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nutty nigel

Steven Naismith

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He''s certainly an intelligent footballer and it''s evident in his link up play with Pritchard and his off ball movement. He isn''t as technically gifted as I thought he was before joining us though.

Tactically I imagine he''s a dream for managers because he seems to follow instructions consistently even if it''s to the detriment of how his performance comes across.

Countering all the above it''s fair to say he''s had a decent chunk of genuinely poor games though, and they''ve not always coincided with the team playing poorly.

The reality is we ain''t gonna get anything close to 8m for him, nor are we likely to attract anyone much better in this league so imagine he will probably be here next season

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Oliveira''s second goal was "made" by Naismith''s diagonal crossing run, pulling the second covering defender with him and so clearing Oliveira''s way. We lack players with that level of appreciation of what the situation calls for. The "ranting" he gets criticised for is simply him trying to inculcate a similar level of situational understanding into his team mates. I bet the younger players, Prichard in particular, are learning a huge amount from him.

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He''s not a bad player and seems to be finding his feet at last but his costs are very high when for what he brings. As the parachute payments drop dramatically this year I imagine we will be looking to move him on, although that might not prove easy.

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When he has an off day his game goes to pot, he then takes it out on other players by blaming them. That''s a trait that winds fans up and maybe what has caused many to take a dim view of him, once that has happened people rarely change their minds.

Imo he is a valuable player,when on form, I hope he''s here season.

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IMO a lot of Naismith''s problem is that, like Wes, he''s often on a different wavelength to those around him. You see the best of both when they are playing with someone who understands them, Holty for example in Wes''s case, Prichard and Oliveira for example in Naismith''s. I suspect Naismith still can''t quite believe how little he can take for granted compared to when playing for Everton.

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Gives his all, which is more than can be said for many. I''d be more than happy if he was captain next season.

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Helps that he now has a manager who gives him clear, coherent tactical instructions that he''s been able to thrive off of. He''s not another Hoolahan or Pritchard, you don''t just tell him to go out and make things happen, it''s not his game.

Everyone''s noted how much more organised we''ve looked in the past 5 games or so (allowing for some mistakes because it''s inevitable with this group of players) I think that kind of structure suits Naismith, he strikes me as the sort who will run himself into the ground following instructions but isn''t the most creative or a typical flair player who plays on instinct.

Also Irvine doesn''t try to control every instance of play from the touchline by shouting specific instructions to players all throughout the game. He gives them instructions then let''s them think for themselves on the pitch, again I think that helps a player like Naismith.

Imo he just looked utterly confused and frustrated all the time playing in AN''s system. Which you can''t blame him for.

Would definitely like to keep him but I think he''ll only thrive and stand out if we get a good head coach who can get the best out of him.

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[quote user="hogesar"]He''s certainly an intelligent footballer and it''s evident in his link up play with Pritchard and his off ball movement. He isn''t as technically gifted as I thought he was before joining us though.

Tactically I imagine he''s a dream for managers because he seems to follow instructions consistently even if it''s to the detriment of how his performance comes across.

Countering all the above it''s fair to say he''s had a decent chunk of genuinely poor games though, and they''ve not always coincided with the team playing poorly.

The reality is we ain''t gonna get anything close to 8m for him, nor are we likely to attract anyone much better in this league so imagine he will probably be here next season[/quote]Agree with all of this.With hindsight we paid over the odds and if the rumours are true that he''s on - for us - astronomical wages with no relegation clause then he''s been extremely poor value for money.If we wanted to sell we''d get nothing like £8m but against that we''d free up his wages. It''s probably fingers crossed that next season he makes the kind of impact we''re entitled to expect.

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The figure of 12 million was for his WHOLE contract! As I said has he been worth it? I don''t think so, if people think he has fair play but it highlights to me that we spend crazy amounts on players that don''t seem to be worth what we pay for them, hopefully with Webber in charge now that will change. As for Naismith, if he stays which AM goes as there isn''t room for 4, so one of Hoolahan, Maddison or Pritchard will leave I think if Naismith stays

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Well be certainly seems to be different things for different people. He seems to get poor old Yorky Pud in a right old lather. I see a player who''s movement in attack pulls defenders out of position. A player who gets in the face of the opposition which is something we dont do enough as a team. A player who attacks the box to support the lone striker, something we don''t do enough as a team. And as I said a player who should have scored more from the chances he had in the box. A lot of posters claim we''re too nice as a team. Well we''renot so nice when Naismith plays.[/quote]

All of this with knobs on.

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1) I''m pretty sure someone (Ed Balls) confirmed that ALL players had relegation clauses. But we that doesn''t necessarily mean we aren''t still paying him a relatively high wage compared to the rest of the squad.

2) Whether or not we paid/are paying a lot for him, we''re probably stuck with him now, so either he''s worth playing or not based on what he brings to the pitch. IMHO most of the Championship would be delighted to have him in their team.

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If he helps us get promotion next season then it will have been money well spent.

If we don''t achieve this his signing will have been a massive and expensive mistake.

It''s black and white no less.

He''s no Wes but he has other attributes. Let''s hope they count.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]If he helps us get promotion next season then it will have been money well spent. If we don''t achieve this his signing will have been a massive and expensive mistake.

It''s black and white no less.[/quote]Except it isn''t Black & White...If instead of spending the money on Naismith, we''d have brought in a better CB, then arguably we might have avoided relegation or at the least gone straight back up, either of which is better than what''s actually happened.....

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If we''d bought better players, and/or had a better manager, we''d be higher up the table.

If we''d bought worse ones, and/or had a worse manager, we''d be lower.

Hardly rocket science.

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Agree with that Indy. It''s not what just what he shows on the pitch, which isn''t as bad as some people think in my opinion. It''s also what he costs and what we could have spent that money on instead. The same goes for Wildschut. We have an enormous amount of sorting out to do just as our income is being significantly cut. AN''s legacy is going to take some recovering from.

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With a number of PL contracts ending, Ruddy, Bassong, Mulumbu, Turner, Lafferty and Whittaker I would expect a fair amount saved there, Assuming most of those move on. Don''t be surprised at at least bone sale either, which in itself might cover the £8m drop in parachute payments. The real cut will be next season when we lose the £32m of this season. However I think it will be about motivating players,something clearly missing this season.

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I don''t quite get all the positives thrown at Naismith - I must have been watching a different player, but each to their own.We need a whole new back 4, plus another goalie as even with Rudd back McGovern is a disaster. That''s going to cost money and I would rather that partly came from the sale of Naismith rather than the likes of one or both Murphys, Pritchard or Maddison.We are where we are, tough decisions  and choices will need to be made.

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Decent player but nowhere near worth that price tag.

Most of us would I imagine prefer to see someone like Pritchard or Wes, maybe Maddison, provide the flair and creativity in the no.10 role. Naismith isn''t technically good enough or quick of mind to perform this role. So then of course you have to consider where else he could play. The only other viable option is as an inverted or wide midfield player. He can do a decent job here, but would obviously lack a wide player''s natural instincts.

We always like hard working and aggressive players in the team, but is this a bit of a misnomer? Lee Croft and Andy Hughes could do this but they were useless, and I''m sure I could get a few minutes on a pitch and work hard, doesn''t make me effective though. I think Naismith is well above these players, but hunger and commitment can be shown by loads of players, and I imagine that''s what Webber is currently working on with transfer plans.

For the reported wages he''s on, I think it could be better invested in balancing the squad out with a more effective team unit for next season.

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Naismith cost the same and has provided no more benefit to the team than RVW did, that''s why people don''t rate him. Sure Van Naismith has had a couple of good games this year, but when he was required to put in match winning performances whilst we were in the Premier League he flapped his arms and started moaning at all and sundry. So sorry Nuts but a decent finish and getting sent off in the same game has not persuaded me that he is the answer to our problems. In fact, much like RVW, the sooner we can off load him to Vitesse Arnhem, the better.

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Naismith is one of those players who looks alot better when surrounded by better players (Everton).

Webber wants to get the wage bill and age of the squad down, where better to start then a 31 year old highest earner at the club. Can''t see anyone wanting to pay his wages whether it''s permanent or a loan.

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I think it''s been mooted on this thread earlier but could he perhaps play in central midfield? He appears now to be showing the passion and aggression we''ve been in desperate need of in the centre of the park. He also clearly has a good footballing brain and a decent eye for a pass.

Is it an option?

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Could Naismith reinvent himself as a central midfielder ?

He hasn''t the guile for 10 or pace for a winger or consistent scoring for the striker but is combative and encourages those around him. Could there be a role for him in the middle ?

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[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]Naismith cost the same and has provided no more benefit to the team than RVW did, that''s why people don''t rate him. Sure Van Naismith has had a couple of good games this year, but when he was required to put in match winning performances whilst we were in the Premier League he flapped his arms and started moaning at all and sundry. So sorry Nuts but a decent finish and getting sent off in the same game has not persuaded me that he is the answer to our problems. In fact, much like RVW, the sooner we can off load him to Vitesse Arnhem, the better.

[/quote]Did nutty or anyone say that Naismith is "the answer to our problems"? No. Does he bring something that we have previously lacked and needed? Yes, most definitely. Your criticism of his contribution last season ignores the fact that he had been injured before he signed, had made only 4 appearances for Everton prior to signing for us, was injured soon after signing for us, and yet apparently could, in your jaundiced view, be expected to "put in match winning performances" in a dysfunctional side that e.g. contrived to lose to Liverpool in a match in which Naismith had made a big positive contribution. 

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He certainly took on board Irvine''s message to shoot on sight, even if it was directed at Pritchard. I''m certain he will stay,and improve much further. He''s got a bit of bite about him, and is maybe the wiser head they we have benefited from previously having in the middle. Suggett, O''Neill, Hartford. Mulumbu, Tettey and even Hoolahan yes, but not Naismith

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I''m with Carrow and Diane on this one. I hope (and given Webber''s hint, expect) he stays. I also think he could make excellent captain or vice captain material. He has tons of experience. We have seen a committe player for the last 10 games ( actually since Irvine). Then, Actually it interesting that many players have upped their games since Irvine took over.

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