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AJ

Player Fire Sale! (and what awful signings...)

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Just seen the latest article on the Pinkun by Nick Mashiter and he reckons;

Wildschut to be unloaded due to high wages (were we REALLY that confident of getting promoted when we signed him? Certainly raises questions up high about naivety if so...)

Naismith to Sunderland is doing the rounds.

Matt Jarvis to be offloaded as he''s on high wages. Apparently hasn''t featured for us for an entire year! Nice little pay packet for him, but I still believe he could potentially be an asset if he could actually get fit...

Leeds have been poking around about Howson.

McGovern is wanted by Rotherham but Norwich would need to foot some of his wages still.

I''m not sure we have the money to completely overhaul our squad, but Howson we must keep and McGovern seems silly to let go after letting Ruddy go. McGovern and Rudd seem OK at this level - if McGovern goes i would like to think that we must have someone pretty decent lined up (wishful thinking perhaps). Wildschut, Jarvis and Naismith we wouldn''t overly miss IMO, as we have a lot of competition in those areas anyway.

Writing this post makes me realise though, what a terrible couple of seasons it has been for transfers, with Wildschut, Naismith (to some extent), Canos, Andreu, Jarvis, Lafferty (to some extent), Mulumbu, Odjidja-Ofoe... What a lot of wasted funds!

On the plus side, he also reckons Marley Watkins is pretty much a done deal.

He also said we looked at Lincoln Manager Cowley but have ultimately decided he is "not ready" for this type of challenge yet.

All interesting

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Is Nick Mashiter Webber''s unofficial spokesman then? Given that the Pinkun are quoting him directly without the usual "Transfer Rumours" blerb

Maybe there''s truth in the Howson rumour then, surprised we want to get rid of him

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[quote user="Highland Canary"]Omnishambles. You couldn''t make it up.[/quote]

It is about time people lay the blame firmly and squarely with Delia and Wynnie. They are ultimately responsible for the club being run in such a shambolic way.

Wasting huge amounts of money is just what you would expect from lifelong socialists. Could you ever imagine Mr Chase spending all that money on Klose, Naismith and Wildschut and now be faced with letting them go for peanuts?

I hope all the socialists within the club will take their cue from the imminent landslide defeat on June 8 and do their own canexit.

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Thanks for repeating everything that we''ve read on the actual pink''un.

Weird post.

May as well have copy and pasted.

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[quote user="Big Vince"][quote user="Highland Canary"]Omnishambles. You couldn''t make it up.[/quote]

It is about time people lay the blame firmly and squarely with Delia and Wynnie. They are ultimately responsible for the club being run in such a shambolic way.

Wasting huge amounts of money is just what you would expect from lifelong socialists. Could you ever imagine Mr Chase spending all that money on Klose, Naismith and Wildschut and now be faced with letting them go for peanuts?

I hope all the socialists within the club will take their cue from the imminent landslide defeat on June 8 and do their own canexit.[/quote]What, you mean like in some kind of firesale forced on him to keep the club afloat? No, I can''t imagine that either.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Big Vince"][quote user="Highland Canary"]Omnishambles. You couldn''t make it up.[/quote]

It is about time people lay the blame firmly and squarely with Delia and Wynnie. They are ultimately responsible for the club being run in such a shambolic way.

Wasting huge amounts of money is just what you would expect from lifelong socialists. Could you ever imagine Mr Chase spending all that money on Klose, Naismith and Wildschut and now be faced with letting them go for peanuts?

I hope all the socialists within the club will take their cue from the imminent landslide defeat on June 8 and do their own canexit.[/quote]What, you mean like in some kind of firesale forced on him to keep the club afloat? No, I can''t imagine that either.[/quote]

Mr Chase never sold a player for peanuts firesale or not.

The situation we are talking about now is that we would be lucky to get any fee at all for Klose, Naismith and Wildschut and the best we can hope for is to simply waste the wages and make a big assumption the respective contracts will not have to be paid up or part-paid. If the contracts have to be paid up in full to get them to leave then that is more money wasted and money taken away from the re-build budget.

At no point in Mr Chase''s 10 year reign was there such an accumulation of financial atrocities, waste and mismanagement. He had a clear strategy to sell players in order to: balance the books, rebuild the ground, build Colney and buy players. This strategy worked extremely well for 9 out of those 10 years, but of course the Delia apologists will come on here to use the 1 year to justify and excuse her legacy of failure and under-achievement over 21 years.

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[quote user="Big Vince"][quote user="Highland Canary"]Omnishambles. You couldn''t make it up.[/quote]

It is about time people lay the blame firmly and squarely with Delia and Wynnie. They are ultimately responsible for the club being run in such a shambolic way.

Could you ever imagine Mr Chase spending all that money on Klose, Naismith and Wildschut and now be faced with letting them go for peanuts?

[/quote]

We have wasted an awful lot of money signing players who were known to be injury prone (Jarvis, Voo.), just not needed (Andreau, Lafferty, McGovern) or overpriced panic buys (Naismith, Wildschut).

Will this club ever learn?

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Transitioning to our post-parachute world to find £30m+ savings in wages, we''re not going to be left with much in the way of player assets with realisable values.

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Looking at the players mentioned, wonder what the total of the transfer fees and wages would be ? Must be near to £75 million down the drain. Shame on you AN, DS and WJ !

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Yes. Shame on them. Whose stupid idea was it to get into the PL so we had money ''to waste'' ? Look at Redmond, what a loss of money he was. Just as Johnson and Grabban were. Brady, more money down the drain, just as with Olsson.We should be buying players from the Ryman''s League for 10k.

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Among all the pants we do have the likes of Pritchard, Maddison, Ivo and others signed for the future like Godfrey; Jarvis is actually a proven PL performer, just beset by injury problems - not many complained when we bought him, for sure, but it''s all so easy with the benefit of hindsight. Even Yanic has been written off without even being given a chance - I''ve no idea how good he is.

But getting shot of players you don''t want is not a fire sale - that would be us selling players we want to keep and isn''t something I''ve seen we''re looking to do.

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[quote user="CANARYKING"]Looking at the players mentioned, wonder what the total of the transfer fees and wages would be ? Must be near to £75 million down the drain. Shame on you AN, DS and WJ ![/quote]

I believe DM was involved with most of these. In reality apart from providing good the money (( something everyone cries out for) DS & WJ have very little involvement with player transfers

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Bizare to try and pin this on Delia and MWJ. They don''t scout the players and they don''t choose who comes in- in fact if they did start interfering in that people would be rightly angry.

They''ve backed their manager- in this case you can argue they backed him for too long but they backed him.

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shock horror - some purchases don''t work out. Surprise -those signed while in the prem have good deals.

Good to see the change is gathering pace. Very encouraged to see that we are looking to change the keeper - very little news and rumours has negative connotations.

Fingers crossed the revolution started in march continues.

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Every club buys badly at some point no matter which league they are in.

When clubs buy badly it is either the manager wants to get someone in who may have done well elsewhere, or the scouting network in place has selected someone who just does not work out.

We as a club since Webber has come in has the opportunity to get a new decent manager in who at the moment seems to be Jens keller who I don''t know anything about, and we have also got rid of our scouting network, this hopefully is a good thing and we can bring in some decent players.

Getting rid of players on the high wages this will be difficult, the players who''s contracts were ending is easy but players with time left on there contracts is going to be harder to do. Naismith if he goes to sunderland then we can get him off the wage bill and hopefully re-coup some money back, but getting shot of some of the other players will will have to see.

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I have no problem with releasing the players we have released so far which should reduce the wage bill significantly. i''d also have absolutely no problem with moving on Naismith and Jarvis if we can find someone prepared to take them (which I doubt).

However, I will be very unhappy if we start selling players we would ideally want to keep in the name of this restructuring,. We still have a year on parachute payments and we must do everything we can to take advantage of that. if that means the likes of Howson have to be sold for less money in a years time if we have failed to go up then so be it and obviously with any new signings their contracts will have to reflect the fact that in a years time we may well be operating on a significantly reduced budget but that will be no bad thing as it will hopefully mean a return to signing promising lower league players or well scouted foreign gems rather than chucking millions at rubbish like Naismith and Wildshut.

I do not like the narrative coming out of the club and being bought by the media at present that we have to completely "rebuild" and go back to square one and that it may take some time. The side that stuffed QPR and Reading towards the end of the season should pretty much all still be around next season and are more than good enough to finish top 6 in this league. One look at the utter dross that made the playoffs this season shows you how badly we underperformed due to the idiot decision to retain Neil and then sack him too late and not even really attempt to make a late run to the playoffs by not appointing a new manager. The board failed us big time and they get no patience or sympathy from me next season if we are not challenging. All we need is a vaguely competent coach and three or fours reasonable defensive signings. We do not need a "fire sale" to fund that and I will be very disappointed if any players we would want to keep are sold.

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I have been very critical of the board for many seasons now and I don''t feel we will move forward with our "owners" . The little news that has come out of the club has not been overly encouraging and we really could be faced with a long stay in the Championship imo. I often get to hear that "NCFC supporters expect too much and that NCFC are not the big club many supporters think they are"

With a board that had taken the bull by the horns, we would have been quite an established PL team now or at least we wouldn''t have gone down in 2016. How AN was allowed to stay on in december , is still beyond me. I am a worried supporter... ''cause the signs are we are potless (socialist owners won''t invest) and we are not out of the Woods regarding our manager yet.

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I can''t see us selling players just for the sake of it. The strategy has to be to focus on building a team that fits into the new Head Coach''s style of play. Personally I hope it is still a forward thinking attacking approach, but with more solidity in midfield and defence.

I also dispute that Naismith was a ''rubbish buy''. At the time, and in the position we were in, I was impressed that we had the ability to sign a player of his quality and experience. With hindsight, he hasn''t settled as well as we''d hoped, but on his day, he is a really important part of the team. We often say on here how we don''t have leaders on the pitch and I believe he is one - who could be very important for us next season, when we could potentially have a lot more youngsters in our first eleven - Murphy, Pritchard, Maddison, Thompson, Toffolo, Godrey.

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[quote user="ROBFLECK"]I have been very critical of the board for many seasons now and I don''t feel we will move forward with our "owners" . The little news that has come out of the club has not been overly encouraging and we really could be faced with a long stay in the Championship imo. I often get to hear that "NCFC supporters expect too much and that NCFC are not the big club many supporters think they are"

With a board that had taken the bull by the horns, we would have been quite an established PL team now or at least we wouldn''t have gone down in 2016. How AN was allowed to stay on in december , is still beyond me. I am a worried supporter... ''cause the signs are we are potless (socialist owners won''t invest) and we are not out of the Woods regarding our manager yet.[/quote]

They are the owners, there''s no need for the quotation marks.What news are you expecting this side of 30th June when contracts officially end?I enjoyed your hypothesis that we could be an established PL team but that''s all it is, there''s no certainties for the clubs that get promoted.''socialist owners won''t invest'', isn''t the accusation always thrown at Socialists that they are profligate which is the opposite of your statement?

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[quote user="Woodman"]I can''t see us selling players just for the sake of it. The strategy has to be to focus on building a team that fits into the new Head Coach''s style of play. Personally I hope it is still a forward thinking attacking approach, but with more solidity in midfield and defence.

I also dispute that Naismith was a ''rubbish buy''. At the time, and in the position we were in, I was impressed that we had the ability to sign a player of his quality and experience. With hindsight, he hasn''t settled as well as we''d hoped, but on his day, he is a really important part of the team. We often say on here how we don''t have leaders on the pitch and I believe he is one - who could be very important for us next season, when we could potentially have a lot more youngsters in our first eleven - Murphy, Pritchard, Maddison, Thompson, Toffolo, Godrey.[/quote]To be fair most of us thought that Naismith was going to be a consistent quality addition. '' On his day '' he can be a really important part of the team but he doesn''t have nearly enough of those so for what we paid for him and the wages he''s on he''s very poor value.Likewise Wildschut. We can only hope there''s some hidden improvement but for the reported £7m paid he looks very average. If he turns out to be a dud then fair play to Wigan for doing a '' Grabban to Bournemouth '' on us. I''ll bet they insisted the fee was paid by electronic transfer so it had cleared before we had a chance to see him in a Norwich shirt [:D]

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Naismith was a rubbish buy for the reason that we paid a lot of money for him, it appears did not get any relegation clause reducing his wages when we went down and at the time we simply didn''t need him and had much more pressing other priorities, just as we did throughout Neil''s tenure where attacking midfielders were consistently signed at the expense of the defence.

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Did I see somewhere that the Wildschut deal was £3m, rising to £7m? He''s found himself behind Murphy, Wes and Naismith, and I agree that we haven''t seen the best of him. I have to admit I was expecting to see him pushing to be a first choice, but haven''t seen much, if anything, from him to put him ahead of those players.

I agree Naismith needs to do more consistently to justify his fee and wages, but he seemed to be doing that under Irvine, until that stupid tackle at Leeds.

Too much pruning just to get the wage bill down could be damaging to the overall objective of getting promoted. We need some experienced heads around some exciting young talent.

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I believe part of the reason Moxey was "let go" was down to his opposition of signing Wildschut, so maybe he knew what others didn''t even though he was lambasted on here! Would be interesting to know who actually approved the awful signing of Wildschut?

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"the awful signing of Wildschut?"

Certainly seems that way and we certainly paid over the odds. The big but is that the player has hardly had time to get himself settled and hasn''t really been given this or the opportunity to establish himself as a first team starter. He did have some fairly decent write ups for some of his performances at Wigan (played well against us and the binners apparently.)

We should bite anybody''s hand off who offers £4m+ but I am inclined to want him kept on rather than unload him too cheaply. Then again there is the wages factor which we know little about but can guess these might be on the high side due to the club seemingly now wanting to unload the player.

One of the briefest stays in the history of NCFC might be on the cards?

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[quote user="Woodman"]Did I see somewhere that the Wildschut deal was £3m, rising to £7m?[/quote]I had also heard that from a pretty reliable source. Seeing as he''s hardly played and we didn''t get promoted, if we could recoup most or all of that £3m it''d be fair enough.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]I have no problem with releasing the players we have released so far which should reduce the wage bill significantly. i''d also have absolutely no problem with moving on Naismith and Jarvis if we can find someone prepared to take them (which I doubt).

However, I will be very unhappy if we start selling players we would ideally want to keep in the name of this restructuring,. We still have a year on parachute payments and we must do everything we can to take advantage of that. if that means the likes of Howson have to be sold for less money in a years time if we have failed to go up then so be it and obviously with any new signings their contracts will have to reflect the fact that in a years time we may well be operating on a significantly reduced budget but that will be no bad thing as it will hopefully mean a return to signing promising lower league players or well scouted foreign gems rather than chucking millions at rubbish like Naismith and Wildshut.

I do not like the narrative coming out of the club and being bought by the media at present that we have to completely "rebuild" and go back to square one
and that it may take some time. The side that stuffed QPR and Reading towards the end of the season should pretty much all still be around next season and are more than good enough to finish top 6 in this league. One look at the utter dross that made the playoffs this season shows you how badly we underperformed due to the idiot decision to retain Neil and then sack him too late and not even really attempt to make a late run to the playoffs by not appointing a new manager. The board failed us big time and they get no patience or sympathy from me next season if we are not challenging. All we need is a vaguely competent coach and three or fours reasonable defensive signings. We do not need a "fire sale" to fund that and I will be very disappointed if any players we would want to keep are sold.[/quote]
Not sure this is entirely fair. If you actually watch Webber / Stone''s interviews I think it''s made fairly clear by both that they''re happy with some elements of the club, Webber has been impressed in certain areas and thinks we have a very good core squad. Both have noted the importance of trying to get promoted whilst we have the parachute payments, and certainly neither have referred to going back to ''square one''.

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