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The Great Mass Debater

Squad Overhaul - Your Ins and Outs

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This is out current squad lit, please add anyone I''ve missed. The squad needs freshening up. If you were in charge, who would you keep (if you could) and who would you ship out?

1 GK John Ruddy OUT

2 DF Steven Whittaker OUT

3 DF Mitchell Dijks IN

4 MF Graham Dorrans OUT

5 DF Russell Martin (captain) OUT

6 DF Sébastien Bassong OUT

7 FW Steven Naismith OUT

8 MF Jonny Howson (vice-captain) IN

9 FW Nélson Oliveira IN

10 FW Cameron Jerome IN

11 MF Matt Jarvis OUT

13 GK Paul Jones IN

14 MF Wes Hoolahan IN

15 DF Timm Klose OUT

17 MF Yanic Wildschut IN

18 MF Youssouf Mulumbu OUT

19 FW Kyle Lafferty OUT

20 MF Tony Andreu OUT

21 MF Alex Pritchard IN

22 FW Jacob Murphy IN

23 DF Harry Toffolo IN

24 DF Ryan Bennett OUT

25 DF Ivo Pinto IN

26 DF Michael Turner OUT

27 MF Alexander Tettey OUT

28 MF James Maddison IN

30 FW Carlton Morris IN

31 FW Josh Murphy IN

33 GK Michael McGovern OUT

34 MF Louis Thompson IN

35 MF Ben Godfrey IN

-- GK Declan Rudd OUT

-- GK Remi Matthews IN

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I would agree with most of the puts but think we should keep ruddy martin dorrans and tettey. This is a squad game and some of these may be in the back up role. I do not think we will have the finance to bring in double figures of new players but defence in particular two new cbs and a younger more consistent defensive midfielder should be top of the shopping list. Goals and home form is fine goals against and approach to away games is the obvious problem

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Whilst I take your point, I decided to boot them simply to add some new drive. They''ve all been here a fair while now and may simply be too comfortable. Dorrans is a good player who we''ve not had too long, but he doesnt scream hunger to me and is totally replaceable

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Too many out - we simply could not afford to replace them all.

I would keep Whittaker, as unpopular as it may be. Hard to find cover who could play both LB or RB if required

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I put this in a different thread, so apologies for repeating myself:

I’m not getting too bogged down with positions, these are taken from Wikipedia. I also have not included players that are not in the current first team squad, but may be candidates for the squad next season. It’s apparent that so much will hinge on the new regime to improve what we have and add to it. At the moment that seems like a big ask!

Position Name Decision

GK John Ruddy Keep: worth a gamble that he can recapture his form of old

GK Michael McGovern 50/50: he can do a job, but I wouldn’t feel confident with him as my No1 throughout the season. If the new regime can get the best out of him consistently, then he’d be a great asset. Otherwise, I’d be happy for him to go elsewhere, but would anyone want him?

GK Paul Jones Keep: well respected keeper and could certainly fill in if we were struck down with injuries in this position

GK Declan Rudd Keep: Only 26, so plenty of time for him to mature into a top keeper. I always think he looks a bit lightweight. Another season loan may help to make a decision on his future here.

GK Remi Matthews Keep: Good prospect. Another loan would be great experience for him.

DF Steven Whittaker Unload: He’s versatile, but hasn’t really been up to snuff for some time now.

DF Mitchell Djiks Keep: Unlikely, but we should do our best to convince him the future here is bright.

DF Russell Martin Keep: He’s a good captain and would give us continuity through the inevitable transition period. He must expect and respect that his playing time will be reduced though.

DF Seb Bassong Unload: A shadow of the player he once was for which the coaching staff and the man himself must shoulder the blame. He’s stagnated elsewhere in his career before being moved on. I think he was lucky that our lack of options at CB gave him another chance.

DF Timm Klose Keep: There’s a good player in there. It just needs coaching out of him.

DF Ryan Bennett Keep: Potentially there may be a good player in there. The caveat is that decimating the squad is unrealistic, so I think he should stay for now.

DF Ivo Pinto Keep: One of the few players whose attitude this season cannot be questioned. He’s a good attacking full back that can improve his defending.

DF Michael Turner Unload: I think he is only here because of a clause in his contract.

DF Harry Toffolo Keep: Will be a good option at LB and may have the appetite to make the position his own given a chance.

MF Graham Dorrans Keep: On his day he can make the midfield tick.

MF Jonny Howson Keep: Like others he needs to consistently maintain a high standard of performance, but he’s a cracking player and IMHO should be our Captain on the pitch.

MF Matt Jarvis Unload: Injury prone and unlikely to force his way ahead of the Murphy’s or Wildschut. Trouble is, who would want him?

MF Wes Hoolahan Keep: This is probably one of the most challenging aspects of any Norwich Head Coach/Manager: how to accommodate Wes Hoolahan. Under Lambert it was easy: play him every week at the top of a diamond. Now, it’s not so clear cut: Wes is unable to perform week in/week out, so the new guy in the hot seat will somehow have to know when to pick him and when to leave him out. So he needs some sort of clairvoyant ability to know whether Wes will have a great game or not. Good luck with that!

MF Yanic Wildschut Keep: A big price tag that he has not lived up to thus far. Unlikely to be wanted elsewhere too.

MF Tony Andreu Unload: He hasn’t made the breakthrough. There’s no doubt that he is a decent player, but I don’t think he will get ahead of Wes, Pritchard and Maddison.

MF Youssouf Mulumbu 50/50: I rate him, but he hasn’t made a midfield position his own. Can he flourish under a new regime?

MF Alex Pritchard Keep: The future of the team. He needs game time and trust placed in him that he is a key man for us.

MF Alex Tettey 50/50: He hasn’t just stagnated this season. He has regressed. I had him pegged as a battler, but other than bookings he seems to have no fight in him which is worrying. Similar to Mulumbu, could the change in coaching staff help him?

MF James Maddison Keep: The future of the team. He needs game time and trust placed in him that he is a key man for us.

MF Louis Thompson Keep: The future of the team. He needs game time and trust placed in him that he is a key man for us.

MF Ben Godfrey Keep: The future of the team. He needs game time and trust placed in him that he is a key man for us.

MF Ray Grant N/A: I honestly have no opinion of this guy.

FW Steven Naismith Unload: Alas, this is wishful thinking on my part. Naismith will be going nowhere. He cost a lot to buy. He costs a lot every week. He offers very little in return. He’s the albatross around our necks that Lafferty once was.

FW Nelson Oliveira Keep: Good player. Far better than I imagined he would be when we signed him.

FW Cameron Jerome Keep: He can hold his head high. He’s a good player for us.

FW Kyle Lafferty Unload: FINALLY!! We can release this guy. See Naismith for the new albatross.

FW Jacob Murphy Keep: The future of the team. He needs game time and trust placed in him that he is a key man for us.

FW Josh Murphy Keep: The future of the team. He needs game time and trust placed in him that he is a key man for us.

FW Carlton Morris Keep: All depends what system we play, but I’d be happy with him either as a backup option or for him to go out on loan again.

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Just these to go please. Past-it or crocked or not good enough for this level.

Bassong

Jarvis

Mulumbu

Lafferty

Andreu

Bennett

Turner

McGovern

The rest are either first-team or squad material or our future.

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My OUTS:

McGovern

Bassong

Turner

Bennett

Mulumbu

Jarvis

Naismith

Lafferty

Whitaker

Ins:

Dijks (if we can)

New left back if don''t keep Toffolo (young with potential)

New CB x 2

New holding DM as back up to Tettey

New CF

Thankfully most of the outs (apart from Naismith and Jarvis) will be taken care of due to their contracts running out. The new manager and Webber should therefore be in a good position to trim the squad and most of what we will have left is pretty decent and (as we saw on Saturday) good enough to mount a challenge if coached adequately. For me Martin becomes cover for Pinto and Klose needs a new partner plus an understudy. If we need to sell to raise funds to rebuild then sell Klose.

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1 GK John Ruddy OUT - Been a long time since he was at his best. Good keeper but probably on decent wages and probably would benefit from a new challenge

2 DF Steven Whittaker OUT - Talented player on the ball, but his lack of pace has been a problem at full back for a long time. Free up his wages

3 DF Mitchell Dijks IN - Looks a good player and we''re short at left back. Doubt he''d want to stay though and would have to pay £4.5m for him I think

4 MF Graham Dorrans OUT - Good player, unsure of his wages though and may be more cost-effective options

5 DF Russell Martin (captain) OUT - I love Russ but still think he''s a better right-back. Im not sure now whether he has the pace to play there. He''s an OK centre-back, but been here a while now and maybe we and he need a change.

6 DF Sébastien Bassong OUT - Been a dead weight for a few seasons now. Simultaneously the best and the worst centreback Ive ever seen play for us. Unfortunately its been a long time since we''ve seen a commanding performance from him

7 FW Steven Naismith OUT - Id take the Naismith we saw in that Liverpool game all day long. If we can get him back Id gladly keep him. Unfortunately we''ve seen very little of that player. Hefty fee and likely hefty wages we cant afford now

8 MF Jonny Howson (vice-captain) IN - Would be prepared to let him go for top money, but otherwise makes everything tick and has the right attitude. Could be more effective playing further forward but not as good as other options there

9 FW Nélson Oliveira IN - Has shown his class on numerous occasions this season. Good player for this level

10 FW Cameron Jerome IN - Good player at this level, high work-rate and good attitude

11 MF Matt Jarvis OUT - Think he''s a very talented player and would happily keep him if he had a better injury record

13 GK Paul Jones IN - No need to move him on, useful squad player

14 MF Wes Hoolahan IN - Still our most influential player and despite his age still doing the business. Pritchard may well be the long term successor, or Maddison, but may lose either of them and bound to be a useful mentor. If his legs go still a great option from the bench

15 DF Timm Klose OUT - Just dont think he wants to be here. He''s a good player but playing within himself and I think thats just his heart not being in it. Let him go for a decent fee and free up his wages.

17 MF Yanic Wildschut IN - Jury''s still out, too soon to make a judgement

18 MF Youssouf Mulumbu OUT - Great in his first pre-season, largely anonyomous ever since. Wonder what might have been if not for his injury. Probably on hefty wages and we''ve not seen enough of the real player.

19 FW Kyle Lafferty OUT - I dont know why he''s still here

20 MF Tony Andreu OUT - Only really here due to Neil who isnt here any more. Consequently nor should he be

21 MF Alex Pritchard IN - We''ll struggle to keep him but with the right financial decisions we could put ourselves in a position to refuse bids for him. Hardest thing will be convincing him to stay.

22 FW Jacob Murphy IN - Breakthrough season for him, has a lot to learn but the talent is there

23 DF Harry Toffolo IN - Has a number of lower league appearances under his belt now. He''s out of contract I believe so he''s either good enough or he isnt. If he is, give him a chance as first choice. If he''s not release, as just dont see the point of another loan

24 DF Ryan Bennett OUT - Never rated him. There''s a reason he has never kept his place. Not developed since joining us

25 DF Ivo Pinto IN - No need to move him on. Coaching focus should be on his defensive play for next season

26 DF Michael Turner OUT - Contractual, can let hiim go now

27 MF Alexander Tettey OUT - Useful player but I dont think he can play every game due to injury. Not been his best this season and things probably need freshening up and his wages releasing

28 MF James Maddison IN - Think he needs to be given more game time. Played regularly at League One level so needs to be stepping up. A loan wouldnt be productive

30 FW Carlton Morris IN - Perhaps unlikely to ever be more than a squad player, but wont be on high wages and his physique/frame make him a useful option from the bench. May develop

31 FW Josh Murphy IN - Was ahead of Jacob but been a difficult season for him. Clearly has the ability but path to the first-team somewhat blocked. Would have preferred to see him given his chance than Wildschut''s signing

33 GK Michael McGovern OUT - Just dont think he is consistent enough to be our number 1 but too good to warm our bench. Move him on

34 MF Louis Thompson IN - Potential to freshen up the midfield and replace Tettey

35 MF Ben Godfrey IN - Might be one who could see some more first team action under a brave manager. Will sink or swim

-- GK Declan Rudd OUT - Dont think Dec will ever be good enough to be our number one. He''s not a kid anymore and for the good of his career would be better off becoming a League One Number 1

-- GK Remi Matthews IN - Give him time to develop

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1 GK John Ruddy IN - We need to find a long-term replacement as he isn''t really up to the top flight but he''s good enough for now and other areas are a much bigger priority

2 DF Steven Whittaker OUT - Just not good enough.

3 DF Mitchell Dijks IN - Vaguely positive signs that he might be interested in staying, and he''s not likely to get games at Ajax so another season on loan might be a realistic possibility.

4 MF Graham Dorrans IN - Decent player, we can''t replace the entire squad and Dorrans can do a job for us.

5 DF Russell Martin (captain) OUT - Really on the fence about this. As cover for RB/CB it makes sense to keep him, but we desperately need a new mentality throughout the squad and he''s been here too long.

6 DF Sébastien Bassong OUT - The writing has been on the wall for a long while.

7 FW Steven Naismith IN - Nobody is going to want him in the summer, and I think we should give him one last chance to rediscover the talent he has buried somewhere under a new coach. Give him 6 month to prove himself; if he fails then free transfer to anyone who wants him in January.

8 MF Jonny Howson (vice-captain) IN - He''s fantastic for us, but nobody is going to offer really top-drawer money (10m+) for him. He''s worth much more to us than the 4-5m we''d likely get by selling, so make him captain and build around his hard work.

9 FW Nélson Oliveira IN - Best striker we have, will be a top player next season with regular games and hopefully no injuries.

10 FW Cameron Jerome IN - Solid player, if a bit overrated by some. Can''t question his commitment or work rate.

11 MF Matt Jarvis OUT - Was underwhelming when we signed him; has nothing to offer us after his injury. needs to go elsewhere and rebuild his career.

13 GK Paul Jones OUT - Pointless signing in the first place, an ageing keeper with no experience at this level. brings nothing to the table.

14 MF Wes Hoolahan IN - Probably his final season realistically, certainly of regular playing time, but he offers so much when he does turn it on... May need to reinvent himself as an impact sub, but absolutely needs to stay.

15 DF Timm Klose IN - We know he has the ability to play great football. Give him a good manager and proper coaching and he can be a class act for us still.

17 MF Yanic Wildschut IN - Not seen enough to make a proper judgement, but he played well for Wigan, no reason he cant do that here given the chance.

18 MF Youssouf Mulumbu OUT - Never worked out for him here. time for him to go.

19 FW Kyle Lafferty OUT - Should have been released on a free a year ago

20 MF Tony Andreu OUT - The worst signing in recent history? Utterly out of his depth here, sooner he''s gone the better.

21 MF Alex Pritchard IN - Will likely have a long line of suitors but if we can hang onto him he''s the future of the club.

22 FW Jacob Murphy IN - Unless someone wants to offer stupid money - like 30-40m stupid - then he''s going nowhere. Absolutely key player going forward.

23 DF Harry Toffolo IN - Should be at the club now, instead of out on loan. get him in, give him a real chance.

24 DF Ryan Bennett IN - We need some backup defenders, and Bennett will cost us nothing to keep around and fill the gaps on occasion.

25 DF Ivo Pinto IN - Arguably our outstanding player since joining; needs to work on his defending but a key asset.

26 DF Michael Turner OUT - He checked out years ago, time for him to physically leave as well

27 MF Alexander Tettey IN - Still has something to offer but it''s make or break time - if he doesn''t put the shifts in and get back to his old self, he needs to be axed in the new year.

28 MF James Maddison IN - Time for him to play regular first team football for us. Could be our best player next season.

30 FW Carlton Morris IN - Needs to be given a chance to show what he can do.

31 FW Josh Murphy IN - Vast potential even though he''s stalled a bit this season. Another key player for the future..

33 GK Michael McGovern OUT - Let''s be honest, if he hadn''t played for Hamilton, we would never have signed him. He''s not better than Ruddy or Rudd, would be an excellent League 1 keeper but not the right fit for us.

34 MF Louis Thompson IN - Hopefully he can stay injury-free and really show what he can do in midfield.

35 MF Ben Godfrey IN - I''d actually like to see him go out on loan for the first half of the season; huge potential but needs some regular game time.

-- GK Declan Rudd OUT - If Ruddy stays then theres nothing more for him here. He''s too good to stay as a backup.

-- GK Remi Matthews IN - Let him be our no.2 this season, give him cup games and experience in and around the senior squad and see how he develops

-- Ray Grant IN - Shown promise for the youth teams and keeping him costs us nothing; equally wouldnt be too bothered if he leaves permanently or on loan.

-- Conor McGrandles OUT - hasn''t really worked out for him here and there are better prospects both ahead of him and coming up behind through the academy. Still young enough to start again elsewhere.

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Obviously it all depends on the Head Coach who will come in and what system we will use but based on a squad of 23 I would release Ruddy, Whitts, Bassong, Mulumbu and Lafferty, whilst taking the years option on Rudd, Toffolo and Bennett, primiraly as back up, I''d also be looking to sell Klose, Dorrans and Naismith for a decent amount whilst flogging McGovern and Jarvis by hook or by crook.

That would leave a squad of:

Rudd, Jones, Matthews; Pinto, Martin, Bennett, Godfrey, Toffolo; Tettey, Thompson, Howson, Jacob, Josh, Wildschut, Pritchard, Hoolahan, Maddison, Oliviera, Jerome, Morris.

I''d then look to bring in a new first choice gk, cb x2 and lb, with a back up/ young rb and cm.

I''d then look to loan out Matthews and Godfrey to a L1 side, aslong as they''re garenteed match time, to gain experience and would also loan out Morris is we ourselves could loan in a superior player.

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]This is out current squad lit, please add anyone I''ve missed. The squad needs freshening up. If you were in charge, who would you keep (if you could) and who would you ship out?

1 GK John Ruddy OUT

2 DF Steven Whittaker OUT

3 DF Mitchell Dijks IN

4 MF Graham Dorrans OUT

5 DF Russell Martin (captain) OUT

6 DF Sébastien Bassong OUT

7 FW Steven Naismith OUT

8 MF Jonny Howson (vice-captain) IN

9 FW Nélson Oliveira IN

10 FW Cameron Jerome IN

11 MF Matt Jarvis OUT

13 GK Paul Jones IN

14 MF Wes Hoolahan IN

15 DF Timm Klose OUT

17 MF Yanic Wildschut IN

18 MF Youssouf Mulumbu OUT

19 FW Kyle Lafferty OUT

20 MF Tony Andreu OUT

21 MF Alex Pritchard IN

22 FW Jacob Murphy IN

23 DF Harry Toffolo IN

24 DF Ryan Bennett OUT

25 DF Ivo Pinto IN

26 DF Michael Turner OUT

27 MF Alexander Tettey OUT

28 MF James Maddison IN

30 FW Carlton Morris IN

31 FW Josh Murphy IN

33 GK Michael McGovern OUT

34 MF Louis Thompson IN

35 MF Ben Godfrey IN

-- GK Declan Rudd OUT

-- GK Remi Matthews IN[/quote]

Misses the point entirely. Should be looking to ship out Delia and Wynnie and ship in Mr Chase. Then there are clappy happers to be shipped out too........

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Tl;Dr. Just say who''s to go.

I fail to see the point in getting rid of players like Jarvis when we''d have to pay up his contract to get him to leave. If we are to spend all that cash, better to at least have a chance of using him.

I also struggle to see how we can do better than Ruddy without spending a lot of money, when it''s the backs where we desperately need to invest.

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Agree about Ruddy. He''s easily the best keeper at the club, the cost of getting a better one in would be money best spent on the defence

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I agree on Ruddy, the defense must be the top priority! Would like to see McGovern shipped out though...

Our youngsters, like Toffolo, Maddison, Thompson, Godfrey, ... deserve a chance at NCFC now! They are the future of our club.

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Ruddy will get his confidence back with a decent defence in front of him. And tbf, he''s still young in goal keeping terms.

McGovern was a classic Alex Neil transfer. He needs to go.

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I think the must keeps and must leaves are fairly easy for me and I accept I am more aggressive in my desire for change than most fans will want

Sadly I have a much bigger "meh" list - decent footballers who I would happily sell for the right price & those I could tolerate staying if unable to move them on.

Then there are linked players; eg I would be ok selling one of Howson or Dorrans but not so comfortable selling both. Ditto centre backs.

FWIW my break down is

Keep

Pinto, Godfrey, Jacob, Josh, Pritchard, Maddison, Wes, Jerome, Thompson, Oliveira

Sell for the right deal only

Klose, Howson, Dorrans

Prefer to Offload, allow to leave, am OK if we keep

Ruddy, Martin, Rudd, Naismith, Wildschutt, Morris

Actively remove

McGovern, Jones, Bassong, Bennett, Turner, Whittaker, Lafferty, Mulumbu, Andreu

I would love Dijks to stay and hope we make a concerted effort to attract him, even if just on loan next season, but suspect he will attract a prem club (brighton or play off winner)

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Prefer to Offload, allow to leave, am OK if we keep

Ruddy, Martin, Rudd, Naismith, Wildschutt, Morris + Jarvis

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Get Rid: McGovern, Whittaker, Bassong, Bennett, Turner, Klose, Tettey, Mulumbu, Jarvis, Naismith, Lafferty.

Would also include Martin but it will be difficult to shift this many defensive players in one window and we''d demand a much bigger fee for Klose that could be reinvested more wisely.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]My OUTS:

McGovern

Bassong

Turner

Bennett

Mulumbu

Jarvis

Naismith

Lafferty

Whitaker

Ins:

Dijks (if we can)

New left back if don''t keep Toffolo (young with potential)

New CB x 2

New holding DM as back up to Tettey

New CF

Thankfully most of the outs (apart from Naismith and Jarvis) will be taken care of due to their contracts running out. The new manager and Webber should therefore be in a good position to trim the squad and most of what we will have left is pretty decent and (as we saw on Saturday) good enough to mount a challenge if coached adequately. For me Martin becomes cover for Pinto and Klose needs a new partner plus an understudy. If we need to sell to raise funds to rebuild then sell Klose.[/quote]
I''m struggling to square this with your view and of many others that another manager would have succeeded with this squad we have now as it''s one of the strongest in the Championship. We''re going to have that new manager so surely if that''s the case then there''s a big risk in replacing so many players as we all know that many transfers don''t work out as planned at any club.[;)]

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Sorry the correct quote was

SW gets to my question of how many of current squad will be here in August. ''12-15 of those in programme from tonight''. #ncfc

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I think that is great to hear and looking forward to the action. WE have needed many of this squad out. They have been stale for a season or two. Many seen multiple relegation and on top wages.

All been said before so crack on SW

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That comment makes me wish I''d brought a program!

I assume the loan players are not on it: Matthews, Toffolo, Morris should be kept, but likely don''t count in the figure

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I can''t see an overhaul like this, as the club couldn''t afford it, and we really don''t need it. This squad needs tweaking and their confidence rebuilt. A few quality signings in the squad should have us there or thereabouts next season

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I think your squad with 16 outs would cause to much change, we need some core changes not every player my list is similar but has only 11 OUT (still a lot) and if we sign 8 good players to replace them we will or should be in a good place.. OTBC

GK John Ruddy In

2 DF Steven Whittaker OUT

3 DF Mitchell Dijks IN

4 MF Graham Dorrans IN

5 DF Russell Martin (captain) IN

6 DF Sébastien Bassong OUT

7 FW Steven Naismith IN

8 MF Jonny Howson (vice-captain) IN

9 FW Nélson Oliveira IN

10 FW Cameron Jerome IN

11 MF Matt Jarvis OUT

13 GK Paul Jones IN

14 MF Wes Hoolahan IN

15 DF Timm Klose IN

17 MF Yanic Wildschut OUT

18 MF Youssouf Mulumbu OUT

19 FW Kyle Lafferty OUT

20 MF Tony Andreu OUT

21 MF Alex Pritchard IN

22 FW Jacob Murphy IN

23 DF Harry Toffolo IN

24 DF Ryan Bennett OUT

25 DF Ivo Pinto IN

26 DF Michael Turner OUT

27 MF Alexander Tettey IN

28 MF James Maddison IN

30 FW Carlton Morris IN

31 FW Josh Murphy IN

33 GK Michael McGovern OUT

34 MF Louis Thompson IN

35 MF Ben Godfrey IN

-- GK Declan Rudd OUT

-- GK Remi Matthews IN

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