Mason 47 1,373 Posted April 15, 2017 I feel Russell Martin is a beneficiary of what I like to call the ''Gary O''Neil Syndrome''.GoN, during his latter stages with us, was considered a key element of the first-team set-up at the age of 32. Whilst I don''t contest that he was the best candidate for a calm foot on the ball and dictating passing, I felt it was more the case that he was the best of the worst; he should not have been a starting lynchpin of our side in the Premier League and was indicative of the lack of quality we had.I feel Martin is the same. Can certainly do a job, and is certainly not the worst player we have in our ranks. But with the heights at which we all feel we should be aiming, he should not be starting for us.Also not helped I think by the fact that really no players deserve to cup their ear in expectant high-horsery this year. Rod for own back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoola Han Solo 448 Posted April 15, 2017 Russell Martin has been the least worse of a bad bunch. He''s made cock ups galore, been part of an inept defence and should be upgraded. However, where are the countless threads bashing Bennett and Klose? Martin is scapegoat number one that frothing at the mouth posters can lay into. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mason 47 1,373 Posted April 15, 2017 I think calling out Bennett for being poor is now like accusing space of being cold. There''s no fun in it because it''s not really up for debate. He''ll probably leave this summer, as will Klose, whilst I would be surprised if Martin is shown the door so abruptly.Most can admit Martin does have his good points and history with us, with redeemable off-the-field qualities which naturally invites a challenge on his pitch-wise ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shefcanary 2,388 Posted April 15, 2017 Look, Martin is the captain. Yet our team always looks spineless, when we are behind we never come back, there is never any geeing up of players that are off the boil. Holt was really good at that, as was Forbes, Fleming, Watson and a few others. Martin is good in front of the news crews but is crap on the pitch. I cannot believe there is not another player who could be captain. That is my biggest gripe with him, that and the fact he can''t head a ball. He can stay as an ambassador but not as a player. All the defenders who have played in those positions in the first team don''t deserve that title. But Martin is the captain and shows the leadership of a lemming and frankly if he can''t take the criticism of the OP and whines about it off camera, that sums up our predicament. Clean sweep guys, let''s start at Preston. Godfrey and Efete to start. Show some balls Irvine cos our so called captain never does (except when he scores or is in front of a TV camera. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuff Said 5,089 Posted April 15, 2017 I think people overestimate the value of the captain while on the pitch. He can''t override what the manager/coach has been drilling into the players all week, nor is his role to alter things tactically while the game is in progress. The only people who could give a genuine assessment on how Martin is doing as captain are the first team squad. Confirmation bias will mean that while we''re winning, the captain is part of that, when we''re not, he is not up to the job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daisy 137 Posted April 15, 2017 Can`t believe there are still people on here that think Russell Martin is our best centre half !! I`m a passionate guy, I give my all on a matchday, I love this club but it doesn`t give me the right to play for them every week. Sometimes when you have a good player playing next to a poor player it can appear that they too are tosh.. Klose and Bennett fall into that category. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,314 Posted April 15, 2017 I don''t care about his captaincy to be honest. He seems a decent bloke who has some leadership qualities although not quite in the league of Holty.My problem with Martin is that at CB his positioning is awful, he gets caught underneath crosses and beaten in the air a lot and I think every other CB we have also plays worse alongside him than they do certain offers because he''s natural instincts and movements are not those of a centre back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,618 Posted April 15, 2017 If you think Bennett is a good player playing next to a poor one then I think I may have lost faith in the human race completely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,531 Posted April 15, 2017 I used to defend Martin as a CB, but it has become difficult to defend any of our players, particularly ones that have been with the club over the last four years. As a defence that resembles a seive at the slightest pressure, they''re all at fault. They were at fault under Hughton after a good start (around twenty games) they were at fault under Adams after a good start (again after around twenty games) and they were at fault under AN after the run to promotion. So I can''t defend Martin any more as a CB, or a right back, come to that. Not only is the defence carp, as a captain he has failed to organise his defence and motivate the team when things are against us. And the rest of the defence isn''t any better. Sorry, but that is how it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldRobert 38 Posted April 16, 2017 [quote user="lake district canary"]I used to defend Martin as a CB, but it has become difficult to defend any of our players, particularly ones that have been with the club over the last four years. As a defence that resembles a seive at the slightest pressure, they''re all at fault. They were at fault under Hughton after a good start (around twenty games) they were at fault under Adams after a good start (again after around twenty games) and they were at fault under AN after the run to promotion. So I can''t defend Martin any more as a CB, or a right back, come to that. Not only is the defence carp, as a captain he has failed to organise his defence and motivate the team when things are against us. And the rest of the defence isn''t any better. Sorry, but that is how it is. [/quote]Don''t often agree with you LDC, but I agree with every word of that post. Well said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,722 Posted April 16, 2017 Don''t be sorry Lakey as virtually everybody except those employed at Colney can see it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,580 Posted April 16, 2017 Jim is right his positioning is his main weakness and as he has gotten older he less able to make up for it with a bit of pace. It''s a problem that is evident across our backline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rogue Baboon 0 Posted April 16, 2017 @ daisy...So who is our best centre half?As other people have said, I would go for Martin but only because everybody else has been worse - certainly not based on Martins ability.The fact Martin, Bassong & Bennett are all still here shows just how bad our recruitment has been over the last few years Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted April 16, 2017 TIL 1010 wrote the following post at 16/04/2017 9:55 AM:Don''t be sorry Lakey as virtually everybody except those employed at Colney can see it.And I''m sure Mr Webber can too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Angry 1,545 Posted April 16, 2017 Take a look at Fulham''s last goal-I thought on the day that it was awful defending but have only just watched it again and it looks even worse. 2 Fulham attackers, surrounded by 7 Norwich players. The game might have gone by then but there was zero commitment, zero organisation, zero defending.There were at least 2 other golden opportunities squandered by Fulham in the second half too.None of this defence should be playing for us next year. Martin and Bennett aren''t good enough, Klose doesn''t look like he''s trying, Pinto is good going forward but not defensively, ditto for Dijks, and neither Ruddy or McGovern are consistently good enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rogue Baboon 0 Posted April 16, 2017 Dijks not good defensively?Cant agree with that at all - hes built like a CB but with the attributes of a LB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Angry 1,545 Posted April 16, 2017 To be honest that''s the first time I''ve seen him in the flesh, I thought he had the same problems as Pinto, concentrating on the attacking and not getting back quickly enough when we lost the ball. Maybe he''s been better in other games but they were all shocking this time.I doubt that we could persuade him to stay beyond the end of the season anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted April 16, 2017 Dijks put in a magnificent tackle on FridayI have to say that he has been a highlight of a miserable season for me, to see opposition players bouncing off him, he has a huge physical presence and would definitely want to see him and Ivo here next season if poss.Was awaiting a clash between Chrissy and Dijks and certainly wasn''t dissapointed when it happened 😀 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Commando Canary 0 Posted April 16, 2017 [quote user="lake district canary"]I used to defend Martin as a CB, but it has become difficult to defend any of our players, particularly ones that have been with the club over the last four years. As a defence that resembles a seive at the slightest pressure, they''re all at fault. They were at fault under Hughton after a good start (around twenty games) they were at fault under Adams after a good start (again after around twenty games) and they were at fault under AN after the run to promotion. So I can''t defend Martin any more as a CB, or a right back, come to that. Not only is the defence carp, as a captain he has failed to organise his defence and motivate the team when things are against us. And the rest of the defence isn''t any better. Sorry, but that is how it is. [/quote]just what i was trying to say, but i didn''t say it quite as eloquently as you LDC! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted April 16, 2017 People are making good points but ultimately we have to play two of our centre backs. Martin is a fair shout to play from this pool. Martin and Bassong are probably still the best pairing. And I''d rather Martin at CB than FB. I believe he''s third best at right back behind both pinto and whitts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,580 Posted April 16, 2017 It is odd that the only pairing I don''t remember ever seeing is Klose and Bassong. Why is this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoola Han Solo 448 Posted April 16, 2017 They''re both left sided defenders Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djc 0 Posted April 16, 2017 Bassong was a beast the season we signed him. He rightly won POTS, but since then and waving a gun around in his garden he''s turned to sh*t. He looked half decent on his return from Watford loan but isn''t up for the fight, just a quick payday for little effort. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,580 Posted April 16, 2017 @hoolaAre both incapable of playing on the right side of a pair? Seems worth a go surely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,618 Posted April 16, 2017 I think Martin and Bassong is probably our best pair but not by much and excluding Bennett who is particularly poor the rest are pretty much of a muchness anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,580 Posted April 16, 2017 I think it''s Martin and Klose but only when Klose is with it. Bassong is getting the ''Lafferty bump'' with some at the moment. Whenever he gets an extended run in the team he shows himself to be an absolute liability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,618 Posted April 16, 2017 Bassong is prone to an individual mistake no doubt but none more so than Bennett or Klose really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,580 Posted April 16, 2017 Statistically he''s always been more prone than others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clint 221 Posted April 16, 2017 Would Bassong have been any worse than Klose or Bennett this season? Given how poor they''ve been, it seems a little odd that he''s been given so few opportunities, only played 8 games or something like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites