Dodgy streams and Kodi

[lappinitup 629]

"Earlier this week, a man was given a suspended prison sentence and a

£250,000 fine for selling "fully loaded" Kodi boxes at pubs around the

United Kingdom."Wow! http://www.skysports.com/football/news/12040/10795317/premier-league-granted-court-order-to-stop-streaming-of-gamesMaybe they can stop these boxes being sold but haven''t they tried

stopping these sites from abroad once before? As soon as sites like

Wiziwig were shut down new ones were opened up using slightly different

names. I can''t see how they can stop it while they transmit in other counties.That''s some fine though. [:S]

[Rogue Baboon 0]

''"It''s in the interests of both consumers and everyone working in the creative industries that we all take piracy seriously.,

Interests of consumers? Really?

Every Prem game is shown live on TV somewhere except in the U.K. It''s no surprise then that illegal streams appear. Also, they need to realise that not everybody supportable the top 4.

I like the NFL system of a media black out within 150miles or so of stadiums when matches are not sold out, although unworkable in the U.K due to much smaller distances

[TCCANARY 263]

That guy was talking the ****, selling systems to pubs for £1,000 a pop.Co-incidently I just re-joined Sky Sports as they offered me £15 a month with no price rises for 3 years and no contract.

[cornish sam 1,040]

But Lapps, they are trying to do something about the feeds, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39206185

The PL have just obtained a court order to go after the servers, not just the specific stream/link. True this won''t stop people who know what they are doing getting around it (e.g. the blacklisting of torrent sites), but it will stop the general pleb who buys a fully loaded Kodi box and doesn''t know anything about how it works.

Whilst I agree that there is the enticement to stream matches due to the lack of availability of all matches in this country, the cost of subscriptions to M-urgh-doch, etc. It is actually theft. If people accept that and chose to do it then whilst morally iffy it''s their choice and they should accept the consequences. I do however take issue with people saying that this is legal and that there is nothing wrong at all with it.

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="cornish sam"]Whilst I agree that there is the enticement to stream matches due to the lack of availability of all matches in this country, the cost of subscriptions to M-urgh-doch, etc. It is actually theft. If people accept that and chose to do it then whilst morally iffy it''s their choice and they should accept the consequences. I do however take issue with people saying that this is legal and that there is nothing wrong at all with it.[/quote]What exactly is being stolen Sam, and who are the users supposedly stealing it from???Apparently it''s perfectly acceptable for people in virtually every other country in the world to be able to watch live Premiership football, but if you live in the UK it''s suddenly a problem?Even with a subscription to the usual suspects, you can''t guarantee you can watch your team, in fact across most seasons in the prem, we''ve featured only 5-6 times, compared to the 14-16 times you see the likes of Liverpool or Man City, which is even more unfair when you consider both sets of fans pay the exact same monthly price to watch the games...

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

I find the best way of watching your team''s games is to actually go the matches.

Fans shouldn''t have everything handed to them on a plate when it comes to broadcasting matches. If this was the case I expect crowds would fall.

[cornish sam 1,040]

Well Indy, Intellectual Property is the article being stolen. Streaming a football match is no different to downloading a film, an album or a piece of software. Yes it is more transient, but that doesn''t reduce the value of it. As to who it is being stolen from, it''s being stolen from the rights holders.

I fully agree that if people around the world can watch every match we should be able to as well, however, the law in this land dictates that we can''t watch any matches that kick off at 3pm on a saturday. One might argue this is an outdated law, but it is a law none the less. I also like the NFL model of a media blackout within a certain distance of the match if it isn''t sold out, but that is difficult to work in this country. My personal preference would be for people to be able to subscribe to their club and be able to stream all of their matches, however, the challenge to that is that it would start to undermine collective bargaining that means all teams in the PL have (in theory) an even split of the TV money, it would give more weight to the big teams trying to sell their rights themselves like Barca and Real Madrid.

[Rogue Baboon 0]

I dont know if it would stop people going to Premier League games, I think the issue is how it would filter down to League One or League Two.

For example, I am sure I once saw the argument in terms of West Ham v Leyton Orient. In 5/10 years time, would Leyton Orient have a ''younger'' fan base if kids could watch all of West Ham games live on TV - kids would naturally lean towards West Ham & get to the odd game instead of going to every Orient home game

[cornish sam 1,040]

Oh, and just to make absolutely clear, I am not arguing in favour of over inflated Sky prices or big business and I don''t agree that the current situation is desirable. As I said in my first post, I just take issue with people deluding themselves that there is nothing at all wrong with this.

I myself have been known to stream and download things, but I have done that with my eyes open and have made a decision that I am morally comfortable with.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Sometimes when an away game has been on Sky, I''ve sometimes decided to watch on the TV rather than going. I know others that do too. Especially if it''s a long trip to Newcastle etc. I wonder how it would affect our away crowds if there was an option to watch all of them on TV - might even filter down to our home games.

[SwindonCanary 457]

I''m a prime user of Virgin, I have land line phone, mobile phone and 3 top of the range TV boxes but on top of that I''ve a Kodi box.  It was in the press the other day that Virgin would send letters to viewers using Kodi boxes, I told my family that if I received one I''d threaten to leave and see what they say, as the last time I said I wanted out, I had my bill halved for a year !

[The Bristol Nest 597]

Kodi is a free media player downloadable from Google play. Nothing illegal about that.

[Baldyboy 1]

If Sky and BT didn''t charge such high prices in order to justify the ridiculous prices they''ve paid for football then nobody would need to use illegal sites! Fact is Sky has so much garbage on they are now losing endless customers and are trying desperately to entice them back with free tv, I know because they''ve done it with me

[Ginja 43]

The music industry is a great example of how to really tackle the problem of piracy, I grew up through the golden age of music piracy, Napster, WinMX, Limewire, Oink and then What.cd. The arrival of DRM free music and then streaming services has killed any desire by the average person to pirate music, it''s all about availability and affordability and £10 a month to have all the music you could ever want to listen to wherever you go easily trumps the time and effort to pirate the material. Film and TV has seen the light as well with Netflix and Amazon Prime, though not perfect it only going to get better.

If football really wants to win the whack a mole game then history has shown that the only way is to beat the pirates at their own game. Give the public easy access to what they want and at a sensible price.

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="Ginja"]The music industry is a great example of how to really tackle the problem of piracy, I grew up through the golden age of music piracy, Napster, WinMX, Limewire, Oink and then What.cd. The arrival of DRM free music and then streaming services has killed any desire by the average person to pirate music, it''s all about availability and affordability and £10 a month to have all the music you could ever want to listen to wherever you go easily trumps the time and effort to pirate the material. Film and TV has seen the light as well with Netflix and Amazon Prime, though not perfect it only going to get better.

If football really wants to win the whack a mole game then history has shown that the only way is to beat the pirates at their own game. Give the public easy access to what they want and at a sensible price.

[/quote]If you''ve never had to press play & record (AT THE SAME TIME) whilst ensuring the microphone is close enough to the radio then you''ve not experienced the ''golden age''. [:)]

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Good post ginja 👍🏻

Although with Spotify, with nearly every album at your disposal, it''s almost too much choice! Good problem to have though 😄

[cornish sam 1,040]

So Baldyboy, I''m going to play devil''s advocate here.

Firstly there is an argument that you have got it the wrong way round here, Sky started paying a lot of money for the football to get people to pay the high prices, the amount they have paid for the football is a function of the pricing model, not the other way round.

Secondly, by that logic you could justify people stealing trainers (for example) because the companies charge ridiculous amounts for trainers whilst paying sports personalities hundreds of millions of pounds. Do you steal trainers or just accept that it''s something that you can do without?

Finally, the issue isn''t so much the amount of garbage that is on Sky (or Virgin, or BT, or freeview for that matter) which is driving the customer numbers down, it''s rather the rise in non-linear viewing through services such as iPlayer (fantastic value as part of your license fee BTW), NetFlix and Amazon Prime, that are reducing subscription levels. People are no longer interested in what is in the schedule, which removes the need for a traditional subscription. I imagine that numbers for NowTV are doing really well because people are paying their 10 or 15 quid a month just to have access to the ''BoxSets''. Similarly, the ''day pass'' for SkySports is an attempt to get into the casual market of people who don''t want a subscription but want to watch a specific game, the price point is too high, but it is a sign of things to come.

[Captain Birdseye 0]

Whilst clubs like ours have plastic fans we will always have an issue with illegal streams

I think 40 lashes is an appropriate punishment for anyone watching illegal streams

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="They call me the Chihauhau"]Whilst clubs like ours have plastic fans we will always have an issue with illegal streams

I think 40 lashes is an appropriate punishment for anyone watching illegal streams[/quote]Because of illegal streams I think all clubs will eventually sell all their games on a pay-per-view basis. Once they realise they can''t beat them, they''ll have to join them - only do it properly.Let''s not forget, the Waveney started out as a stream. [:D]

[Guest]

I think Lapps is absolutely right.

Clubs should be able to stream their games through a hub like SKY or BT and we pay a premium to watch per game.

People pay to go to matches, they pay to go to the cinema and they pay for downloads of music.

But in Britain its quick profit and take your chances. But if they just thought about it there is money to be made across the board. I would quite happily pay a tenner to watch City matches down here in Cornwall. I would happily pay a fiver to have an "in theatre" movie streamed to my house. And quite happy to pay 20p to download a track of music.

I have just downloaded much of the Alison Krauss album by watching Youtube and using software to download. I will not pay a tenner a month as I might not use it for a month. But they could have had a quid out of me for the tracks I downloaded. They have lost out.

I am a member of my local cinema which also has a nice bar and restaurant. Most things are discounted (except popcorn and M&Ms) but if my wife and I go to the cinema it is still £15 just for the movie. Let me stream it for a fiver and we all win.

I know many cinemas may close and people will be out of work but the same applies to plastic bag manufacturers, cigarette manufacturers, coal mines etc.

[Lessingham Canary 108]

Lappinitup wrote;

Because of illegal streams I think all clubs will eventually sell all their games on a pay-per-view basis. Once they realise they can''t beat them, they''ll have to join them - only do it properly.

Agree, clubs are missing a trick here, crazy to think they can beam back so many fixtures a season (think the number is restricted?) i would happily pay to watch midweek matches that are too far to travel on a pay per view deal, and would gladly pay a tenner for each one.

[Essjayess 307]

As bristolcanary said, Kodi is a free , legal, media player system, easily available from a place like Google. Also the European Court of Justice ruled in 2014 that the "end user" was not doing anything illegal by receiving and watching streamed sources, wether those sources themselves were legal or illegal. That is of course, on the proviso that the person  receiving the stream, does so as a private user, and without the intent of using said stream him or herself to stream to others, which is most certainly illegal.Seems companies like Sky now have more power to actually go after the source of illegal streams, although what constitutes illegality and how successful they will be in their endeavours is beyond my  knowledge  for sure.

[Ginja 43]

[quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="Ginja"]The music industry is a great example of how to really tackle the problem of piracy, I grew up through the golden age of music piracy, Napster, WinMX, Limewire, Oink and then What.cd. The arrival of DRM free music and then streaming services has killed any desire by the average person to pirate music, it''s all about availability and affordability and £10 a month to have all the music you could ever want to listen to wherever you go easily trumps the time and effort to pirate the material. Film and TV has seen the light as well with Netflix and Amazon Prime, though not perfect it only going to get better.

If football really wants to win the whack a mole game then history has shown that the only way is to beat the pirates at their own game. Give the public easy access to what they want and at a sensible price.

[/quote]If you''ve never had to press play & record (AT THE SAME TIME) whilst ensuring the microphone is close enough to the radio then you''ve not experienced the ''golden age''. [:)][/quote]

Actually I do remember doing that! but I had the luxury of a tape deck that would record straight from the radio [;)] oh the joy of trying to correctly hit stop before the radio presenter would start yapping again lol

[SwindonCanary 457]

Clubs could sell all their games on a pay-per-view basis, if they are worried about attendance then do it the way they do in the USA where it''s broadcast all over the country apart from the locality of the match.

[Ginja 43]

[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]Good post ginja 👍🏻

Although with Spotify, with nearly every album at your disposal, it''s almost too much choice! Good problem to have though 😄[/quote]

Yes I know what you mean! It''s getting the same issue with Netflix as well, so much good stuff to watch, add to that the backlog of games to play on Steam and PS4, what a time to be alive, never before have we had so much culture and entertainment at our fingertips, but you raise an interesting point as I do often find myself a bit paralysed by having so much to choose from!

[Guest]

There is a growing opinion that much of the objection to intellectual property theft or copyright infringements is from government agencies who, not particularly in love with Hollywood and its apparent centre left views or the music industry that is heavily dominated by black artists (in the USA), are not able to control what and how you receive your information.

And their very own files are not secure enough to be prevented from global publication.

I essence, they couldn''t give a monkey''s about piracy involving music, movies or sport. And the ruling that the end user is not breaking the law seems to back that theory.

[im spartacus canary 0]

Fu(k them they''ll never take me alive 😠

[Guest]

[quote user="im spartacus canary "]Fu(k them they''ll never take me alive 😠[/quote]

They will. I saw you on the cross.

[Bill 1,788]

Pay per view is not going to happen. Clubs are not going to want to be dragged backwards, to the days when attendances fluxuated wildly. Check how many were at Carrow Road the game after Leicester in the cup in ''63.Season tickets remove those huge fluctuations so allowing clubs to have the correct number of staff, and goods available om match days - and too also budget for the season. Allowing individual sales of televised games would undoubtedly blow a huge hole in this. Similarly film distributors would not want to put their outlets (cinemas) at risk by removing their main selling point ie you cannot see the film elsewhere. Cinemas are also able to charge per person, something that cannot be controlled when sending films directly to a house.Advertising deals are done on the basis of a ''guaranteed'' audience number. If it is understood that football games now are as much a part of putting an audience in front of an advert as they are the other way round then you will understand why the flow (audience) has to be kept consistent, and that you the consumer is there to benefit them, again not the other way around.. That should be apparent if only in the way broadcasters can change the time and dates of games. To suit you the supporter, I think not ?However it is not a one way street, and folk have found a way round these controls - it''s just that this chap was doing it on such a basis that it was inevitable he would be caught. I should imagine that he knew that but supposed the huge earnings would dwarf any fine. Well in this case he might even have just achieved that as the fine appears to be nought, not a penny. Which must have come as a huge relief.... until he found the prosecution costs were £170,000 and he must also cough up another £80,000 in proceeds of crime ie what the court estimated he had made.Let''s hope he has been playing Monopoly as well and has a row of houses to sell, as being a Hartlepool resident thast what he''ll need to raise £250,000. And if he doesn''t I suspect it will be a case of Go to Jail...

[Making Plans 957]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4297310/Premier-League-gets-piracy-court-order-ban-streams.html