New name ...

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]I doubt he has anywhere near the ability of Mooy.[/quote]Based on what?[quote]Sorry, but from what I''ve read and the statistics I''ve seen, this isn''t a very exciting signing. I''d prefer to have kept a tried and tested Dorrans, and most certainly Howson.[/quote]What information and statistics are those then?Are you also claiming that the Bundesliga is a worse league than the Champs in the process as well perhaps?[/quote]

Based on what? Well for a start Mooy is on the books at Manchester City, aswell as being the stand out performer in the championship last season.

Vrancic has played for two small German teams in the bundesliga and has been relegated twice in the last three seasons. His record last season was four goals and 2 assists which fails to excite.... albeit for a side that finished bottom. If he was that good you''d have thought he''d have signed for a bigger club from Paderborn after they were relegated.

We''ll see.... he just seems on paper, very average. Dorrans and Howson are more than capable in this league, and IMO the priority should be keeping them.

[Gordon Bennett 783]

Nobody knows if he will be great or sh!te, at the end of the day you have to trust the judgement of Webber and Farke. If Howson and Dorrans want to leave they will leave, not much can be done.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="Gordon Bennett"]Nobody knows if he will be great or sh!te, at the end of the day you have to trust the judgement of Webber and Farke. If Howson and Dorrans want to leave they will leave, not much can be done.[/quote]

I''m not convinced they do though.

But obviously your correct RE Vrancic, nobody knows what he''ll be like. I''m just pointing out on paper he looks a bit average.

I also find it strange that people write off existing players in favour of a new signing they know nothing about!

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]His record last season was four goals and 2 assists which fails to excite.... albeit for a side that finished bottom.[/quote]Hang on a second, Mooy got the exact same amount of goals, with 5 assists more, but Mooy did it in 4161 minutes compared to Vranjic''s 1542.So on that basis, Vranjic if he''d played the same amount of minutes as Mooy, would theoretically have got 10-11 goals with 5 assists, so equal on assists as Mooy but with over double the amount of goals, and this was in a poor Darmstadt team that are playing in a better league than the championship so with respect - WTF are you talking about here?Dorrans has been a bit-part player for every club he''s been at in the past 8 seasons, isn''t getting any younger, and is on strong wages that his lack of ability to maintain a first team place doesn''t justify. He can''t play the defensive mid role correctly due to his poor tackling and lack of relative strength, he isn''t a box-to-box player either, and whilst his distribution can be good, he frequently requires far too much time on the ball to make it happen!I just don''t see the need for negativity here, we''re getting an International midfielder (even if it is ''just'' Bosnia) for a good price, that the manager knows well and feels will do a good job for us, and instead he''s being written off before he''s even kicked a ball in a pre-season friendly ffs!Just to clarify, we are NOT going to be signing the likes of Kante to replace Tettey/Dorrans, so how about adjusting your expectations and being a bit reasonable instead?PS, I''m still waiting for the stats that clearly show that Vranjic isn''t very good, is indeed bang average and that clearly we''ve wasted our money, and also the reports/reviews/whatever to back up these stats as well please.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]His record last season was four goals and 2 assists which fails to excite.... albeit for a side that finished bottom.[/quote]Hang on a second, Mooy got the exact same amount of goals, with 5 assists more, but Mooy did it in 4161 minutes compared to Vranjic''s 1542.So on that basis, Vranjic if he''d played the same amount of minutes as Mooy, would theoretically have got 10-11 goals with 5 assists, so equal on assists as Mooy but with over double the amount of goals, and this was in a poor Darmstadt team that are playing in a better league than the championship so with respect - WTF are you talking about here?Dorrans has been a bit-part player for every club he''s been at in the past 8 seasons, isn''t getting any younger, and is on strong wages that his lack of ability to maintain a first team place doesn''t justify. He can''t play the defensive mid role correctly due to his poor tackling and lack of relative strength, he isn''t a box-to-box player either, and whilst his distribution can be good, he frequently requires far too much time on the ball to make it happen!I just don''t see the need for negativity here, we''re getting an International midfielder (even if it is ''just'' Bosnia) for a good price, that the manager knows well and feels will do a good job for us, and instead he''s being written off before he''s even kicked a ball in a pre-season friendly ffs!Just to clarify, we are NOT going to be signing the likes of Kante to replace Tettey/Dorrans, so how about adjusting your expectations and being a bit reasonable instead?PS, I''m still waiting for the stats that clearly show that Vranjic isn''t very good, is indeed bang average and that clearly we''ve wasted our money, and also the reports/reviews/whatever to back up these stats as well please.[/quote]

You plonker Indy! Of course I don''t expect us to sign the players like Kante... so no need to adjust my expectations as you put it.

Ok, so maybe stats are not a good example, but you know as well as I do how effective Mooy has been for Huddersfield. He''s been immense.

And as for your bit on Dorrans.... perhaps you need to look at the games with and without him last season? Most of our better performances were when he played with Howson. Dorrans isn''t a DM or a Box to Box midfielder, so judging him by those roles is ridiculous. Dorrans is a deep lying play maker, a role in which he does well thanks to his good touch and decent passing. As for him spending too much time on the ball, that''s an odd statement backed by very little.

I admire your optimism, but I feel like we are downgrading a little. And I haven''t said Vrancic is a waste of money.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]that''s an odd statement backed by very little.[/quote]I''m still waiting for any sort of genuine support for your views about Vranjic (Be this stats, reports or otherwise), oh the irony...

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]that''s an odd statement backed by very little.[/quote]I''m still waiting for any sort of genuine support for your views about Vranjic (Be this stats, reports or otherwise), oh the irony...[/quote]

My view on Vranjic is that hes a bit average. 4 goals and 2 assists in one season for an attacking midfielder taking the majority of set pieces, backs this view.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]My view on Vranjic is that hes a bit average. 4 goals and 2 assists in one season for an attacking midfielder taking the majority of set pieces, backs this view.[/quote]So you just want everyone to ignore the fact that Vranjic only played less than half of the time Mooy did and in a better league to boot...

[TCCANARY 263]

Mooys stats aren''t that good but stats are a stupid way of judging a player, that obviously makes me stupid because I''ve just used stats to judge a player.

2009–2010

	Bolton Wanderers	0	(0)
2010–2012	St Mirren	21	(1)
2012–2014	Western Sydney Wanderers	49	(4)
2014–2016	Melbourne City	53	(18)
2016–	Manchester City	0	(0)
2016–2017	→ Huddersfield Town (loan)	45	(4)

[Just Dan 10]

Lincoln, the bit the Pinkun did featuring Dan O''Hagan stated

"The left-footed player did that at times as a number 10 and wide left, but mostly sitting in central midfield – and that is the role Vrancic is expected to take up at Carrow Road next season."

So not sure where you getting this attacking midfielder bit from.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]My view on Vranjic is that hes a bit average. 4 goals and 2 assists in one season for an attacking midfielder taking the majority of set pieces, backs this view.[/quote]So you just want everyone to ignore the fact that Vranjic only played less than half of the time Mooy did and in a better league to boot...[/quote]

Your right, he wasn''t even a regular!? Just 23 appearances in a 36 game season for a team finishing bottom of the league..... lets hope he was injured for a bit, eh!

[westcoastcanary 173]

[quote user="lincoln canary and Golden Coppel"][quote user="westcoastcanary"]My guess is he''s destined to be our equivalent of Aaron Mooy.[/quote]

I doubt he has anywhere near the ability of Mooy.

Sorry, but from what I''ve read and the statistics I''ve seen, this isn''t a very exciting signing. I''d prefer to have kept a tried and tested Dorrans, and most certainly Howson.[/quote]In comparing Vrancic to Mooy I was referring to his role in our revamped team -- the ball receiver of choice when we regain possession and the chief instigator of our subsequent attacking play (plus principle set piece taker). Given how crucial this role is in the expected style of play, it is no surprise that this is one of our first signings. What would be surprising though, is if Webber and Farke were to be anything other than very confident that Vrancic has the necessary attributes and quality. Since Vrancic earlier played for Borussia Dortmund II and is almost certainly therefore well known to Wagner who wanted him at promoted Huddersfield, and since Webber and Farke, knowing far more about him than you or anyone else on here, have moved quickly to bring him to Carrow Road, I would suggest your writing him off is premature, not to say somewhat silly.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="lincoln canary and Golden Coppel"][quote user="westcoastcanary"]My guess is he''s destined to be our equivalent of Aaron Mooy.[/quote]

I doubt he has anywhere near the ability of Mooy.

Sorry, but from what I''ve read and the statistics I''ve seen, this isn''t a very exciting signing. I''d prefer to have kept a tried and tested Dorrans, and most certainly Howson.[/quote]In comparing Vrancic to Mooy I was referring to his role in our revamped team -- the ball receiver of choice when we regain possession and the chief instigator of our subsequent attacking play (plus principle set piece taker). Given how crucial this role is in the expected style of play, it is no surprise that this is one of our first signings. What would be surprising though, is if Webber and Farke were to be anything other than very confident that Vrancic has the necessary attributes and quality. Since Vrancic earlier played for Borussia Dortmund II and is almost certainly therefore well known to Wagner who wanted him at promoted Huddersfield, and since Webber and Farke, knowing far more about him than you or anyone else on here, have moved quickly to bring him to Carrow Road, I would suggest your writing him off is premature, not to say somewhat silly.[/quote]

I''m not writing him off..... merely saying that his stats don''t excite me, and given the choice I''d prefer to keep Howson and Dorrans.

[Coq au vin 0]

Howson and Dorrans are good. But neither irreplaceable. Neither can take free kicks particularly well, nor fit into the defending midfielder role comfortably.

If this guy Vrancic can defend in midfield, apply a decent free kick and is a corner wizard as well as being technically sound and we''re paying him less, moving forward, he''s the better option given where we stand with finances.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Mooy ,albeit, a good player at THIS level, hasn''t played for Man City, so trying to use that as a plus point, doesn''t cut it Lincoln.

[Fuzzar 1,702]

So you''d rather we kept two players without knowing what system the new coach is planning and whether they''d fit it.

I think I wait and see how this new signing and system pans out before I start complaining, if it''s all the same to you Lincoln.

[westcoastcanary 173]

@lincoln

Could you possibly edit your username to eliminate the ampersand and brackets, which prevent the quote function displaying your posts properly? "Lincoln Canary aka Golden Coppell" would do the trick for example.

Re writing Vrancic off, I fail to see what else you are doing when you say that you would prefer to keep Dorrans/Howson. The implication is we''d be better off keeping them than bringing Vrancic in. 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

I feel like this might finally be usnreplacing Bradley Johnson. Someone a bit more robust but dynamic in the middle who can get a bit of tempo and bite back in the side. Maybe a slightly classier but less physical Bradley Johnson. For all that howson does right, he could do with a bit of help in the middle to control the space.

Personally hope it''s dorrans going if one has to and we give howson another year while we still have a big chance at going up. if he leaves in Jan with us nowhere near or at the end of the season for small change, so be it, but I hope this is to help not replace howson. I do now feel a tad more comfortable if he does go tho, especially with beilik (sp) coming in as well.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

I got the impression that Vrancic is a not necessarily a defensive midfielder. But the suggestion he is someone who will work with high energy, allowing a pressing game something that Dorrans doesn''t do. If the club want to adopt this style, the management have to assess the playing staff and acknowledge there might be players who just cant work within that system, even if they are good players.

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

Tackling doesn''t seem to be his strength, according to this ''German football expert'':

"Vrančić is a very consistent, deep-lying playmaker who would operate from central midfield," Chaffer told ITV News Anglia. "Occasionally last season he played on the left, but his best and favourite position is in the middle. He is not much of a goalscorer or assist provider, however he is the link between defence and attack. At Darmstadt he began almost every attack and was the transition player, assigned to be the player who started attacks. He has a wide-range of passing skills, is able to pass between the lines and find a long ball out to a wide player. Defensively, he is always well-positioned but is not the best tackler - that is not his job, to be honest. The best use of him is in a more advanced central midfield role in which defensive work is still needed, but not essential."

More like an Ian Crook or David Fox, IMO.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

For me that''s what we need more a playmaker type

Howson is more a complete midfielder good at most things but rarely takes charge of the midfield and pulls the strings between Def and Attack

i think that''s what we missed last season someone who can really pick that pass or one who slows the game down

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

[quote user="Yelloow Since 72"]Tackling doesn''t seem to be his strength, according to this ''German football expert'':

"Vrančić is a very consistent, deep-lying playmaker who would operate from central midfield," Chaffer told ITV News Anglia. "Occasionally last season he played on the left, but his best and favourite position is in the middle. He is not much of a goalscorer or assist provider, however he is the link between defence and attack. At Darmstadt he began almost every attack and was the transition player, assigned to be the player who started attacks. He has a wide-range of passing skills, is able to pass between the lines and find a long ball out to a wide player. Defensively, he is always well-positioned but is not the best tackler - that is not his job, to be honest. The best use of him is in a more advanced central midfield role in which defensive work is still needed, but not essential."

More like an Ian Crook or David Fox, IMO.[/quote]Sounds like he is a direct replacement for Dorrans, or at least the Dorrans that Irvine was utilising towards the end of the season - someone to collect the ball deep and distribute it well. Tettey is awful at that side of the game, and while I rate Dorrans, he''s not the finished article by any means. Vrancic, Howson and either Thompson or Tettey would be a good starting point for a three-man axis in midfield. If he plays 4-2-3-1, he''d need a Tettey-style player to protect Vrancic and allow him to play, which raises question marks over where Howson would fit in. Far too many question marks at this stage, but from what this journalist says it sounds like Vrancic would be ideal at the role Irvine had Dorrans playing in the last few games.