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kennyfoggo

Open Letter

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I have added my name to your letter. Very well written and all points carry good weight.

I would ask maybe Dicky to attempt to read it to see what opposition he could come up with from behind his green and yellow tinted specs

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But if there is no where for people to register the fact that they don''t agree, you''ll end up with 100% support for your letter. Oh, I see.

"We the undersigned are concerned at the plight of our club". Yeah well, that applies to about half the clubs in the entire league doesn''t it?

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If you read the first post ... it tells you don''t sign if you don''t agree..think that is fair enough there has been polls and post all over the place to register your views. trying to bring one view all together. While the views of those who don''t agree with keeping the manager are being whitewashed.. or discounted in PR statements in the press etc.. there are those of us who believe different 

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hi kennyfoggo

have read your letter and signed, thanks for starting this up, whether everyone on here agrees with your views or not, it is still valid and i am sure it will be taken seriously by the board, personally i think its about time someone shook them all off their giant pink fluffy cloud

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If you get 200 messages of support for your letter (which I''ll be surprised if you do) that equals roughly 0.8% of the Norwich fans at Carrow Road on Saturday. So you should also point out that over 99% haven''t supported your request, in the interests of balance. I only hope the board and management take that extremely localised swelling of the ground into account.

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By the way, it''s not "writing as a open letter" it''s "writing as AN open letter" (not sure what is meant by this - unless you are composed of paper and ink) and "get us on AN even keel". You should consider finishing the sentence "same old worn out" and not starting a sentence "when in truth" or starting another sentence "and..." (oh dear). Glad to see you also managed inappropriate use of capitals: "While we agree, But didn''t Sunderland", and followed that up with using "But" to start another poorly composed sentence.

You might like to try impressing the chairman with your grammar before trying to impress on him your views.

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Not all of us have your edukasion Eddie...and if I had I sure I wouldn''t bother trying to put someone right...  .....I had the dis advantage of only attending an oridnary school but my parents told ist was special as it was approved..  

perhaps there are people who visit these forum who have learning difficulties.. and here we have a fine example of how to encourage them to use these places...

Wiz summed this place up perfectly......

I think that is the end of my visits...  

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[quote]If you get 200 messages of support for your letter (which I''ll be surprised if you do) that equals roughly 0.8% of the Norwich fans at Carrow Road on Saturday. So you should also point out that over 9...[/quote]

This is a very silly reply as most people at the ground do not read this website or may not even have internet access.

Maybe all the people in Japan don`t agree with the letter because they did not sign either.

The question you should ask is what percentage of fans who "read" the letter agree or disagree with its content.

Please feel free to say you don`t agree with the letter and you are happy with how things are going.

Maybe only 0.8% of people were booing on Saturday.

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It is interesting to compare the views of two of the KTF Worthy supporters.

One of them, CrazyEddie (above), puts the view that he would be surprised if 200 people sign this letter.

The other, Branston (off the official site), remarks that maybe 200 people bother to post on all the Boards and Forums.

To me, a simple chap, this would make something in the region of 100% of all the NCFC posters in the entire world may possibly sign this letter.  I find this difficult to believe but then the KTF Worthy supporters'' club would have us believe that they are the educated ones, so just maybe they''re right.

If so that looks pretty condemning on the management at Carrow Road.

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Whether you agree or not with the tone of the letter, it will not be taken seriously by the board if there is not an opportunity to disagree with it. I for one don''t think it''s time for Worthy to go, I realise that is a minority view amongst people posting on this board this week, but not necessarily of Norwich supporters and not necessarily next week either. Your letter would have more credibility if you have the correct quote from NW about the fans, Worthy said "I''m not bothered by what the fans say, I''m in charge" that is not the same as "I do not care what the fans think".

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I will be interested to see how many sign the letter. I am afraid I did not because although I am far from happy with how things have gone this season, I am not sure that it is all Worthington''s fault or that changing the manager will give us the change of fortunes we want. I also feel that the letter should only really speak for those who sign and not imply more than that, which I think it currently does, e.g. referring to 20000 at Carrow Road.

I was very unhappy with Worthington''s comments after the game, as reported to me, but I am willing to accept his apology and move on. I find I am more in agreement with Roger Munby than the writer of the letter. By being patient, we have seen the team win both at home and away and I am willing to give them more time.

I am also willing to trust the board''s judgment as presumably they are more aware than I am of dressing room feeling etc. I also believe that Delia, Roger and others care as deeply about the club as I do.

 

 

 

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To be fair to Crazy Eddie, the grammar and syntax of the letter is poor.

This is not an issue about education/class/dyslexia.  Every computer has a spelling and grammar check installed, so there is no need for these sorts of mistakes.

It is important, if you are to present this letter to Mr. Munby, that everything has been done to ensure he gives it his full attention.  A letter full of mistakes will be less effective than a clear, concise and accurate document.

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[quote]By the way, it''s not "writing as a open letter" it''s "writing as AN open letter" (not sure what is meant by this - unless you are composed of paper and ink) and "get us on AN even keel". You should co...[/quote]

With all the trouble at NCFC, Crazy Eddie (lives up to his name I see!) has a go at spelling, hilarious.

Kenny Foggo is too important to these boards to be ''pushed off'' them by posters of Eddie''s mentality.

You must stay with us Kenny, don''t let the Eddies of this KTF world win mate. You''re worth 10 of him my friend, any day!.

                                         Carrowroad.net

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[quote]To be fair to Crazy Eddie, the grammar and syntax of the letter is poor. This is not an issue about education/class/dyslexia. Every computer has a spelling and grammar check installed, so there is n...[/quote]

Who cares if the grammar in the letter is poor?  He is not applying to Cambridge University! 

As we are being pedantic and analysing the structure of posts (or letter) rather than it''s content, it is worth noting that it is perfectly acceptable to begin a sentence with a conjunction.  Just because your middle school teacher wouldn''t allow it, it does not make it wrong.

If everyone is so concerned about the use of grammar, why did you not send a personal message to him offering your words of wisdom?  Instead people chose to try and belittle Kenny for all to see.

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There''s been something on my mind for a while now with concern to this football club. It is the supporters who, primarily, post on the message boards.

For the large part, most message-board users are nice people; they - like most of us - live and breath NCFC. They, like most of us, are exceptionally concerned with the club''s form since relegation. They - like most of us - have views as to how this situation can be reversed.

To some, this involves changing the manager. This is a camp that is growing by the match, with mistake after mistake made by the tactically inept Nigel Worthington. This is a camp which - to be honest - I sit very firmly in.

To others the answer lies elsewhere; perhaps in the coaching staff at Carrow Road, singling out the inability of our coaches on the training field to inspire our team to glory.

To more it is the players who are to blame. If they cannot motivate themselves in a League where some of them are supposed to have more talent than entire teams, then it is surely their fault.

What is most concerning however is the increasing faction of people - particularly on here - who seem content simply to snipe at others views. Gone are the days of intellectual debate, in are the days of maliciously correcting spelling and grammer to inflict embarrasment at one''s grasp of the English language. In are the days where a personal problem will be thrown in someone''s face as a retort for someone''s views. In are the days of playground-like name calling to gain one-uppance in what would otherwise be an interesting and stimulating debate.

Perhaps we should remember; we are all Norwich City fans. Yes, our opinions differ but the club we love doesn''t. We all have a common goal - the advancement of Norwich City Football Club. Therefore if you don''t like an opinion, or how someone is stating it state so. Debate, not insult. Then maybe we might get somewhere.

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[quote]There''s been something on my mind for a while now with concern to this football club. It is the supporters who, primarily, post on the message boards. For the large part, most message-board users are...[/quote]

Spot on, argue against the post not the posters spelling!

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[quote]To be fair to Crazy Eddie, the grammar and syntax of the letter is poor. This is not an issue about education/class/dyslexia. Every computer has a spelling and grammar check installed, so there is n...[/quote]

Which was my point, although in fairness I put it rather sarcastically, so, as worthy would say, I appologise if I caused offense.

What I will say is that I am dismayed by the attitude amongst some of the supporters of late, with comments such as "I can live with defeat after defeat provided Worthy is shown the door, end of October would be nice" floating around.

I will stick firmly behind the team, regardless of who is in charge, through thick and thin, and if I wasn''t prepared to do that then I would show my dissatisfaction by not attending the games, not going to them and being negative.

I hope we turn this around with the current management and come the end of the season those who backed Worthy for the whole season can hold their heads high. I wonder how many that are calling for his head now will jump on the band-wagon.

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Crazy Eddie,

Rest assured that I have never been one for jumping on bandwagons as the risk is in just missing it.  A few people have consistently been unhappy with certain aspects of the current management:

Player favouritism, Vendettas, Poor substitutions, Emphasis on fitness rather than skill, Poor transfer record, Inability to change direction during game.

We have pointed this out on various web sites over the last four years but have accepted that we were lone voices.  Now there are more glaring examples plus the memory of past events which mean that this view is shared by a wider circle.

What has brought it to the fore and amplified the view is that some individuals attempt to drown the view with obscenities on some sites and on the moderated ones like here, try to claim intellectual superiority.

It is a shame that these individuals cannot use reasoned football argument backed up with facts, rather than schoolday bullyboy methods.

The letter is one view that has been aired to see if it has support, let us wait and see.

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Sorry, Kenny, but the grammar isn''t irrelevant(1) in a letter like this.

Obviously on this board you can express yourself how you like - people who mock your grammar are idiots. But(2) in a letter addressed to the Chairman of NCFC, on a serious subject like this, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to express yourself effectively, and that means with grammatical accuracy. I''m afraid to say that when Munby reads it, he''ll laugh at your writing and throw the letter straight in the bin, dismissing you as a fool. I''m sure you''re not a fool and I''m not criticising your views - you have every right to express them. But if you really want to change someone''s mind, you''ve got to create the best possible impression and your letter doesn''t do that.

Crazy Eddie''s right. Tactless, but right. Oh, and I like the way ''Keep the Faith'' has become a term of abuse. Isn''t that what fans are supposed to do?

1. Double negatives are fine. I put ''isn''t irrelevant'' rather than ''is relevant'' beacuse I wanted to stress I was disagreeing with an earlier poster who said grammar was irrelevant.

2. There''s nothing wrong with starting a sentence with a conjunction. In fact, it can be an effective, arresting beginning.

On the Ball, City

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I have signed up. The 10 games are up and we are not playing the football we need and the manager cant inspire the players or change a game with tactics.

A sad day for the club for me, (we will hopefully go and win 4-0 tonight now!)

OTBC

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[quote]Sorry, Kenny, but the grammar isn''t irrelevant(1) in a letter like this. Obviously on this board you can express yourself how you like - people who mock your grammar are idiots. But(2) in a letter a...[/quote]

I think grammar is irrelevant in a situation such as this. This is a letter conveying the thoughts and ideas of many a Canary fan, and as such it articulates to that purpose perfectly. It sums up with a great deal of clarity what many of us feel, think and have expressed countless times on this messageboard.

The fact that the English language hasn''t been used to perfection is hardly a primary concern. It hasn''t detracted from the purpose and effect the letter is supposed to have. In fact, I find little argument to say otherwise, despite your quite ridiculous suggestion that Roger Munby would disregard the letter because of a few errors. Bless, he himself isn''t exactly the words greatest literary expert, I doubt he''d even notice.

If, in fact, the grammar was so poor as so the letter became unreadable, and thus fails in it''s intention and purpose then fine; criticism would be warranted.

Roger Munby is a chairman of a football club and any chairman will tell you a part of his duties and responsibilities in this role are addressing the concerns of the fans. If he ignores such a letter willingly then he is in breach of his duties as chairman.  

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Andrew - what an excellent couple of posts.
 
Kenny - have you sent or are you intending to send the final version to Mr Munby care of Royal Mail?   Oh, and please don''t go...this board may occasionally frustrate and posters may occasionally make comments that are uncalled for, but one of the redeeming features is that 99.9% of the time the culprit does offer their apologies - we all appear to have the ability to realise the error of our ways and we''re all big enough to admit our mistakes...this forum needs intelligent debate from people such as yourself.

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Just why can''t be more critical of things that matter - such as Worthingtons poor substitutions, team selection instead of the grammar in this letter.

This letter is written in the right spirit in the aim of getting our club playing the football we love, not the sort we are playing at the moment and causing us to struggle.

OTBC!

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Seeing as how there are so many English teachers on here I wondered if they might possibly try this idea?

If they could see fit to allow their class the opportunity of studying the letter then maybe they could allow them to add their names in class time if they so wished.

Alternatively they might keep the English lessons to the classroom and proper football discussion to the forums.

I know that would be a novel idea and maybe undermine the intellectual superiority of some posters but surely it was what the good folk at Archant had in mind when they designed this forum.

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