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Matt Morriss

Naismith & Jerome = Consistent Failure

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Disclaimer: Negative Post Alert

#Not pant wetting

#I only post when we lose

I was extremely positive after the Brighton, Huddersfield and Swindon games, albeit still concerned over the defence.

Very surprised and disappointed after yesterday. Was not expecting that at all.

Two things though, Naismith and Jerome are totally ineffective and I''m sick of watching them. This was a problem in the prem relegation and it still is now. Can''t believe we''re still persisting with these two.

What is Naismith? Attacking midfielder apparently. An attacking midfielder that doesn''t shoot, doesn''t create, doesn''t get in the box and doesn''t score.

Then we have Jerome who unless he is 3 yards from goal when the ball is passed to him won''t get on the score sheet or even threaten.

These two together have proven time and again to be completely ineffective attack wise and pose zero threat to the opposition defence, yet we are still seeing them.

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When did we play Huddersfield? Or were you happy after watching them?

Naismith was far too deep yesterday, almost central midfield which doesn''t suit him, unfortunately Cam has the first touch of a rapist and if we''re gonna play possession football we need better

Also learn how to use a hashtag

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DDD In The Fine City wrote the following post at 14/08/2017 10:25 AM:

Cam has the first touch of a rapist

What a lovely expression, is it a footballing term?

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I don''t mind Jerome and I admire him for his work ethic and professionalism but I do think Nelson should be starting.

I am (I admit unfairly) starting to develop a real dislike of Naismith because of how disastrous a signing he has so far turned out to be and the fact that I feel he is continually brought into the side at the expense of others to the detriment of our overall game. Pritchard and Wes were both left out at various points last season and Maddison was loaned out and I would rather have 2 of those three in the side any day.

I really want him to come good and show last season was a blip but every time he comes in we just seem to get a performance like yesterday and I get even more frustrated with him. I just can''t believe that he''s not capable of better but it never seems to happen.

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That is what bugs me too, at 8 million and the reported 40k a week wage I suppose Naismith is an expensive luxury sitting on the bench or in the reserves our manager can''t afford.

But as above to fit him into the side at the expense of a real game changer like Wes or Pritchard when fit or a Maddison is not the way forward IMO.

If only we could get rid, he''s great at waving those arms and telling everyone what they should be doing, which to some appears as leadership, but true leaders, lead by example not by verbal Bull and arm waving.

He needs to start living up to his huge cost and delivering on the pitch and not just verbal Bull at press conferences.

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I don''t really know what Naismith was supposed to do in that central midfield role. His best games for us have come out wide where he offers decent defensive cover and can then come inside to link up with the striker and central attacking midfielder.

If Farke wants to play football the way he did to say then we really need to be starting Nelson though. Jerome''s close control and first touch is vastly inferior to Nelson''s.

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Like others I wish Naismith would come good, but remember this was his first (competitive) game of the season, with new players/system etc.

Like everything else it''s going to take time.

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Jerome has been a consistent success for us if anything.

Also, I do think Farke is probably slightly aware of Jeromes first touch, being the head coach and all, so there''s probably another reason he''s starting him (one of his multitude of other strengths, I suspect).

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I suspect that the decision to start with Jerome and Watkins might have been influenced slightly by our inability to defend set pieces against Swindon on Tuesday and a concern that Sunderland would be strong in that area. Jerome quite often makes defensive headed clearances from set plays and Watkins is also not bad in the air.

Unfortunately it did not work in an attacking sense though.

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Naismith played well particularly first half yesterday. His movement off the ball is very good and that is a key component of the new strategy. Second half the team lost some control partly because Sunderland adapted having got the undeserved lead.

Jerome will have better games but his powerful running is also key to the strategy and he will score goals. Naismith will score goals too and to write off CJ and AN is just foolish. It didn''t work out yesterday - not because of CJ or SN, but because the defence made a cock up for the first goal giving Sunderland the initiative.

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Jerome''s had a virtual 1 in 2 ratio for the past two seasons he''s played for us at this level, and apparently this now isn''t good enough! I''d fully agree that he can''t cut it in the PL, but in the champs he''s been one of the best strikers over the last few years.Seriously, WTF are some of you smoking FFS???

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lake district canary wrote the following post at 14/08/2017 11:38 AM:

Naismith played well particularly first half yesterday. His movement off the ball is very good and that is a key component of the new strategy. Second half the team lost some control partly because Sunderland adapted having got the undeserved lead.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you LDC, I was beginning to think I was the only person who felt Naismith had a good first half yesterday.

Unfortunately too many people seem to only remember the latter part of the game and too many people are too eager to jump on the bandwagon and criticise specific players (like Martin) regardless of how they play.

Naismith went off the boil in the second half and it was the right thing to do to substitute him.

He was nowhere near the poorest player we had yesterday.

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No he wasn''t but he did nothing to change the game either, how much better did we look when we went 4 at the back with Wes on? We actually looked a threat!

So the question is do we like to pass the ball like Ray Wilkins, back, sideways and back again or do we pass and move forwards occasionally too?

The pressure should be on Naismith he''s fronted the press conference and is a senior player, he must lead by example and be one of our best players in most games, IMO.

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[quote user="Indy"]No he wasn''t but he did nothing to change the game either, how much better did we look when we went 4 at the back with Wes on? We actually looked a threat!

So the question is do we like to pass the ball like Ray Wilkins, back, sideways and back again or do we pass and move forwards occasionally too?

The pressure should be on Naismith he''s fronted the press conference and is a senior player, he must lead by example and be one of our best players in most games, IMO.[/quote]

I would play him at No10 and make him captain

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[quote user="DDD In The Fine City"]When did we play Huddersfield? Or were you happy after watching them?

Naismith was far too deep yesterday, almost central midfield which doesn''t suit him, unfortunately Cam has the first touch of a rapist and if we''re gonna play possession football we need better

Also learn how to use a hashtag[/quote]

Obviously I meant Fulham

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[quote user="lake district canary"]Naismith played well particularly first half yesterday. His movement off the ball is very good and that is a key component of the new strategy. Second half the team lost some control partly because Sunderland adapted having got the undeserved lead.

Jerome will have better games but his powerful running is also key to the strategy and he will score goals. Naismith will score goals too and to write off CJ and AN is just foolish. It didn''t work out yesterday - not because of CJ or SN, but because the defence made a cock up for the first goal giving Sunderland the initiative.[/quote]

Point is though this isnt based on just one game. This is based on the last 18 months of seeing them play together. Ineffective, all the time.

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This is the problem I that people miss.

Naismith had a decent 1st half when you analyse his contribution.

Involved plenty, lots of neat sideways passes, kept possession, got stuck in, didnt give the ball away.

The point is he is supposed to be an Attacking Midfielder, but i dont see him in the box, shooting, creating or scoring goals. So for me he''s just a water carrier who doesnt have much impact on the game, when his price tag says otherwise.

I watched us not threaten Premier defences with Naismith behind Jerome, and saw more of the same last year. And in actual fact i remember posting a similar post this time last year about him.

I dont like him in the team and i dont like him and Jerome, i think there toothless and contribute nothing other than workhorse like performances. Id rather Wes and Oliveira were there. Didnt actually see an awful lot wrong with Reed, Vrancic and Maddison so would have rather those 3.

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I agree with the original poster and have done for some time. Jerome''s first touch is abominal for this level and he never seems to put that extra effort to get into a position to score when Murphy or Pinto or anyone else look to cross. Naismith wants to stop expending so much energy whining at the referee or telling his mates what they should be doing.

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Personally I don''t think Naismith had a bad game, admittedly he could have been more of an attacking threat but he was tidy in possession and worked hard. Also, sadly in this day and age I think you need someone like him hassling the ref and being a nuisance, especially in a team lacking many real physical ''streetwise'' type players. I was more concerned with Watkins being so anonymous and Wildschutts lack of technical skill. His physical attributes are impressive but he never looks fully in control of the ball!

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Wildshutt has been a revelation so far with exciting runs down the right and taking on players with ease. Good passing into the box but usual story nobody was there.

I agree with the comments about Jerome and Naismith - surely we can do better. - a lot of huffing and puffing by both of them but nothing incisive enough to trouble a well organised defence.

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I would think most posters on here will be drawing their pension before Naismith comes good. A complete waste of 8 million.

Why would anyone want to make him captain he''s lucky to be on the bench, as for not being up to speed he''s only missed the Fulham game as he played in the friendlies.

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Unfortunately when I watch Naismith play I simply see a more talented Andy Hughes. Lots of effort, shouting, pointing but not a great deal of influence on the game. His movements are quite good but once the ball actually comes to him he doesn''t offer a great deal.

I know not everyone has to be a match winner but for the fee we invested and the wages he reportedly draws he needs to be and even at this level his influence is at best limited.

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Jerome scored 21 goals in 2014/15 and 16 last season at Championship level for us as well as being a workhorse, all of which indicates he''s decent at this level. He hasn''t lost his physique yet so he should be capable of 15 plus goals this season.

Signing Naismith for £8 +M has to be one of the crimes of the century!

Yes he can knock the ball about and occasionally he''ll have a decent game but overall, his lack of pace and a good engine means that in 7/8 games out of 10 he will be ineffective and if starting the game will be shot to bits after 60 minutes, like he was yesterday. Naismiths lack of physical attributes means that more often than not, if against a physical pacey team who close you down quickly he becomes anonymous and tries to blags it by diving, arguing with the ref and telling his team mates how to play. Only still at the club because no club will touch him on his extortionate wages. A perfect example of Naismiths lack of high tempo is when you compare him to the 35 year old veteran Hoolahan whos got more energy!

I really hope Naismith proves me wrong but you get slower the older you get, hes now in his 30''s and hasn''t done it regularly at Norwich yet. Should be playing for Motherwell/ Killmarnock or a similar sized club in Scotland!

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For me Naismith offers very little in terms of number of chances created and doesn''t get an awful lot of goals (8 goals in 45 games). I totally agree about him not having the best engine as you rarely, if ever, see him sprinting onto a ball or running with it. I get that Wildschut offers pace and genuine threat but half the time his end ball is pathetic.

When you look at Sundays game we managed a number of shots but rarely created what you would consider great chances. Sunderland will be pleased with their game plan and I hope it was just an off day for us - but anyone who can genuinely say Jerome is the fault then I would ask how he could have done much else other than pick the ball up himself out of position and make his own chance. Oliviera should be starting but you can''t expect Jerome to feed off nothing.

I expect 3 or 4 changes will change our game on Wednesday. Pinto, Hoolahan, Oliviera and Vrancic to come in for me.

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If you think of Jerome as being a kind of Lukaku style of forward it is clear why he is selected ahead of others. What he can offer is bullying and unsettling defenders and allowing others into the game - and of course like Lukaku, score a few goals (although not as many, of course).

It didn''t work that well on Sunday, but the movement was there from players like Naismith and Watkins - but crucially, Sunderland were strong enough to deal with it. We will have better days and as confidence builds and the system gels, we will be more effective and have the players to change things around. Both CJ and Naismith are intelligent and experienced footballers. They will both, along woqth the rest of the squad, prove themselves important to any success we have this season.

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@ldc

Movement is fine but you do have to do something when you get the ball.

Watkins moved well but as soon as he got the ball all Sunderland had to do was apply some pressure and he was easily knocked off the ball. If we''re keeping this formation I''d like to see Nelson and Jerome together at some point to give us more physicality up front to hold it up and to link the play with midfield.

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Agree. I think CJ''s physicality, and NO''s technical skills could work for us together.

With Maddison in a midfield role, I''d prefer to sacrifice the No.10 spot, as Naismith hardly offers anything in that anyway, to see them paired together.

Move Klose is spot on, in that we''ve been waiting 18months for Naismith to come good and he still hasn''t. Talk is great, but he hasn''t walked the talk yet, and he''s had plenty of time to step up

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