CB Hunt

[ZLF 271]

A nice steady start to our recruitment plans with Watkins and Gunn deals done before most players are back from holiday.

I see that Derby have signed Curtis Davis for a rumoured fee of just over £500k (release clause valuation). At 32 he is as old as we want to sign but for a single champs season is a decent shout I would have thought.

Interesting to read that Derby turned to him having been put off Grant Handley after they had a £4m bid rejected by toon.

Handley was one of the experience cbs that I thought would be good here - but the fee with his wages are probably beyond us if that the sort of fee we are looking at.

Anyone else on peoples radar to boost the CBs?

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Norwich are apparently in talks with Arminia Bielefeld centre back Julian Borner.

Davis and Hanley will both be on big wages, until Norwich can offload a few contracted players I wouldn''t imagine we will see any ''major'' signings.

[Icecream Snow 761]

Would have expected it to be similar to his recruitment at Huddersfield, 3-4 youngsters from Premiership clubs and 4-5 players from the German leagues for the left back, centre back and centre midfield positions.

[king canary 7,580]

I''d be seeing if Chelsea will loan Kalas out again.

[AJ 1,218]

I imagine you''re right Bethnal, until someone is sold (assuming it is likely to be Howson) the money can then be spent elsewhere.

I''d rather we didn''t sell one of our best and most consistent players though, but if he wants to go and someone is willing to pay up for him, then in the long term it helps us reinvest in a younger/hungrier squad

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

I think Dorrans is most likely to be first out the door. Howson will probably only go if the club find it hard to shift more expensive players like Naismith and Klose.

I think the club don''t necessarily need the transfer fees to make moves in the market, although they will of course help, it is mainly about freeing up wages, the money can then be reallocated into money for fees and wages.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Norwich are apparently in talks with Arminia Bielefeld centre back Julian Borner.

Davis and Hanley will both be on big wages, until Norwich can offload a few contracted players I wouldn''t imagine we will see any ''major'' signings.[/quote]Borner''s (admittedly very sparse) Wikipedia page says he is a midfielder? Bielefeld were nearly relegated from the 2. Bundesliga with the second-worst defensive record in the league, and he''s never played for a top-flight club, even at youth level... 26 years old already... on paper it looks a strange one. Know anything more about this?

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]I think Dorrans is most likely to be first out the door. Howson will probably only go if the club find it hard to shift more expensive players like Naismith and Klose.

I think the club don''t necessarily need the transfer fees to make moves in the market, although they will of course help, it is mainly about freeing up wages, the money can then be reallocated into money for fees and wages.[/quote]Any dealings have to factor in the huge drop in PL money if we don''t go up - which might point to loanees, with us then seing ''where we are'' next June.From the words coming out of the club I doubt there will be any ''old hands'' brought in to steady the ship. It will be about building for the future with younger players. We have enough coming through to help the season after next if we are still in the championship.Would Tettey still be here if his contract was up, similarly Jarvis ?

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Feedthewolf

What you are saying about Borner is exactly the same as you could have said about Schindler, who Webber signed for Huddersfield last summer.

I don''t think every signing the club makes will be 21/22 and an ''up and coming'' player - there will be a mix of older players who can drop in instantly.

Borner is definitely a defender.

[Coq au vin 0]

Wiki could be wrong

http://uk.soccerway.com/teams/germany/dsc-arminia-bielefeld/976/

Says he''s a defender on the above site. No clicky no cry

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Feedthewolf

What you are saying about Borner is exactly the same as you could have said about Schindler, who Webber signed for Huddersfield last summer.

I don''t think every signing the club makes will be 21/22 and an ''up and coming'' player - there will be a mix of older players who can drop in instantly.

Borner is definitely a defender.[/quote]Good stuff, thanks Bethnal. I guess it''s more about ''horses for courses'' and players who will fit a specific system. Don''t suppose you happen to know what system/formation Braunschweig play?

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

My main issue with us loaning Gunn is that it reduces the number of loans we can take (or at least, play) from the PL - we do rather need bodies in defence and I thought we''d be looking at a couple of loans there. This German guy could fill a gap, he''s not really played at too high a level but as Webber says, it''s about getting the right guys in for the role required.

[AJ 1,218]

Only issue with selling Dorrans is he is the only alternative for DM aside of Tettey.

Unless we actually give Thompson some playing time, of course

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

1) Dorrans isn''t a DM - he cannot tackle.

2) Can most likely get a new DM and CB with the money gained from Dorrans fee and saved on his wages.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]1) Dorrans isn''t a DM - he cannot tackle.

2) Can most likely get a new DM and CB with the money gained from Dorrans fee and saved on his wages.[/quote]I think in a 4-2-3-1 formation, Dorrans could play there alongside an upgraded version of Tettey. Admittedly Dorrans'' tackling isn''t great, but Tettey''s distribution is even worse. What I love about Dorrans is his desire to collect the ball deep and distribute it intelligently - if you''re going to play out from the back, which is important in a possession-based game (which Farke has implied he''d like to play), you need good distributors. If the formation allows Dorrans to play and distribute from deeper while being supported by an outstanding tackler with excellent stamina, I''d take that. Even the best deep-lying playmakers (Alonso, Hamann etc.) aren''t outstanding tacklers - if there was a player that had the combined skills of Dorrans and Tettey, he''d be playing Premier League football. I actually think (and hope) Dorrans will be an important part of our squad next year.Similarly, though, if Dorrans goes and Howson stays I''d settle for that too. But if we''re looking to find money, we''ll get a lot more for Howson than for Dorrans, and I think Dorrans could thrive in a possession-based system.

[Michael Bates 9]

I think we will get the Arsenal CB in on loan for next season. But we would still need 2 more CB''s in on permanent transfers.

As for a LB i''d imagine we will sign one to compete with Toffolo for the first team spot.

DM wise, Dorrans isn''t good enough. The most important aspect of the 4-1-4-1 formation is the DM''s reading of the game. Neither Tetley or Dorrans have that understanding for the role. I wouldn''t be surprised to see Farke find one in Europe that he''s known from his time at Borussia Dortmund as this position is arguably the most important position in the entire set-up/formation. Then i''m sure at the same time he may be keen to coach Thompson into the role for when we may chose to play 4-2-3-1. Even Godfrey may be given that chance also?

[GJP 79]

I think this thing about Dorrans dropping deep to get the ball and his distribution is a bit overrated.

[Guest]

Tettey can''t tackle either. Not without getting booked anyway. I wonder if he has enough for Farke''s vision. Dorrans can play a bit, Tettey can''t.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

[quote user="GJP"]I think this thing about Dorrans dropping deep to get the ball and his distribution is a bit overrated.[/quote]Under Irvine he was clearly asked to perform that function, and performed it really well every time I saw him play - although in hindsight, he probably looked really good at it because Tettey is so hopeless at it!I agree that Dorrans would not be a suitable candidate to play the DM role in a 4-1-4-1 formation, so if Farke persists with that then Dorrans would be competing for one of the two CM positions - a role in which Howson is superior. If we''re going with a 4-2-3-1 formation, however, I think Dorrans would be much better as one of the deep-lying two.I still think Dorrans would work well in a possession-based system if - and only if - the formation was suited to him. Either way, I''d far rather Tettey was sold than either Dorrans or Howson - then if either Dorrans or Howson has to go too, it would depend on the system as to who we''d be better off retaining.

[Indy 3,283]

Thinking about how things are working out, I''m of the opinion that all the senior pros have failed us over the last 18 months and if they are all shipped out we should be thankful.

Let''s be honest not many can claim to have put in the effort and quality which their wages demand of them. Howson, Oliviera, Jerome, Wes and Pinto are probably the only senior players to warrant keeping.

I''m interested in Beth''s remarks on Dorrans as it appears you don''t really rate him that much, along with Naismith & Klose really not worth keeping considering the cost per week to our club. Tettey is another who at his age might be better to move on too.

I''m hoping we can move these players on, as if no one wants to match their wages we could well end up short of funds to make the changes needed.

[Coq au vin 0]

The trouble is Naismith, Dorrans and Tettey are all ageing (in football terms at least) and on a hefty wedge. Who wants them with that baggage? And, if it''s a Champ rival coming in for them, do we bite the bullet and let them go to them with the risk that carries. Not ideal any which way because we all know we can''t really afford to keep them on especially given their patchy performances.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Indy,

I think Dorrans isn''t mobile or physical enough to carry out a role in Farke style midfield. I don''t think he is an awful player, but the squad is going to be chopped and changed significantly this summer and if players like Howson are available I think it would make much more sense to offload Dorrans first.

He will be on big wages as he came from a Premier League club and I can''t imagine he took a big wage cut to come to Norwich and frankly that money can be spent much better.

Many fans seem to want big changes at Norwich, but when it comes to actually seeing players leave they suddenly say ''nah, he''s alright. We should keep him''.

Tettey''s injuries and age are catching up with him, he doesn''t seem to be able to cover as much ground as he use to which has severely hampered his game. At his best he is by far the best DM at Norwich, he picks up a large amount of interceptions each game and harries opposing midfielders. It will be up to Webber and Farke to see if he can reach those levels anymore.

His short passing game is also very good, he generally has one of the best pass completion rates and he is also good at making himself available for a pass from teammates. He isn''t going to be making 40 yard passes, but if Norwich go the possession route then Farke won''t want the team making long passes as they result in the loss of possession more often than not.

[ZLF 271]

IF Thompson can stay fit for more than a week we will have one option.

I agree with Bethnal that Dorrans (or Howson tbh) is neither aggressive or mobile enough to support the defence effectively.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Don''t know why everyone is suddenly being so derisory about Tettey. yes he didn''t have his best season last season but he still showed in some games towards the end of the season that on his day he''s a top holding midfielder in this division and I still feel he could be an important player for us next season in a team which is properly coached (as I hope will be the case). Don''t get why so many of our fans seem to dislike him. Great player who contrary to popular belief doesn''t give the ball away too often and has often been asked to do the work of two or more players on his own during his time with us due to the fact our fullbacks get caught up the pitch so often and none of our other central midfielders can really tackle.

[SwindonCanary 455]

All the rumours are linking us with midfielders and strikers, but I''ve yet to see us after what we really need -- defenders !

[Coq au vin 0]

Why do some people think transfer windows are like shopping lists? "well, I need some defenders now, so I''l just got to the defender aisle and pick up a centre-back. hmm, need to get some strikers ''cos we''re a little short of them up top..."

You don''t think the club''s working on ALL transfers at any one time? Things happen at whatever time it takes to make them happen.

[Icecream Snow 761]

[quote user="SwindonCanary"]All the rumours are linking us with midfielders and strikers, but I''ve yet to see us after what we really need -- defenders ![/quote]

Gunn is a loan, Watkins was out of contract, and Vrancic can leave due to relegation triggering an exit clause. So far we haven''t had to negotiate a fee with a club, which is bound to take longer.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Bravo Bethnal, good post 👍

Parma

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

In terms of exits, the easy decisions have already been made with the released players.

We have a lot of players that are quite good but not amazing, and not many whose departure would be unanimously supported (Jarvis, Wildschutt maybe?).

As long as we can upgrade where we do move people on, I''m happy.

[ron obvious 1,501]

"Don''t know why everyone is suddenly being so derisory about Tettey. yes he didn''t have his best season last season but he still showed in some games towards the end of the season that on his day he''s a top holding midfielder in this division and I still feel he could be an important player for us next season in a team which is properly coached (as I hope will be the case). Don''t get why so many of our fans seem to dislike him. Great player who contrary to popular belief doesn''t give the ball away too often and has often been asked to do the work of two or more players on his own during his time with us due to the fact our fullbacks get caught up the pitch so often and none of our other central midfielders can really tackle. "

Spot on Jim.