend to prefer watching on the TV instead. Yes, I lose out on the atmosphere which can be electric at times, but I''m also comfortable, can get a drink whenever I want, can usually see far more of the action (and more clearly) and don''t have to put up with any of the other stuff I''m not keen on that comes with the territory of attending.[/quote]

There is only one way to get the full experience - and that is by attending games.  Don''t get me wrong, I love seeing the team playing on TV or online and savouring some of the action. There is even some credence that you actually see more on a tv than at the match, but there is no substitute for being there. As you say, finances are a factor for people, of course, as distance is a main factor for many exiles, but going to a match is one of the most stimulating  things about being a football supporter.   I can understand that people who are unable to get to matches are happy to watch on the box, but to prefer it?  

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Greavsy"]As long as you''ve paid for your seat, it''s up to you, within reason, what you do during the match.[/quote]It''s not that straightforward though is it Greavsy?If the people in front of me stand up, then whilst I of course can remain seated, I won''t then be able to see anything that''s going on, thus by proxy you are often forced to stand regardless of whether or not you want to because of those in front of you.Similarly, it''s hard to focus on the game if you''ve got some complete clown either shouting garbage every 10 seconds at any player they feel like, or doing the worst, out of tune, karaoke version possible of "On the ball city" in your lughole.This, along with the financial cost of attending games are the key reasons why I don''t get to many matches and why I tend to prefer watching on the TV instead. Yes, I lose out on the atmosphere which can be electric at times, but I''m also comfortable, can get a drink whenever I want, can usually see far more of the action (and more clearly) and don''t have to put up with any of the other stuff I''m not keen on that comes with the territory of attending.[/quote]

You get better access to the statistics from the comfort of your armchair too, eh Indy?

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Greavsy"]As long as you''ve paid for your seat, it''s up to you, within reason, what you do during the match.[/quote]It''s not that straightforward though is it Greavsy?If the people in front of me stand up, then whilst I of course can remain seated, I won''t then be able to see anything that''s going on, thus by proxy you are often forced to stand regardless of whether or not you want to because of those in front of you.Similarly, it''s hard to focus on the game if you''ve got some complete clown either shouting garbage every 10 seconds at any player they feel like, or doing the worst, out of tune, karaoke version possible of "On the ball city" in your lughole.This, along with the financial cost of attending games are the key reasons why I don''t get to many matches and why I tend to prefer watching on the TV instead. Yes, I lose out on the atmosphere which can be electric at times, but I''m also comfortable, can get a drink whenever I want, can usually see far more of the action (and more clearly) and don''t have to put up with any of the other stuff I''m not keen on that comes with the territory of attending.[/quote]
Sorry, but the feeling of being at a football match rather than sitting watching at home is incomparable. 

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Greavsy"]As long as you''ve paid for your seat, it''s up to you, within reason, what you do during the match.[/quote]It''s not that straightforward though is it Greavsy?If the people in front of me stand up, then whilst I of course can remain seated, I won''t then be able to see anything that''s going on, thus by proxy you are often forced to stand regardless of whether or not you want to because of those in front of you. Similarly, it''s hard to focus on the game if you''ve got some complete clown either shouting garbage every 10 seconds at any player they feel like, or doing the worst, out of tune, karaoke version possible of "On the ball city" in your lughole.   This, along with the financial cost of attending games are the key reasons why I don''t get to many matches and why I tend to prefer watching on the TV instead. Yes, I lose out on the atmosphere which can be electric at times, but I''m also comfortable, can get a drink whenever I want, can usually see far more of the action (and more clearly) and don''t have to put up with any of the other stuff I''m not keen on that comes with the territory of attending.[/quote]

There is only one way to get the full experience - and that is by attending games.  Don''t get me wrong, I love seeing the team playing on TV or online and savouring some of the action. There is even some credence that you actually see more on a tv than at the match, but there is no substitute for being there. As you say, finances are a factor for people, of course, as distance is a main factor for many exiles, but going to a match is one of the most stimulating  things about being a football supporter.   I can understand that people who are unable to get to matches are happy to watch on the box, but to prefer it?  

[/quote]
Jesus christ I agree with LDC again.

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I''d really question the idea you can see more of the action watching on TV. You can only see what the camera shows you so if you''re interested in the positioning of certain players, reactions to events, runs made off the ball etc you can see far more at the ground.

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[quote user="king canary"]I''d really question the idea you can see more of the action watching on TV. You can only see what the camera shows you so if you''re interested in the positioning of certain players, reactions to events, runs made off the ball etc you can see far more at the ground.[/quote]
Spot on Kingo. You only see what you''re shown. 

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