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hogesar

London Bridge

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Devastating news. More families who''s lives are changed forever.

As for solutions, is there much we can do about these kinds of attacks? The only thing which obviously has moral implications is the fact that most attackers seem to be known to police prior to an attack. Is it time to make radicalisation itself a crime...how on earth would you prove it?

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Listening to the most harrowing accounts of witnesses left helpless and devestated by their inability to help. Can''t begin to imagine how hopeless that must feel.

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I don''t find these things shocking anymore, while we let these extremists do what they do in this country how can we be shocked?

Preaching hate in mosques and on the street? Hardly any checks when the make trips to the Middle East and back without any sort of questioning and even when we suspect them of being involved we don''t act until it''s far too late.

Until we deport or lock up anyone suspected of being involved get ready for these things to happen on a monthly basis, the human rights act does nothing but let these sick fucks claim the race card and attack us from inside.

I''d be fecked if I trust the torys or labour to make the changes needed to protect us further, so get used to it terrorists attacks in our country are here to stay.

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It has been suggested that suspects should be interned but as hogsar has said how is this proved. Is looking up ISIS on the Internet a terrorist activity? Is expressing support a criminal act or does it require positive action such as procuring materials to make a bomb for example? Internment without trial flies in the face of Hanes corpus and as such hands a moral victory to the terrorists.

We don''t help ourselves mind you. When Cameron wanted to strip people who went to fight for ISIS Iof their citizenship MPs voted this down as it would leave them stateless. So what? They were not forced to go but again it seems their rights are more important than the right not to be murdered by these evil people.

Personally I would strip British citizens of their citizenship if they go to fight for enemies of the state and refuse them re-entry. Forign nationals who commit major crimes here should be forcibly deported direct from prison at the end of their sentences and prisoners should be isolated where the risk of radicalisation in prisons occurs.

I have huge respect for the emergency services who do their best to protect us and respond with great courage when these atrocities happen. May God bless them and keep them safe!

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@DDD

I don''t find these things shocking anymore, while we let these extremists do what they do in this country how can we be shocked?

Preaching hate in mosques and on the street? Hardly any checks when the make trips to the Middle East and back without any sort of questioning and even when we suspect them of being involved we don''t act until it''s far too late.

Until we deport or lock up anyone suspected of being involved get ready for these things to happen on a monthly basis, the human rights act does nothing but let these sick * claim the race card and attack us from inside.

I''d be fecked if I trust the torys or labour to make the changes needed to protect us further, so get used to it terrorists attacks in our country are here to stay.

Ben, i''m still shocked when these situations happen, but not surprised !, this is going to be a long battle and we need more armed police on the streets, Threat level is severe and will be for sometime, maybe the army should be drafted in and anyone who is considered a suspect should be rounded up and held until they can be proven to be innocent ?

Huge respect and admiration for our emergency services, but they will always be stretched.

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Well if you have gangrene in your foot, you generally cut off that foot, about time we stopped pussyfooting around being PC it''s a Muslim issue and the peaceful Muslims must step up and do more to whipe out this radical idiotic ideology.

If not everyone has their breaking points, there will be sad attacks and retribution will follow. It''s all ok to keep saying we will all stand together and it''s a fantastic reaction to unite against this, but it''s getting to the point it''s happening too often and some criticism is aimed at our fantastic police, intelligence task force and our emergency services they do a fantastic job.

About time we took our streets back, our peaceful beautiful multicultural country back, if you don''t like living here, don''t like our history and culture then please feel free to bugger off somewhere else, this is a fine a wonderful country full of peace loving beautiful people, wanting to live their life, stop taking innocent lives, you sad little people!

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These acts of  suicidal terrorism are the acts of sick degenerates. The perpetrators were not human beings - they have given up the right to be called that, for killing in the name of a false cause.  Non humans carrying out non human acts in the name of a version of Islam that only exists in their heads.   They kill themselves in the process and as sick as that is in itself, their cause will never succeed - it simply cannot - because humanity will always prevail, people will always show solidarity against such acts.   Terrible as things like this are, they will never win and that is the only comfort as we watch the news or even are closer to the event for some personal reason.  

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One is full of admiration for all the public servants who deal with these in indents.

I fear however that there are many more amongst us who want to kill us, perhaps the time has come to at least deal with those we know of.

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Any of you live in Ldn or MCR? For me it''s no surprise these kinda of attacks take place in cities of this size - and obvious thing to say but how can intelligence keep tabs on everyone?

It also comes down to segregation. We all think we''re tolerant of each other and living side by side but we do fk all to interstate with each other''s cultures. I would agree with Indy, the problem is at grassroots level and Muslim communities need to start addressing this. On the same level we also shouldn''t vilify a religion that promotes peace and tolerance for the most part.

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Surely the time has come to intern those under the closest scrutiny by the security services to free up their resource to cast the net further afield.

Intern and investigate and then decide what action to take. If that requires a temporary state of emergency then so be it.

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[quote user="Van wink"]Surely the time has come to intern those under the closest scrutiny by the security services to free up their resource to cast the net further afield.

Intern and investigate and then decide what action to take. If that requires a temporary state of emergency then so be it.[/quote]Intern them?...i would deport them and give them their freedom , strap a parachute to them, put them in a plane, then shove them out...over North Korean territory. Im sure Mr. Kim would give them a warm welcome.

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I do wonder why it is called terrorism? To me it is mass murder.

Do the terrorists receive, if left alive, a more severe sentence than a murderer?

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[quote user="Crafty Canary"]I have huge respect for the emergency services who do their best to protect us and respond with great courage when these atrocities happen. May God bless them and keep them safe![/quote]Isn''t one of these mythical gods the excuse behind these atrocities Crafty?

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Van wink wrote the following post at 2017-06-04 2:27 PM:

Surely the time has come to intern those under the closest scrutiny by the security services to free up their resource to cast the net further afield.

Intern and investigate and then decide what action to take. If that requires a temporary state of emergency then so be it.

That, my friend, is literally impossible on sheer numbers alone.

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Im sure I''ve read there are around 3000 on the high risk watch list,

These are draining the resources of the security services, if they were taken out of circulation it would free up resources for wider investigations.

Secure these individuals and if there are sufficient grounds and options to deport them then do so. As for the rest, don''t give them their freedom unless we are sure they don''t present a risk to our families.

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As I said on the the other thread, deport all relatives of convicted terrorists to country of origin regardless of the number of generations here.

This would serve as a massive deterrent against committing these atrocities.

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Van wink wrote the following post at 2017-06-04 5:54 PM:

Im sure I''ve read there are around 3000 on the high risk watch list,

These are draining the resources of the security services, if they were taken out of circulation it would free up resources for wider investigations.

Secure these individuals and if there are sufficient grounds and options to deport them then do so. As for the rest, don''t give them their freedom unless we are sure they don''t present a risk to our families.

How do you decipher "high risk". And you would never read any numbers in the media, because they do not publish! What is a "wider investigation"?

Do you actually think the security services only deal with terrorism?

What you are proposing is Guatemalo Bay all over again. And that went well didn''t it?

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Van wink wrote the following post at 2017-06-04 2:27 PM:

Surely the time has come to intern those under the closest scrutiny by the security services to free up their resource to cast the net further afield.

Intern and investigate and then decide what action to take. If that requires a temporary state of emergency then so be it.

@City 2nd

That, my friend, is literally impossible on sheer numbers alone.

Not impossible, anyone suspected should be rounded up by the Army / Police and detained until happy no longer a risk, create a camp in the Brecon Becons or some where similar, if guilty of terrorism or acts that could lead to it bring back the death penalty and all the familys deported back to wherever their roots lie, no matter how many generations ago.

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Electronically tag anyone of interest, if they are on the radar then they are being watched for a reason. when the details come out about this we will hear yet again that they were known to the authorities

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We as a country need to take a lead now,some valid points already raised,stuff the human rights brigade get these parasites out of our country if there''s any links to Syria etc it''s not going to solve this s... by a long way and there''s thousands in our midst but come on if there on a watch list get them out or detain them

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I sincerely hope you don''t mean that, Lessingham - ''anyone suspected'' of what, precisely, and under what burden of proof (i.e. the one on which our whole legal system rests)? I can''t possibly think where that might go wrong...

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Those who don''t learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
What we need is more police gathering intel, and more police on our streets, not some McCarthyist witch-hunt and mass deportations.
Mass deportation is not possible by the way - it''s a stupid suggestion made by people who don''t actually comprehend how the deportation process works. There has to be somewhere to deport them to for a start, and not many countries are desperate to receive suspected terrorists back, many of them are British citizens anyway, so there''s nowhere to deport them to, 
Isn''t a fundamental principle of British democracy and law that you''re innocent until proven guilty? You can''t be punished for something you haven''t done?
I don''t know what the solution is, but mass deportations is stupid, because it isn''t practical, it isn''t legal, and how many people would be radicalised by their families being torn apart for absolutely no demonstrable reason? It''s like Trump''s Muslim ban, you start deporting people who haven''t actually done anything wrong and you are essentially putting terrorists on the streets, as that is without doubt and ISIS propaganda creator''s dream scenario.

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Lessingham Canary wrote the following post at 2017-06-04 7:00 PM:

Van wink wrote the following post at 2017-06-04 2:27 PM:

Surely the time has come to intern those under the closest scrutiny by the security services to free up their resource to cast the net further afield.

Intern and investigate and then decide what action to take. If that requires a temporary state of emergency then so be it.

@City 2nd

That, my friend, is literally impossible on sheer numbers alone.

Not impossible, anyone suspected should be rounded up by the Army / Police and detained until happy no longer a risk, create a camp in the Brecon Becons or some where similar, if guilty of terrorism or acts that could lead to it bring back the death penalty and all the familys deported back to wherever their roots lie, no matter how many generations ago.

Lessingham and VW I don''t disagree with either of you, but unfortunately the Human Rights Act, which we are signed to, and it will remain after Brexit, says you cannot. Secondly Lessingham the death penalty actually remains in this country, for acts of treason against the Crown! And what would give us the right to deport someone who owns a British passport because they were born in the uk, and are therefore English! Where do you deport them too?if you look along the family lines of many British families you will find their origins are from abroad!

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Just so I''m clear, are people really advocating internment? So say, I don''t know, 25 of those people are intent on committing a terrorist atrocity, you want to bring them together so they have chance to collaborate, learn new skills from each other etc? We all know that prisons are less than watertight here, and presumably, if you''re interning people who haven''t committed a crime, you have to give them better conditions than prison, so you''re advocating getting them together and exponentially increasing the amount of damage they will be able to cause seeing as presumably they''ll be able to chat freely?
Or are you proposing some kind of Guantanamo Bay situation?
Are we going to torture them? How exactly do we "investigate" these people when they know they''re being investigated and are being extra-cautious?
For those not yet on the radar, who don''t get rounded up, they will instantly know that nobody is onto them yet, and they will probably speed up their plans to kill people before they do pop up on someone''s radar and get interned.
Again, is this really a good solution?

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Best leave these people on the street then so that they can kill more of our children👍

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Well after reading this thread, it would appear there''s nothing can be done without breaking fundamental rights, but then you have to ask, have they any rights, does anyone attached to them who turn a blind eye have rights?

Surely there comes a time when special measures have to be implemented.

I agree wholeheartedly that our services and intelligence people are the best and deserve our full help / respect.

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Sorry, but that is completely wrong - the death penalty does NOT still exist, for any crime, and hasn''t for many a year. Our principal of ''innocent until proven guilty'' has nothing to do with the Human Rights Act, it predates it by centuries.

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