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Big Vince

A Catalogue of Failings

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If you take out the 3 promotions achieved under McNasty, what have Delia & Wynnie actually achieved in 21 years at the club? When left to their own devices they''ve only had one successful season in 21 years and that was because they got lucky with one player who galvanised the whole team in 2003-04. Even when in the EPL they have always taken the view that they are tourists in that league and expect to get returned to the Championship almost immediately.

To get to the next level you have to put money in to stop the bubble bursting. But no one on the Board puts any of their own money in and they refuse to step aside to let someone else have a go.

It is clear that Delia & Wynnie are now embarking on a massive downsizing exercise. All the best players are being sold to bridge the gap between losing the parachute payments and arriving back in League 1.

Selling players for well over £30 million since January and replacing them with players costing less than a million each is a sure sign of the standard of player Norwich can afford under the self-funding model and the level that the club will find itself at once this transformation has been completed. Make no mistake, there are going to be further painful adjustments to make. Oliveira, Murphy 2 and Pritchard will all be sold by next summer.

After all the good work of McNasty and Lambert the club is going to be back at square 1 with no money, no players worth selling and debts starting to rack up again.

The defensive failings at the club have been ongoing since at least Hughton''s second season and so Delia & Wynnie have had ample time to spot and rectify the problem, but instead they have lost a chairman, 2 chief execs and 3 managers plus countless changeovers in backroom staff including scouts, recruitment managers, academy managers, etc. There has been no continuity whatsoever.

The lack of continuity has led to yet another change - this time the structure of the club with the employment of a sporting director who has had nearly as many clubs as the boy Nicklaus, does not keep to his promises, uses mild expletives at the pre-season forum, is common and insults the city of Norwich by saying there is nothing here apart from the football club. Do I get the feeling his presence is also going to be a fleeting one? A chancer who thinks he''s better than he is and always on the lookout for the next move?

Norwich fans deserve a lot better than this from their football club.

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Is a Catalogue of Failings the title of you new book about the members of Fina Fail?I don''t see it bothering the top sellers list, and speaking about top sellers I''ll vote for Peter.

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 the employment of a sporting director who has

had nearly as many clubs as the boy Nicklaus, does not keep to his

promises, uses mild expletives at the pre-season forum, is common and

insults the city of Norwich by saying there is nothing here apart from

the football club.What on earth are you on about ?

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I love the opening line "if you take out the 3 promotions".

Gotta love the airbrushing of history to make an argument fit.

Didn''t even bother to read the rest.

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[quote user="Big Vince"]But no one on the Board puts any of their own money in and they refuse to step aside to let someone else have a go.[/quote]Like your hero Chase did you mean?

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[quote user="Big Vince"]But no one on the Board puts any of their own money in and they refuse to step aside to let someone else have a go.[/quote]

When are people like you going to realise that it is not about money - it is about maintaining the character of the club rather than risk losing it''s identity to a speculator.   It''s not just about the first person who invests, but further down the line - who he passes it on to once he has had enough.  What the Delia detractors don''t get is that passing the club on in the shape of a trust is safeguarding the club in the long term. Howling about lack of investment is pointless when the future of the club is to be as a self-financing business, protected by a Trust.  Pointless.

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[quote user="Drazen Muzinic"]I love the opening line "if you take out the 3 promotions".

Gotta love the airbrushing of history to make an argument fit.

Didn''t even bother to read the rest.[/quote]Exactly the same.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]

When are people like you going to realise that it is not about money - it is about maintaining the character of the club rather than risk losing it''s identity to a speculator.   It''s not just about the first person who invests, but further down the line - who he passes it on to once he has had enough.  What the Delia detractors don''t get is that passing the club on in the shape of a trust is safeguarding the club in the long term. Howling about lack of investment is pointless when the future of the club is to be as a self-financing business, protected by a Trust.  Pointless.

[/quote]spot on old fella

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[quote user="Captain Birdseye"]Vince don''t listen to the Extreme happy clappers you make a balanced and informed view in this thread

After highland canary you are my hero[/quote]"You can judge a man by his friends."

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[quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="Captain Birdseye"]Vince don''t listen to the Extreme happy clappers you make a balanced and informed view in this thread

After highland canary you are my hero[/quote]"You can judge a man by his friends."

[/quote]+1 [:D]

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Drazen Muzinic wrote:

I love the opening line "if you take out the 3 promotions". Gotta love the airbrushing of history to make an argument fit. Didn''t even bother to read the rest.

Exactly the same.

Me too. Stopped reading after that sentence.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"] the employment of a sporting director who has

had nearly as many clubs as the boy Nicklaus, does not keep to his

promises, uses mild expletives at the pre-season forum, is common and

insults the city of Norwich by saying there is nothing here apart from

the football club.What on earth are you on about ?[/quote]Obviously no chance of an answer then ?

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''When are people like you going to realise that it is not about money - it is about maintaining the character of the club rather than risk losing it''s identity to a speculator. It''s not just about the first person who invests, but further down the line - who he passes it on to once he has had enough. What the Delia detractors don''t get is that passing the club on in the shape of a trust is safeguarding the club in the long term. Howling about lack of investment is pointless when the future of the club is to be as a self-financing business, protected by a Trust. Pointless. ''

Serious question LDC. Would you be happy lower end of the Championship/top end of League One if it meant ''maintaining the character of the club'' and we were a ''self-financing business, protected by a Trust''

That''s the route we are taking, because more and more Championship teams are getting taken over, the teams coming down are getting more & more money, all of which means we just cannot compete financially.

And if we want to go down the route of developing players & selling on, surely that is self defeating if your business model requires you to continually sell your best players?

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I seem to remember the late Jack Walker leaving £200 million in a trust to safeguard Blackburn Rovers and we all know what happened to them.

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It is relevant to point out though that 3 of the 4 promotions have only been possible because we got relegated previously under the same regime.

So really other than the first promotion under Worthington the other 3 are in effect cancelled out by the relegations.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]It is relevant to point out though that 3 of the 4 promotions have only been possible because we got relegated previously under the same regime.

So really other than the first promotion under Worthington the other 3 are in effect cancelled out by the relegations.[/quote]Or is it better to say that the relegations were cancelled out by the subsequent promotions?Anyway I like the idea of a negative promotion. [:D]

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[quote user="FenwayFrank"]Weird logic Jim[/quote]

Not really. You can''t argue that a club has been successful because its had 3 promotions over a period of time when those promotions were only taking them back to the level they were at previously.

Ultimately we are now at pretty much exactly the same level in the football pyramid as we were when Delia and MWJ took over so what is more relevant is whether you regard that as success, par or failure.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="FenwayFrank"]Weird logic Jim[/quote]

Not really. You can''t argue that a club has been successful because its had 3 promotions over a period of time when those promotions were only taking them back to the level they were at previously.

Ultimately we are now at pretty much exactly the same level in the football pyramid as we were when Delia and MWJ took over so what is more relevant is whether you regard that as success, par or failure.[/quote]You''ve forgot to use trend analysis, that would solve this argument one and for all.Or maybe we could make all of the players lie head to foot and measure them, if D&W have the longest line they win if Chase has the longest he wins. 

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Take out the fact that its a negative poster that opened this, his point does stand. Pre McNally, a club such ourselves us should really have been looking at regularly establishing itself towards the top of the Championship and regular trips into the Premier League. After relegation in 1995, we only managed one Huckerby inspired promotion followed by a lack of investment to preserve that status and a regression to League One with an increasing debt.

Installing Bowkett/McNally/Lambert miraculously got us out of the hole that we''d been sleepwalking towards for the previous 15 years but we''ve failed to build on that. What allowed this to happen? IMO, Delia taking too long to get rid of Hughton got us relegated then too long to get rid of Neil cost us at least a playoff push. Didn''t Southampton fire Nigel Adkins after he got them promoted to bring in a manager more suited to the top flight? Mentioning this more to draw a comparison between clubs run with foresight and clubs run under sentiment. And now, looking at how much better we were after Neil left, do we build on that? No we bring in a whole new philosophy which is essentially trying to copy what another team did last season.

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