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Worthington - "I don't care what the fans think - I'm in charge"

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Yep, it''s Worthy''s team and he makes the decisions, not us. But please respond with a little more dignity Nigel - 24,000 people, including me, suffered the dross that was served up to them yesterday.

I don''t care what Nigel says if he can answer us on the pitch - ie Neil "Colin" Warnock is always having a pop at his fans, but they sit top of the league.

Yesterday for NCFC though, more of the same.

No passion, no movement, no creativity, mindboggling substitutions, same old mistakes, gave the ball away too often, can''t hit a cows backside with a banjo, ALWAYS OFFSIDE WHEN CROSSES COME IN AND ALWAYS FOULING WHEN HEADING, bad choice of starting lineup.

See ya Nige.

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I''ve listened to the relevant bits of the interview 3 times now. The English language is a funny old thing.

What he actually said was "I''m not bothered about what the fans say ..." He also said it in throwaway manner, because what has really brought him up short was the interviewer''s previous remarks about "not getting going"

To me, what he was saying was that he can''t make a decision about substitutions based on possible supporter reaction. I''m afraid I agree with that. The point is whether or not the team is successful as a result.

Clearly, at the moment, not. I suspect, in the short term, you could employ anybody (or nobody) & things would improve. In the longer term I still think he can get it right.

He is trying to build a classier, more attractive footballing team. Signing players like Ashton & Colin epitomises this. However, he is in a situation where he has no time to build ; other teams have come flying out of the blocks determined to beat "better" clubs like Norwich. A lot of them are playing way, way above themselves. This will not continue.

So I still think Worthington can get promotion. I reckon about half-way up the table by Christmas, followed by a steady climb.

BUT he does have to change. I hope he does take comments about "not getting going"  seriously. He has to instill some real passion, a real will to win. He is right that luck has not been with Norwich - that will even out over the season. What is needed is the mental power to just get that bloody ball over the opposition goal-line, even when everything''s going against you.

Still going as I predicted ...

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[quote]you need to clean your ears out dicky that was one heck of alot of boos mate[/quote]

And those of us in the South (Jarrold!!) Stand were looking at each other, shaking heads and asking what the hell was going on!!!

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[quote]Maybe you didn''t hear it Dick because you had your head so far up Worthington''s backside at the time?[/quote]

Quote: 90% did not boo the decision, most fans would never boo.
 
Dicky - are you really Nigel?   I admire your devotion and optimism, but even you with your most tinted glasses on can''t be happy with the team''s performance this season?    Would you not agree that given the experience of the squad and the potential skills that they posess, the team should be doing so much better than they are?
 
We''re all entitled to our opinions on this forum, something that I vehemently support, but you do seem to be showing a worrying lack of understanding or acknowledgement of the fundamental problems at the heart of this problem...
 
One quick question to the moderators too - perhaps you might know the answer, perhaps not, but why are you not carrying the story of Worthy''s comments - is it just because it''s Sunday?   Or are we seeing some more of that self censorship that the Pink''Un sometimes appears to carry out when the relationship with the club might be affected?   Or am I just being a bitter old cynic?!!!

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Guys, dont get wound up by Dicky, I am sure he is just saying this to get a good debate going....if this is not the case he clearly has no clue on football, values of the fans and who and what makes a good manager!

I some how think the later might be the case...still everyone has an opinion otherwise the world would be a boring place....its just hard to see how that opinion is formulated...keep it up Dicky you make me laugh if nothing else

 

OTBC

 

St.John

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[quote]Maybe you didn''t hear it Dick because you had your head so far up Worthington''s backside at the time?[/quote]

Marmite you are simply discourteous and abusive to fellow Message Board members.  Unfortunately for you that pretty much negates all that you say in my book.  You call Worthy "a complete idiot" (patently ludicrous whether or not you agree with him) and people who do not agree with you you abuse.  Please do not come back with the old "I''m angry, I have a right to be angry" type argument.  How the moderators allow such abuse on to the boards I cannot understand.  I come on here only occasionally these days because I''d prefer not to be the subject of abuse simply for holding different opinions.  Abuse does not equal argument.  Argument is always valid, abuse is never valid.

Sorry rant over.

August 64

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Having listened to the interview last night on the radio, and several times again today (thanks to the guys who posted the links -especially the mp3 one), I really don''t think his comments are that bad. It isn''t as though he went into a rant...he merely answered a question in a fairly blunt way expressing that he is responsible for decisions.

Certainly Chris Goreham didn''t think it was particularly contentious as he moved on to another question without expressing any surprise in the reply.

We should also be aware that Worthington didn''t say he didn''t care what the fans "think", he actually said he didn''t care what the fans "say"....and as any psychologist will tell you there is a huge difference in the underlying meaning of those two words.

However, as he admits he and his coaching staff are responsible for the decisions that are made, then he ought to resign anyway

 

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Love your riposte to Dicky, Marmite. What is the old saying? ''Never a truer word spoken in jest'' or something like that. Anyway, I am one of the Worthy out brigade and have been so for some time. Yes, he did get us promotion but as far as I''m concerned the big, big test was keeping us there and he failed that miserably. I know that Sunderland are floundering but look at Wigan and West Ham''s start to their campaigns. All that we got from Worthy was ''be patient and the win will come'' but how long did that take? What''s his record from the last 48 odd league games? About 9 wins I think. Says it all really. When Worthy goes please, please, please don''t let Delia (bless her) select his successor. Remember Hamilton and Rioch?

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BedsCanary - I could have written the same piece myself almost word for word.

As for 90% debate, Dicky. Are you just being pedantic? Perhaps it was 89% eh? Surely, if you Worthy''s imaginary tongue out of your ear you could concede it was the majority.

It is obvious you share Worthy''s contempt for the fans and the feeling is reciprocated.

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[quote]Maybe you didn''t hear it Dick because you had your head so far up Worthington''s backside at the time?[/quote]

Yeah, really clever, mature post. Well done.

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Had I been Worthington, and was faced with this question, my reply would have been thus.  "I expect that most Norwich fans will have been dissapointed with the result today, The decisions that I make to the team during the game, if things are not going to my expectations, are done to alter the pattern and improve things in the way I see fit. If the change does''nt work out then I have to hold my hands up as being responsible. To those fans who disagree with those decisions I say "tough" as I am the person steering the ship, I have to say thanks for all your great support of the team at our home and away games. In my defence  If my choice of the tactics had been successful and we had won, I take it there would have been satisfaction on all sides, but I''m afraid that in football it does''nt always go our or my way" 

To Mr Worthington, Beelsie says, "I have backed you as manager, loyally during your spell at NCFC.  Including your errors of judgement and sometimes strange decisions regarding substitutions etc,etc. Expecting that you would learn by those mistakes and eventually go on to be our manager of some repute and worth, however by your making such a basic error of judgement and disregarding the feelings of your fan base, and by making such a ridiculous statement you will have alienated me. Still! I do''nt suppose you care".

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[quote]thought you might like to read this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb606/F2231914?thread=1084657 absolutely disgraceful he should be sakced on the spot[/quote]

I really doubt that Nigel actually said that! lets be realistic hear! I know that most people on hear are now trying to find absolutely anything, no matter how out-of-this-world it is, 2 get on Worthys back! oh, maybe Worthy''s secretly working for Ipswich town fc,...yes i guess that would explain why he took WLY off, wouldn''t it!!!  

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Actually to be fair to Worthy (not that I''m a fan) this is being taken a little bit out of context. From the interview the words are:

Goreham: Substitutions in the second half, Paul McVeigh came off. Some of the fans didn''t seem too happy about that.

Worthington: I''m not bothered about what the fans say. I''m in charge. I make decisions with the coaching staff and that''s as straight forward and as simple as that.

In the context of Goreham poser, Worthy''s answer is what you would expect. As Dicky pointed out Worthy is the man responsible for the team selection, tactics and substitutions, NOT the fans. Worthy and his staff made the decision to take McVeigh off. 24000 might not have agreed but as Worthy points out they''re opinion in this particular matter - doesn''t matter.

Unfortunately for Worthington, as a sound bite, the quote "I''m not bothered about what the fans say. I''m in charge" is what is being reiterated. Taken out of it''s context it does seem to be quite a scathing, unfeeling attack on the fans from the man in charge. Combined with Goreham''s comment it Is no such thing.

And for the record I would not consider myself one of the Worthy fan brigade.

...

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[quote]Actually to be fair to Worthy (not that I''m a fan) this is being taken a little bit out of context. From the interview the words are: Goreham: Substitutions in the second half, Paul McVeigh came off....[/quote]

I agree, as I stated in my post, Worthy isnt directly saying he doesnt care what fans think. He is simply saying he makes the decisions and to that end, the fans can think what they want, as theyre not the ones bringing on the subs, he is.

Whether he''s right or not is a subjective test anyhow..

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The incident of which I spoke of on 606 and carrowroad.net are in my opinion true. I didn''t make it up, I''m not that clever The man who told me this seemed very genuine and after his comments on radio you have to think that it is probable that this happened. We know how he treats players with an opinion so why can''t we believe he''d say something of this nature to a supporter. All I know is what the man said to me, but Worthy does seem like the kind of person to always have the last word, whether it be offensive or not. Get rid of him now! Disgrace

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I think it''s pretty clear that he was saying he doesn''t care if fans boo his decisions - he will take them anyway. If people weren''t calling for his head right now this wouldn''t even have been picked up on.

He also said maybe it would be better to aim for playing badly and fluke 1-0 wins, but I guess this sarcasm was lost on most people.

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Forgive me if this sounds a little stupid but why would you let someone with concussion take a penalty? 

As for Worthington, I think he needs to start to care what we think.  This club would be nothing without its fans.  He''s more than happy to take the plaudits when things go well and pick up his big pay cheque each week.  The guy needs to take responsibility when we hit a wall. 

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[quote]I wouldnt say 90% of people were booing. More like 90% of people thought it was an awful decision. I would never boo, but count me in the number that thought it was a poor decision.[/quote]

90% of people in the Snakepit booed the decision.

These holier than thou people who claim they will ''never boo'' annoy me. Booing is the opposite of cheering. If you can''t air your disatisfaction with a certain decision or event, then the powers that be will never know any different and carry on making ridiculous mistakes.

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As I have said before worthy has lost my support, No person in a top position in the club should make those sort of comments. If we are waiting for delia to take action I think we will be waiting along time.

Worthy and delia are well suited, remember delia''s "lets be havin u" that was totally humilating and so is worthy with those comments yesterday.

Delia got away with it, so i''m sure worthy thinks he will.

many people are disgusted with him and so am I.

I will show what i think in anyway i choose if that means booing or anti worthy chanting then so be it.

you time is up worthy........

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I don''t think its all about what Worthington said its about the poor standard of football that we have been watching for some time his comments have just fuelled further alienation.

With the squad at his disposal we expected a better start but lesser squads are better organised and starting from the first whistle playing until the final whistle. Under Worthington players seem too comfortable it is hard to remember games where we have played the full ninety minutes. Tactics are baffling. We are much better passing the ball on the ground but still thump it up to the front.With a good coach I think we would be further up the table.

Whether or not I boo will be a reaction to what I see happening on the pitch the same as jumping up when we score a goal. We dont buy shoddy goods and then not complain but going back to Carrow Rd the next day to complain just doesn''t work.  

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I can''t believe some of the rubbish which is being spouted on this thread. It''s political correctness gone mad. Oh no someone said something slightly non conformist I MUST make a fuss. I can''t stand people like that. I believe in people who are brave enough to stand up and say it how it is, even if it offends people. Call me naive, but political correctness is destroying a lot of things. And lets face it, all Worthington was saying was "I''m the manager, and I''m in charge".

Firstly, half of you have taken what is a throwaway remark completely out of context and made something out of it when all Worthington was saying was "I''m the manager and I make the decisions not the fans." That is effectively is what he was saying. And in my opinion he was 100% correct to say so. Some of you are clearly just letting off steam on other issues like our poor start to the season and using this as ammunition, although using this is actually like using blanks as it''s not actually an issue. Results are the issue.

I''ll say it again. Results are the issue. Not this.

As for the "he needs to keep the customers on side or he''s lost it" rubbish argument, well it''s a non-starter. All people care about it is the team winning. Why should you care if the manager doesn''t care what you SAY (note not think). One week you say Worthington''s the saviour the next week you''re condeming him. Most fans here blow hot and cold and change their minds as quickly as the wind changes direction. You change your minds on formations. You all have your favourites although won''t admit to it (most fans will never criticise Shackell or Ashton for example clear favourites even if they are playing very average and no better than Worthy''s favourites such as Fleming). If we win against Hull and Brighton, suddenly everything will be okay again. Face it, if I was a manager I wouldn''t care what the fans say! They change their minds so often!

And lets look again. Had Ashton actually scored that penalty, then NONE of this would''ve kicked off. Is it really a fine line between outrage and salvation on these boards? It''s rediculous. As for someone saying "why was Ashton allowed to take the penalty as he was suffering from concussion?" Ummm, I think if he was suffering from concussion he would''ve been subbed off well before the 90th minute as he wouldn''t have been able to run around let alone do something relatively simple as shoot at a goal. That has got to be one of the more redicolous things to have been said on this thread.  Yes I know he banged his head. But he was fine or he would''ve come off. The club doctor looked at him for christ''s sake!

As for the subsitutions - the manager can never win. If he leaves it and we lose everyone says why didn''t he do this or that. If he changes it and we lose everyone says why did he do this and not that. If he brings Huckerby on and he scores suddenly Worthington is a hero again. Some fans are losing sight of reality.

The bottom line is we''re not actually that far away. We just need to learn to play to our strengths which is to attack. And to play Huckerby and Mcveigh in the starting 11 together. I predict 6 points from the next two games.

 

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Poirot, I don''t think the reaction of so many people is political correctness. A lot of us are fed up with the inept management of the team over the past 16 months or so, examples of which have been put forward on countless occasions on this message board. The fans stuck with the team through last season''s disappointing campaign. Supporters have put their hands in their pockets to buy shares to help the Club.

So far this season, we have had the biggest total of supporters in the Division through the turnstiles at Carrow Road. We see a team that should be at least in the top six of the Division just one point above the relegation zone. As you say, results are all, and our results in a poor standard of League this season don''t lie. 

So Worthington''s comment yesterday just served to rub salt in the wounds.

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I agree that the remark has been taken a bit out of context.
It was me I''m afraid!

I posted it because it was still very contentious, and was a very stupid thing to say even though he''s stating the obvious. I didn''t like the tone in which he said it, as if he totally discards what fans think, because they know nothing.
I object to that as its patently not true.

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Thank you for the invitation to call you naive Poirot. It makes what I have to say much easier. You have taken 7 paragraphs and approximately 700 words to rubbish what everyone else has had to say on an issue that irritated enough people to see this thread go through 5000 hits like a scalding knife through butter. As I said at the outset of this thread, everyone realizes that Nigel is in charge and has the right to make the calls as he sees fit. It was extremely foolish, therefore, for him to feel the need to make that point while at the same time saying he cannot be bothered by what the fans say. Deflect the question, answer in a positive way, anything but what Nigel said at a time when, given the teams performance this year, it was sure to irritate unnecessarily. ( beelsie gave examples of what could have been said ).

This is not about political correctness. It''s about Nigel failing to act appropriately for some time now and Saturday''s match decisions and post-match rhetoric are just more examples of a man that is failing to effectively manage a group that should be achieving a heck of a lot more. He realizes it and he is getting testy. That''s understandable. When one listens to the interview within the first two or three questions the most telling part was the pregnant pauses before Nigel responded. You could almost feel him biting his tongue so goodness knows what he really wanted to say. Regardless, he''s paid the big money to accept responsibility and the consequences for what is occurring, and that''s what will happen unless he turns this ship around with ongoing good performance and results. You at least got that bit right.

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This is an excellent post Canary Poirot even though I may disagree with the main sentiment, you put forward good arguments.

All I would reiterate again is that the complaint against Worthy following ''that'' comment is NOT whether he was right or wrong to make the substitution or whether he is the ''man in charge'' or not BUT the remark that '' I''m not concerned with what the fans say''. I am as passionate as you in hating the political correctness, liberal type society that has grown up over several years now but this has absolutely nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with a manager point blank refusing to acknowledge that his customers were dissatisfied. Any manager (in any business) who starts going down that line will end up without a job.

If Worthy wants to be blunt and say it ''how it is'', then fine but he can''t have it both ways. He ended the interview with Goreham by, once again,pleading for the fans to ''get behind the team again'' on Tuesday. So he wants full, unbridled support at all times but doesn''t give a damn what the fans may say!! How very strange!

 

 

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[quote]I can''t believe some of the rubbish which is being spouted on this thread. It''s political correctness gone mad. Oh no someone said something slightly non conformist I MUST make a fuss. I can''t stand p...[/quote]

Political correctness ?? This is nothing to do with political correctness, I heard what Worthington and the manner in which he said it, he may well have meant "I''m the manager and I make the decisions not the fans" but that''s not what he said. He said he didn''t care about the fans, now whether said in the heat of the moment or not to me it indicates an underlying disrespect for us - his customers who contribute to his and the players wages. I was and still am amazed and annoyed that he said something so crass, an apology is overdue. This has nothing to do with how the team (and Worthington) performed, we have unfortunately to accept football is now a business and his remarks are absolutely appalling PR and customer service - if I treated my customers like that I''d be in trouble.

Come on Nigel show you''ve got guts, admit you made a serious error in what you said in the aftermath of the game, explain what you really meant (unless you really don''t care about the fans) and apologise now (before it''s too late).  Over the PA on Tues before kick off might be a good idea (perhaps even lead on the ball city !!)

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I have returned from the dead to post on this topic as I have a strong opinion on this.

 

As per my name and my continued defence of Worthy, I am a fan of his.

 

However, he has over-stepped the mark this time.  That comment was a disgrace and I think a formal apology might save his job (for the time being), but fear that with our poor start and now this comment that his time is already up...

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I''m not really upset with what Worthington said but I can understand why some are.  It has been taken out of context and ultimately it is true but I can see no reason why he ever needed to say it.  It''s caused a big division between him and the fans and he has even managed to alienate fans like Ronbol who have stood up for him time and again.

What is more telling to me is that he appears to feeling the pressure and is not dealing with it too well.  He was obviously upset that Goreham did not stick to the "script" of pre-match interviews and was clearly not ready to answer the questions posed.

The biggest problem of all this for Worthington is that he has no shield to protect him from the fans.  Results and performances have not been good enough, if they had then maybe he would have gotten away with that comment.

I don''t think the answer is to sack him,yet but he needs a win on Tuesday now or he is really in trouble.

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" everyone realizes that Nigel is in charge and has the right to make the calls as he sees fit "

So why get some half wit to shove a mike in his face and ask him the opposite ?

ps cheers about the political correctness stuff poirot - it has truly become one of the all time cretinous replies of our generation

anything that smacks of social reform or the need to require people to consider others is met with the same parrot like screech

even the dear old daleks had more thought in their replies

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