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Dean Coneys boots

Groundhog Day...

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The more things change, the more they stay the same.

So many new players yet we still look good in attack, silky for spells with possession but woeful at defending basic set pieces...

Why? A failure to buy improvement at CB? The style and tactics we adopt? The new coaches haven''t had time?

Two games down and looks so much like last season in terms of attacking threat yet fragile defence...roll on Sunday...

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Because it''s basically a brand new defence. If it doesn''t improve over the coming months then yes, complain all you like.

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I suspect it is a combination of a new back line and players new to the english game.

Based only on the fulham game admittedly but Zimmerman and Franke both looked an upgrade on last seasons CBs, that does not mean no mistakes along the way.

With more pitch time together I am sure that will improve.

I would like to see some more solidity from DCM though.

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Dean Coney''s boots"

I think you need to work out the difference between questioning and complaining - especially on a debating forum

I feel it was an answer to your third question. In a roundabout way.

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Our CB''s look like an improvement on those that have left and watching them with the ball last night I didn''t get the foreboding of an imminent mistake.

I was surprised at the way we conceded both goals, organisation did look poor but that is something that can be analysed an worked on in training. As individuals I think they are both far more competent.

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I personally think a lot of the goals from set pieces are down to zonal marking. We used this system under Neil and appear to be using it again this season. For their first goal, the scorer appeared to be in Murphy''s zone and that was only ever going to end one way. I honestly don''t see how zonal marking can ever work and it seems to give the advantage to the attacker. But then, I''m not a manager!

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Not seen the goals back so don''t know who''s man it was but Zimmerman seems to struggle getting off the ground for his headers. Still think him and Franke are an improvement on Martin and Klose though. I''m a bit concerned by Reed sitting in front. Offers zero protection although always shows for the ball. I''d prefer to have a proper defensive midfielder in there especially if we already have Wes and Maddison who are always showing for the ball off the defence. Maybe Steipermann is earmarked for that role.

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That''s also spot on Vlad. Reed is neat and tidy on the ball but from what I''ve seen in the first 2 matches is that we''re far too open defensively. The 2 centre backs have been regularly exposed.

I''d say we either need to sign a solid midfield enforcer, stop the full backs bombing on quite so much or play a much less attackkng midfield. Or just stick with it and expect to see a lot of goals!

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Just seen the goals back. Looks like Murphys man ran off him for the first and for the second their man got in between reed and Martin for a free header. With Reed, Maddison, Wes and Murphy all on the pitch you can see why we struggled at set pieces.

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Both goals were both poor defending - but a win is a win and 2 games into a new season with a revolutionized squad it is to be expected there will be a few teething problems.

The first one was awful defending, given how we probably should have scored once or twice before that - the second I seriously question young Gunn''s positioning as it seemed rather odd at the time. I''m also not sure why Reed, who isn''t exactly that tall, was left marking their goalscorer!

Anyhow, best these things happen in the cup than the league. We can look back at the footage and work on it. I think the difference this time around is that you genuinely feel Farke won''t stand for it and will make changes as necessary. We need a bit of cut-throatness

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vlad666,

You saw, "Just seen the goals back. Looks like Murphy''s man ran off him for the first and for the second their man got in between reed and Martin for a free header."

Hardly surprising their man got in between Reed and Martin, Martin was sat on the bench!!

Maybe not you vlad666, but for some any stick to beat him with.

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He may have been on the bench Ray but that doesn''t exonerate him. Far from it! Two goals from identical free kicks, both headers, and both in the zone Martin should have been. Sitting on the bench in those circumstances is not even just negligence it''s nigh on criminal. And don''t get me started on the captaincy issue. Waving arms and getting all pointy while on the bench snivelling around the head coach. The mans a liability...

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[quote user="Clint"]I personally think a lot of the goals from set pieces are down to zonal marking. We used this system under Neil and appear to be using it again this season. For their first goal, the scorer appeared to be in Murphy''s zone and that was only ever going to end one way. I honestly don''t see how zonal marking can ever work and it seems to give the advantage to the attacker. But then, I''m not a manager![/quote]How would man to man marking work better? Murphy would still end up having to mark someone. In his comments about signing Marco Stiepermann, Farke specifically referred to his height (6''2"), saying it was something we needed more of in the team. We have a lot of not-so-tall, not too muscular players who have little chance of winning out whether marking zonally or man to man. 

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RAY: My mistake, it was husband not Martin. No axe to grind on any particular player. I call it how I see it.

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And isn''t the advantage always with the attacker at a set piece? The attacking team practice their set piece drills, usually have a specialist delivering the ball (Hussey was excellent last night from the sound of it), and know where the ball is being aimed at. The defending side is always in a position of having to react?

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Hi vlad666,

Got it.

Although this does raise an issue about ''Dominant Thought'', again not saying you, but as human beings we often see what we want to see and if some of our supporters go into a game expecting a player to do x or y, their brain will prove them right, it''s what it is hard wired to do. Obviously the same Dominant Thought applies if they go into a game expecting to see a good overall performance from the team, a good overall performance is what they are more likely to see. Of course we will all see the sublime pass or shot from outside the box or the keeper putting the ball into his own net, etc. etc. but outside of the sublime or the howler we often make other less obvious occurrences fit our own agendas, our own Dominant Thought(s).

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[quote user="vlad666"]Not seen the goals back so don''t know who''s man it was but Zimmerman seems to struggle getting off the ground for his headers. Still think him and Franke are an improvement on Martin and Klose though. I''m a bit concerned by Reed sitting in front. Offers zero protection although always shows for the ball. I''d prefer to have a proper defensive midfielder in there especially if we already have Wes and Maddison who are always showing for the ball off the defence. Maybe Steipermann is earmarked for that role.[/quote]When Klose is fit he will definitely be starting, mark my words! He is very good with the ball at his feet and his distribution is, generally, decent. This fits with Farke''s style and philosophy. Why wouldn''t we be playing a defender who has Champions League experience on his CV too, hey? He did get buffeted about a bit last season by gigantic Championship centre forwards, but hopefully that experience has helped him improve his game at this level. Also, pretty sure Martin will be starting more often than not too. Sorry, Russ haters!!

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Much more to enthuse over rather than worry about from last night. Good that Farke has seen these defensive issues early on in a cup game so that they can be worked on. As others have said so many new players are going to take a while to bed in, and the signs are very encouraging so far.

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West coast, it''s just my opinion, I''ve never seen zonal marking work successfully for any team.

Yes, the advantage is always with the attached but zonal marking seems to give them more of an advantage. If you''re man marking, you stick your best defenders of set pieces with their biggest threats, rather than just marking space and hoping it all works out ok.

Assuming the guy in Murphy''s zone was one of their biggest threats, then Josh really isn''t the guy you want closest to him. However, we can''t possibly know which area he is going to attack prior to the match. Using man marking, he could be identified in advance.

Also with man marking, you have a responsibility to stop an individual and it''s on you if they score. Zonal marking passes up that responsibility to a certain extent. With man marking you would stay tight to your man so even if you don''t stop him, you at least make it more difficult.

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[quote user="Gordon Bennett"]Much more to enthuse over rather than worry about from last night. Good that Farke has seen these defensive issues early on in a cup game so that they can be worked on. As others have said so many new players are going to take a while to bed in, and the signs are very encouraging so far.[/quote]

Its OK saying the defensive issues can be worked on, but do we actually have good enough defensive players? If not, there''s no amount of work that will rectify the problem. And I really don''t expect to see anymore signings.

Perhaps Trybul is that man. But the manor of his signing suggests he''s seen as a back up player.

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Of course what the highlights don''t show is the stupid tackle that led to the free kick on the second goal.The Swindon guy was going nowhere out on the touchline and there was little or no danger.Notwithstanding this, our defender (can''t remember which one) decides to clobber the bloke & give away the totally needless free kick.Stop giving away unecessary free kicks and you don''t need to worry about marking at set pieces.

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Hard to tell Lincoln, could possibly have done better with the first but it''s only his second game so don''t see the point in reading much into it!

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[quote user="hogesar"]Hard to tell Lincoln, could possibly have done better with the first but it''s only his second game so don''t see the point in reading much into it![/quote]

Yeah I thought he could have done better with both TBH, but to balance it out he did make a couple of cracking saves.

Gunn and the defence will come under huge scrutiny over the next few weeks, since its been our Achilles heel for far too long. Like it or not, every performance will be read into.

If we''re serious promotion contenders the new players need to hit the ground running. My gut feeling is that we''ll still concede too many goals to be contenders.

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Time will tell if we have good enough defensive players. What I would say is that the two centre halves looked as assured on the ball as any we have had for a good while.

I think we have to trust the judgement of Webber & Farke and have faith in the signings they have made. Not all of them are likely to come off, same as any other club, but hopefully most of them do.

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Mt thoughts,  for the second goal nearly every attacking Swindon player was standing in an off-side position, just before the ball was played in Norwich dropped back to put them onside, Norwich players should have stayed where they were then the Swindon players would have to backpedal to get onside. Also Swindon were aware of us plying it out short, and at least once got caught out by it, save only by Angus Gunn, there''s nothing wrong with, when being pressed, hoofing it up field.   

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