Neil out

[morty 0]

🖒

[BroadstairsR 2,164]

"Villa are a perfect example of how just changing a manager doesn''t necessarily work."

And may be we are a perfect example of how not changing a manager necessarily doesn''t work.

(Speaking over a pint or two in The Cricketers, Bordesley Green, Birmingham.)

[Hairy Canary 702]

Villa are not a perfect example. Neil has been here for two years. Bruce inherited a basket case and has been there just a few months.

How many times does it need to be stated that deciding if a manager is up to the job or not is a long term judgement. Neil has been here long enough to see that we are heading in the wrong direction. Bruce hasn''t yet.

[BroadstairsR 2,164]

See you in the Lamb Inn.

11 O''Clock Sunday.

Beer on me (except Morty .. tonic water for him?)

[Barking Mad Barclay Boy 13]

norwich could lose all remaining fixtures and he will still be incharge we all know this, the faith shown from the board shows he is wanted here long term, so a loss here and there and a pinkun forum post isnt going to get him the boot.

[Thisisbabyish 0]

BMBB gets it 👍🏻

Brace yourselves boys it''s going to be a long night!

[Len 74]

Having Neil in charge on a long term basis provides the best chance in years of seeing Wynn-Jones and his dysfunctional family removed. No pain, no gain is how the situation ought to be viewed.

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

Hairy canary gets it.

Neil''s had enough chances. We''re not where we should be. The decision is more than likely too late for this season but we need to be proactive about next season.

[hogesar 9,666]

I agree Neil''s had enough chances. I just don''t believe that there is enough evidence to suggest that changing manager now would make a significant difference to this season.

I believe we stand a better chance of attracting a managers and that there may be more to pick from anyway, in the close season.

[Woodman 92]

I agree with whoever said this season is or was our best chance of getting promoted. Come the start of next season, whoever is our manager, we''ll have a much younger, less experienced squad of players, who will be less capable of getting promoted.

If we don''t get to the playoffs, or don''t go up if we do get there, I fully expect Dijks, Klose, Naismith and Pinto to leave. Plus of course, Turner, Lafferty, Bassong, Mulumbu and possibly Ruddy will not have their contracts renewed. That''s a huge amount of talent and experience to replace.

[Len 74]

If Neil finishes outside the playoffs but 12th or higher then expect him to be in charge next season. It goes without saying that this scenario includes Neil overseeing a major rebuild.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

So Bruce is being excused because he has taken over a "basket case", despite his years of experience at both Premiership and Championship level, but if somebody takes over the "basket case" which is Norwich City it is guaranteed that they will improve things?........

[Hairy Canary 702]

Not at all, can''t see how you managed to infer that. Not sure I''ve seen anyone say that changing the manager guarantees anything.

The point being made was that it takes a good while for a manager to stamp his way on a club and to turn things around. Neil has had two years, spent millions and we are no further forward. That is enough time to judge that things aren''t going to improve under him any time soon IMO.

Bruce has been at Villa for a few months which isn''t long enough to judge. To be honest I couldn''t care less if Villa improve or not it was stating that it wasn''t a just comparison.

[hogesar 9,666]

It does take a good while for a manager to stamp his way on a club and turn things around which is why the desperation for some to change a manager now in the blind hope it''ll guarantee us a play-off spot is a bit daft.

I agree he does need to go - but I still think the best chance of sourcing a replacement would be in the close season.

[Len 74]

[quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]So Bruce is being excused because he has taken over a "basket case", despite his years of experience at both Premiership and Championship level, but if somebody takes over the "basket case" which is Norwich City it is guaranteed that they will improve things?........[/quote]The obvious answer is that we need a better board. First priority would be to relegate Delia to the stands and let Wynn-Jones get on with things.It''s should be staring everyone in the face that it''s not usually a good idea to bring the wife into a senior management position. The stories that she enters the dressing room on match days suggest that the woman has ideas well above her station.Small change, potentially big effect.

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="Len"]Having Neil in charge on a long term basis provides

the best chance in years of seeing Wynn-Jones and his dysfunctional

family removed. No pain, no gain is how the situation ought to be

viewed.[/quote]

[quote user="Len"][quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]So Bruce is being excused because he has taken over a "basket case", despite his years of experience at both Premiership and Championship level, but if somebody takes over the "basket case" which is Norwich City it is guaranteed that they will improve things?........[/quote]The obvious answer is that we need a better board. First priority would be to relegate Delia to the stands and let Wynn-Jones get on with things.It''s should be staring everyone in the face that it''s not usually a good idea to bring the wife into a senior management position. The stories that she enters the dressing room on match days suggest that the woman has ideas well above her station.Small change, potentially big effect.[/quote]

Make your mind up.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

I also think that Alex Neil should be sacked if we do not make the play offs. I also think that a new manager should be given time to improve things. The trouble is there do appear to be posters that think that a new manager will somehow improve our chances of making the play offs. Steve Bruce and Sam Allardyce are two examples of vastly experienced managers struggling to make an immediate impact (which I believe is the reason they were hired by their respective clubs). Neil Warnock is a good example of a vastly experienced manager taking time to exert his influence. I do not think a new manager now will make any difference as to whether or not we make the play offs, if we fail to make the play offs then Alex Neil should be sacked and a new manager brought in with a view to having the close season to get to grips with the squad, who stays, who goes, new recruits etc. If it comes to pass that we are in the market for a new manager we need to get that appointment spot on as next season is pivotal in terms of the parachute payments running out and the financial gap between the Prem and the Championship getting even wider........

[Hairy Canary 702]

Agree with all that Faded. :-)

Whether we make the change when the play offs are no longer available or delay until the seasons end would depend on who the board are looking at as a successor (I assume they have some sort of contingency/shortlist in mind like we had when we appointed AN in the first place). If that person is available then it would make sense to me to get him on board before he goes elsewhere and also to give him a chance to assess what is very likely to be a major re-build next close season.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Sometimes a new manager coming in can turn around a club''s fortunes in the short term, sometimes not - often I think it depends on what''s going on in the background which we as fans aren''t really aware of.

 

I definitely agree that our next managerial appointment is vital so we certainly shouldn''t rush it.  No repeat of sacking Hughton then bringing in and permanently appointing Adams please. 

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]I also think that Alex Neil should be sacked if we do not make the play offs. I also think that a new manager should be given time to improve things. The trouble is there do appear to be posters that think that a new manager will somehow improve our chances of making the play offs. Steve Bruce and Sam Allardyce are two examples of vastly experienced managers struggling to make an immediate impact (which I believe is the reason they were hired by their respective clubs). Neil Warnock is a good example of a vastly experienced manager taking time to exert his influence. I do not think a new manager now will make any difference as to whether or not we make the play offs, if we fail to make the play offs then Alex Neil should be sacked and a new manager brought in with a view to having the close season to get to grips with the squad, who stays, who goes, new recruits etc. If it comes to pass that we are in the market for a new manager we need to get that appointment spot on as next season is pivotal in terms of the parachute payments running out and the financial gap between the Prem and the Championship getting even wider........[/quote]I know football and logic don''t always go together but that is an unlikely scenario. The board have stuck with Neil on the basis that we might stilll get in the play-offs. It would only make sense to sack him once it became quite clear that wasn''t going to happen and then by definition there would be no point in  some  short-term  deadcat-bounce appointment.If Neil is sacked before the end of the season it will be because the board want to get in a manager they fancy for the long-term before they get snaffled by another club.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

I am still absolutely staggered that some people cannot see the benefit of changing the manager before the end of the season!

[Highland Canary 76]

But I thought the favoured option was ten years. Neil will be here in 18 months from now even if we''re in tier three by then.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

All we need is Alex Neil to eat a pie on Sunday and his inevitable resignation will surely come.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

So what do you think the benefits would be norfolkbroadslim?......

[westcoastcanary 173]

Have any of those calling so vociferously for a new manager actually thought about the attributes any replacement for AN would need to possess? I suggest they try producing a sample job specification taking serious account of the current realities of being manager of NCFC, by which I mean e.g. the club''s financial position, ownership model, required team rebuild, limitations of football infrastructure, utilising the investment in young players, and so on. Once having produced the job specification, they should then suggest who they think would be realistic candidates, not just in terms of suitability but likely also to want to take on the job.  

[Essjayess 307]

westcoast, that is such a good post, and brings some much needed realistic thought into this thread.Neil out?...if now, and a new manager comes in, you really think he  could change the likes of Whittaker, Martin, Lafferty etc etc?..my point being, weve suffered an inherent weakness in defence for a few seasons now, not a manager on this planet can change that situation until summer at earliest. So,  new manager in the summer?...then what? exactly what are you expecting from a club like City?...promotion and then a long, lengthy spell in the Prem?...just is not going to happen, at best we continue a yo yo existence, no better than weve had these past seasons.Ever since Saunders took us to the top flight in the early 70s, apart from one magical spell in the 80s, which was a very different era to what we have nowadays, we have never established as a top flight club. Reality is of course, we are not alone. Take out the top 6 in the Prem, who else even in the Prem have a long established stay there?...Stoke i guess are making a good fist of it, but most the rest can hope for 2, 3, 4 seasons at best. And look at the Champs, filled with clubs like us, or ones with who for to long have yearned to be back there...Leeds, Forest, Derby...etc.AN for sure has had a rough 18 months, but i reckon Delia will stand by him if we finish anywhere in the top half,  i fully expect to see him here next season, unless he himself resigns. Look with interest at what the summer window brings to the club, aand pondering on westcoasts post, AN seems the most suitable guy  as manager now and near future.

[westcoastcanary 173]

@Essjayess

[Y]  Fact is, AN ticks the majority of boxes implicit in any such job specification, which I guess is why he enjoys continued support from the board. The main problem IMO is his refusal (in ron obvious''s words) to "pay more than lip service to defence". As I''ve said on other threads, believing that handing the opposition scoring opportunities is the acceptable cost of "expansive" football is hardly a recipe for taking the club forward. 

[BroadstairsR 2,164]

Neil out.

A new man might do a better job.

That''s a risk worth taking surely.

Days are quite grim at the moment.

[westcoastcanary 173]

Broadstairs you disappoint me. Ignoring a question does not constitute answering it!

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="westcoastcanary"]Have any of those calling so vociferously for a new manager actually thought about the attributes any replacement for AN would need to possess? I suggest they try producing a sample job specification taking serious account of the current realities of being manager of NCFC, by which I mean e.g. the club''s financial position, ownership model, required team rebuild, limitations of football infrastructure, utilising the investment in young players, and so on. Once having produced the job specification, they should then suggest who they think would be realistic candidates, not just in terms of suitability but likely also to want to take on the job.  [/quote]

I should think many have have. This is my list:1) Young - but not unexperienced as a coach/manager - and ambitious, but with ambition tempered by  a cool head. Gung-ho is not good.2) A track record of decent performance  in at least two jobs. One period of success can be illusory.3)

Knowledge of the Championship and its varied footballing challenges,

with the need for tactical flexibility. Not every team plays the same

way.4) Ability to work within financial constraints (this will

apply to us next season in the Championship and perhaps after that, and -

in comparitive terms - if we get back to the Premier League).Gary

Rowett is 42, so still young, but has been in coaching/management since

2009. He laid the foundations for Burton Albion''s rise, and revived a

basket-case Birmingham City. So success with two clubs. He plainly

understands the Championship, with the occasional need to win ugly, and

at both his previous clubs worked within severe budget constraints.This was the view - echoed by many others - of the Birmingham Mail when he was sacked:An intelligent manager, a manager who in his time at Blues has conducted himself with dignity and professionalism. A

manager who has taken Blues on a shoestring to contenders for the

play-offs. This is a manager who understands the Championship, the

constraints, the realities, and the potential of the league. Little by

little, Blues have defied the odds under Rowett to punch firmly above

their weight. Anyone who listened to Rowett talk about Blues and

football will know this is EXACTLY the man you want in charge of your

football club.So Rowett seems to tick all my boxes, including ones Neil does not appear to. There may be others as well- or better-qualified.