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Having watched the highlights now Martin certainly can''t be in it. His defending was pathetic and his positioning as a right back is also incredibly poor. He comes into the middle and just lets players run into the box with the ball on their right foot.

One of our problems is that if we had to pick our best 11 players then none of the back 4 from Saturday would be in it. Pinto the only defender who might make it and he''s ropey defensively anyway.

Our best 11 players when all fit would be:

Gunn

Pinto

Klose

Reed

Tettey

Maddison

Murphy

Pritchard

Hoolahan

Oliveira

Jerome

Demonstrates quite vividly I think that despite all of the premature back slapping that has gone on this summer the balance of the squad is still far from right. They are also all players who were here last season except for the two loanees.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]Having watched the highlights now Martin certainly can''t be in it. His defending was pathetic and his positioning as a right back is also incredibly poor. He comes into the middle and just lets players run into the box with the ball on their right foot.

One of our problems is that if we had to pick our best 11 players then none of the back 4 from Saturday would be in it. Pinto the only defender who might make it and he''s ropey defensively anyway.

Our best 11 players when all fit would be:

Gunn

Pinto

Klose

Reed

Tettey

Maddison

Murphy

Pritchard

Hoolahan

Oliveira

Jerome

Demonstrates quite vividly I think that despite all of the premature back slapping that has gone on this summer the balance of the squad is still far from right. They are also all players who were here last season except for the two loanees.[/quote]If you''re right Jim, and I think you probably are, it doesn''t say much for the  ''revolution'' either does it?

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Our defenders are so poor, Jim would prefer to play two midfield players in the back 4. That is how hopeless they are !!!

another concern is Pinto & Klose are also poor !

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Strongest 11 od strongest team?

I would go with this for the strongest team (of those fit)                        Gunn         Zimmerman Francke KlosePinto                Reed                Stiepermann         Maddison Vrancic  Hoolahan                      OliveiraMurphy as impact sub.

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[quote user="Six Pack"]Our defenders are so poor, Jim would prefer to play two midfield players in the back 4. That is how hopeless they are !!!

another concern is Pinto & Klose are also poor ![/quote]

I wasn''t picking our strongest team I was simply saying that if you list our best 11 players it shows how unbalanced the squad is.

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It''s really difficult to say right now. With everyone fit I''d be tempted to give the back three another go

Gunn

Martin, Franke, Klose

Pinto Steippeman

Reed Tettey

Pritchard Maddison

Nelson

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How is Stiepermann making it into people''s strongest 11''s? By all accounts he was far from great on Saturday and he only played 10 mins vs QPR.

He might be a fantastic player in time but I couldn''t possibly say on the extremely limited evidence so far.

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gunnpintoklosea.n. othertoffolotetteyreedmurphymaddisonpritchardoliveira

still unbalanced, dont remember the last time the starting 11 had round pegs in round holes

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I always find these threads fascinating how much opinion differs. I fully agree with Clint on Stiepermann, although I''m sure he''ll come good in time he was far from the starting 11 in my eyes.

For me, with no injuries, it would be;

Gunn

Pinto Zimmerman Franke Lewis (unless Husband start putting performances together!)

Reed

Murphy Maddison Pritchard

Wes

Oliveira

Obviously, with injuries taken into account that soon becomes the below which isn''t far off what we''ve seen;

Gunn

Martin Zimmerman Franke Husband

Reed

Murphy Maddison Vrancic(/Naismith)

Wes

Jerome

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@clint

He only makes it into mine as I don''t think Husband is capable of playing as a wing back and we don''t have anyone else really.

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LDC

Funny how Stiepermann makes it into your best staring XI at LWB despite not even seeing him play there. He''s hardly even played there in his career either. Even if Husband does look pretty rubbish.

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Well based on our 4 league games so far our strongest XI must be the team that beat QPR, and why that wasn''t the team (ex Pinto) that played Villa is beyond me.

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[quote user="Move Klose"]LDC

Funny how Stiepermann makes it into your best staring XI at LWB despite not even seeing him play there. He''s hardly even played there in his career either. Even if Husband does look pretty rubbish.[/quote]

Wildschut has played right wing back this season, no reason why Stiepermann, who comes with a good reputation as a versatile player - and who played left back last season - couldn''t do the job of left wing back for us. Lewis is injured and we need Husband to improve - and if not Stiepermann is the ideal candidate.

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Has there been any indication of how long Lewis is out for? Feel we are really crying out for some pace in one of the full back positions, not least as a decent, pacy, full back often also provides cover for the centre halves.

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Jim, sadly Lewis will be out until early 2018, wouldn''t be surprised if we don''t see him back in contention until around Feb/March, had to have surgery which requires 4 months rehabilitation. Toffolo will be Husbands only competition once he''s back to fitness himself.

A massive shame for Jamal who really looked like he could make a staple on the squad this season with a very impressive pre-season

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With Dorrans now moved on, LDC has had to come up with another player to volunteer into the left side role, and Steiperman it appears to be.Despite the fact that he''s played the majority of his career either in the centre of the park or on the right, is just as irrelevant as it was in Dorrans case apparently...Any chance we might see Franke on the right wing LDC? I''m sure there would be some justification you could come up with...

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]With Dorrans now moved on, LDC has had to come up with another player to volunteer into the left side role, and Steiperman it appears to be.Despite the fact that he''s played the majority of his career either in the centre of the park or on the right, is just as irrelevant as it was in Dorrans case apparently...Any chance we might see Franke on the right wing LDC? I''m sure there would be some justification you could come up with...[/quote]

[:D]  Its the stagnant thinking I don''t get. ie - Dorrans couldn''t play left midfield because we''ve never seen him there. Stieperman can''t play left side because we haven''t seen him there and it says on wiki he is an attacking midfielder.....etc etc. Well Johnson played left side midfield and we saw it and it was good, no problem.  But if I had suggested Johnson play on the left wing at the start of that season, I would have been laughed off the message board.  The truth is, Dorrans was a capable left sided player and started in that position earlier in his career and could have been an option for a defensive minded midfield four.  Likewise Stiepermann can play a variety of positions and has good experience of playing left back.Try and loosen up on your player definitions, Indy - and others - some footballers can play anywhere on the pitch - Stieperman is plainly one that can play almost anywhere on the park.

 

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It was somewhat tongue-in-cheek to be fair LDC [:)]That being said, I just don''t get the obsession with playing people in positions they either don''t play, or only rarely play, for no apparent reason.Stieperman does NOT have good experience of playing left back ffs, he had a small amount of games there last season, and the rest of his career he''s been nowhere near playing left back. We have Husband, Toffolo and Lewis on the books to cover left, clearly this has been limited by injuries, and that''s the same reason Wildschut has been playing a few games at RWB (because of injury to Pinto, Martin and even Godfrey), not because he''s got ''good experience'' of playing there, but because we had injury problems and he was the best out of those available.I have no problem with players going into slightly different positions and roles (see Maddison this season for a great example of how it can work), but there has to be a genuine reason and justification for doing it, and so far I don''t get why suddenly Stieperman is making people''s best XI at left back based on WHAT exactly????

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"] I don''t get why suddenly Stieperman is making people''s best XI at left back based on WHAT exactly????[/quote]Tongue in cheek is fine, Indy [:)] , as for you last point, the Stieperman thing was because Husband appears to be struggling a bit at the moment and we are talking about let wing back - and Stieperman looks to me to be a class act and versatile to boot - and if he was played successfully at left back last season, then that is good enough for me. 

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Guest
Didn''t see anything but the goals highlights and while I agree Martin stood still for their second goal, Franke and Zimmerman didn''t cover themselves in glory, in fact Zimmerman looked awful.
Until the back four/five is sorted then it looks difficult to see how we will stop teams launching it at the two CB''s and awaiting the chaos. They don''t look mobile at the moment and did end up on their bums too many times.
We may have to revert to three at the back and tell one of them to hold his position. Just to try and settle them in to defending in the Championship and not Germany.
Leaking goals by the shed load was our problem last season and while we must be patient and let them settle in, the coach must address it.
Forget putting out reserves and going on about resting players already when its only August, stick out a strong team against Charlton and get them to sort it out.

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Impossible for me to know based on just 5 games. From what we have seen none of us know and while the manager may injuries mean we are not there.

If all fit and based on enormous dollop of guess I would go 3511

Gunn

Farke Zimmerman Klose

Pinto. Reed Lewis

Maddison Wes

Murphy

Nelson

But that assume the front players are willing to defend from the front

That there are genuine cogent arguments for Martin, tettey, Steipermann, vrancic Jerome, naismith and 442 4231 4141 261 and 352 together with the knowledge that the xi best players dont always make the best team show it''s hard

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[quote user="Making Plans"]Well based on our 4 league games so far our strongest XI must be the team that beat QPR, and why that wasn''t the team (ex Pinto) that played Villa is beyond me.

[/quote]

One reason was Nelson had an injury so couldn''t start

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If all fit:

Gunn

Pinto

Zimmermann

Klose

Husband

Reed

Tettey

Hoolahan

Pritchard

Murphy

Oliveira

For Millwall:

Gunn

Pinto

Martin

Zimmermann

Franke

Stiepermann

Reed

Tettey

Murphy

Watkins

Oliveira

Wes, Wildschut, Maddison, Jerome, Trybull, Husband, Godfrey(fit?) to give options in second half. We''re light on defensive cover

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