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djc

stick it up your a*** Delia!

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Hmm.

The only criticism the board should be getting right now is for sticking with AN. That would be fair criticism. This thread is just full of self entitled rubbish

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Sorry hog but what about the Moxey debacle, the press release early season about the fans not going to like it but we wont listen to anyone on investing or selling it''ll go to Tom!

With Bowkett king two weeks after reelection and McNally it''s been a terrible two seasons of nothing but negative impact to the club.

Surely fans are entitled to ask questions and some level of criticism for this past 12 months?

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[quote user="Jamie Witherspoon"]But they don''t.[/quote]where would you like to see the Football club in 5 years?and from there, where do you think it will be?

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[quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]Saved our club....really.....that old bucket of horse shit being wheeled out again?.......[/quote]The club was much nearer bankruptcy in 2009 than it was in 1995. A bit of debt renegotiation and injecting a relatively small amount of capital was all that was needed in the mid 90s. I think some fans like to tell whatever story fits their own beliefs when it comes to how bad the situation was after Chase left.

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The club was much nearer bankruptcy in 2009 than it was in 1995. A bit of debt renegotiation and injecting a relatively small amount of capital was all that was needed in the mid 90s. I think some fans like to tell whatever story fits their own beliefs when it comes to how bad the situation was after Chase left.

Some of our fans are totally blinded by the Z list celebrity status she holds. Had it been a local businessman with a bit of a bad rep that had run the club the way these have, then they would likely have been forced out when we went down to league 1 and nearly sold the stadium to survive

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I prefer to tell the story as it was when Chase left. Closer in 2009? I very much doubt it. But we would have been if the owners had fecked off like Chase did. As it was they stuck around and turned things around. Even though those following years apparently weren''t part of their tenure.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]I prefer to tell the story as it was when Chase left. Closer in 2009? I very much doubt it. But we would have been if the owners had fecked off like Chase did. As it was they stuck around and turned things around. Even though those following years apparently weren''t part of their tenure.[/quote]To be fair, there haven''t been protests or the local media against our current owners to the degree that Chase had to endure. He could never have stayed on given the poisonous atmosphere.As JF says it''s our owners'' celebrity status, helped by an acquiescent local media doom-mongering in the aftermath of Chase''s exit and defending them in 2009, which has seen their tenure continue. The myth of Delia being the club''s saviour became engrained enough to be taken as truth.The Premier League money of recent years can disappear quickly, like a gambler losing his shirt soon after a big win.

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Geoffrey Watling put up the garuantees to the bank that saved the club. That is a matter of record. Geoffrey Watling also chose to sell the shares to Smith & Jones. That''s also a matter of record. So did he save the club and then ruin it all in two years?

Surely partly investing that PL money in youth is an attempt not to see it wasted. If you want to see gamblers waste money just look at QPR.

This celebrity stuff only seems to worry Delias critics. Those who make up all they can to discredit her. I just see Smith & Jones as fans. Fans who have stood up when they were needed and have made a huge difference to our club and the community surrounding it.

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It''s not all terrible and some good things have been done. But the main point was that the situation in 1995 when Chase left wasn''t as parlous as some have claimed.An administrator would have mainly rearranged the debts eg transferred the bank overdrafts to longer term debt. This is similar to taking out a mortgage to pay off a large debt (instead of buying a house) in order to make the repayments more manageable. The club''s assets eg stadium, training ground or land would have made it fairly easy to find a lender.The club was viable but had hit a cash flow issue. It never was a case of armageddon being around the corner!

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Well I''d prefer to go along with what happened at the time rather than you revisionist view from the present Len.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Well I''d prefer to go along with what happened at the time rather than you revisionist view from the present Len.[/quote]What have I revised? As far as I recall the club hit a cash flow issue and Barclays called in their debt (in the form of bank overdrafts). Happens to lots of businesses but is often fixable.

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Not to mention the LS land the club purchased, which went on to be a very valuable asset.

It''s funny how we are told things by people involved back in 2009 from different perspectives and then hold them. The board were pressured to act and Doomy was one of the sacrifices at the time, Bowkett was hired due to implications of the situation and McNally was the one great thing to happen thanks to Roy. You can credit Delia for taking his advice, but without the actions of and pressure being applied by the likes of Barclays Delia would never have got rid of Doomy, he was well liked by our owners.

Yes I''m pretty sure Purple & Nutty having some sort of connection with the club might have been told the story from the owners view point which is spun in their truth, but what is never in question is without the intervention in 2009 we were spiralling into a dark point, over 20 million in debt and relegation to the third division, something had to give.

Bowkett was the best appointment this board ever made, even if they didn''t like doing it at the time and no coincidence that as soon as the club got back to financial stability, he suddenly went.

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Just a fixable cash flow problem. If only we''d had businessmen at the club at the time. Where were you when your club needed you Len?

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[quote user="Indy"]Not to mention the LS land the club purchased, which went on to be a very valuable asset.

It''s funny how we are told things by people involved back in 2009 from different perspectives and then hold them. The board were pressured to act and Doomy was one of the sacrifices at the time, Bowkett was hired due to implications of the situation and McNally was the one great thing to happen thanks to Roy. You can credit Delia for taking his advice, but without the actions of and pressure being applied by the likes of Barclays Delia would never have got rid of Doomy, he was well liked by our owners.

Yes I''m pretty sure Purple & Nutty having some sort of connection with the club might have been told the story from the owners view point which is spun in their truth, but what is never in question is without the intervention in 2009 we were spiralling into a dark point, over 20 million in debt and relegation to the third division, something had to give.

Bowkett was the best appointment this board ever made, even if they didn''t like doing it at the time and no coincidence that as soon as the club got back to financial stability, he suddenly went.[/quote]I have no connection with the club, apart from having a season ticket, and I have no axe to grind for or against any past or current owners (unlike some here). Far from spinning, I try to look at events dispassionately.As to comparing the Chase and Smith and Jones financial crises, I didn''t have the time back in the 1990s to take as much an interest as I do now, but from all I have read there are significant differences.  Chase''s financial model was based on short-term high-interest loans with, as a senior figure at the club put it, "the expenditure of Inter Milan and the income of Southend". Hence the bank putting a gun to our head and demanding an instant fire sale of players.With Smith and Jones (who not only helped the club recover from the Chase-induced crisis but also later navigated their way successfully through the collapse of ITV Digital) the financial model was based on long-term loans, with the vast majority of the debt caused by being forced to rebuild the South Stand. Of course they didn''t have to double capacity to 8,000 (they rejected the idea of trebling to 12,000, because of the extra cost) but I suspect most fans would agree they were right to increase capacity.Far from having a gun put to our head for instant action, the renegotiations put the date for paying off the majority of the debt back to 2022, with much earlier repayment only dependent on getting to the PL and staying there.

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No connection with the club other than season tkt holder and shareholder like thousands of others. What I post about 1996 is what shareholders and supporters were told at the time. That doesn''t fit with Len''s revised version.

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".. from the Chase-induced crisis"or ''hambition'' as many on here would call it

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]No connection with the club other than season tkt holder and shareholder like thousands of others. What I post about 1996 is what shareholders and supporters were told at the time. That doesn''t fit with Len''s revised version.[/quote]I''m still waiting for you to state what I supposedly revised, as Purple has just confirmed what I''d summarised earlier!

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That''s fair point Purple but I remember the fans criticising Chase at the time for borrowing to buy the land and not investing along with other dubious ventures I remember at the time and using the squad to try balancing the books.

Although both sets of owners have their failures both have also bought a level of success and like Chase times football has moved on past Delias vision.

Not that I like where football has gone and I hope it all collapses, as paying any player between £20k & £250 k + a week is just not right no matter how anyone tries to spin it, it brings debt on most clubs.

I''m happy to have cancelled my season ticket and look forward to becoming a post golf & pub air chair listener.

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[quote user="Len"][quote user="nutty nigel"]No connection with the club other than season tkt holder and shareholder like thousands of others. What I post about 1996 is what shareholders and supporters were told at the time. That doesn''t fit with Len''s revised version.[/quote]I''m still waiting for you to state what I supposedly revised, as Purple has just confirmed what I''d summarised earlier![/quote]
The board at the time told us that the club staring bankruptcy in the face

when Chase finally stepped down as its chairman.
They told us debts

were about £
7 million, the bank was going potty, we''d sold Ashley

Ward and Jon Newsome for
2.5 million and that had hardly bought us a month''s

grace with the bank.
Is that not right Len?

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[quote user="Len"][quote user="nutty nigel"]No connection with the club other than season tkt holder and shareholder like thousands of others. What I post about 1996 is what shareholders and supporters were told at the time. That doesn''t fit with Len''s revised version.[/quote]I''m still waiting for you to state what I supposedly revised, as Purple has just confirmed what I''d summarised earlier![/quote]Only if you look at a small portion of what I posted and ignore the overall context I helpfully provided.

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Bowkett was a bigger loss than McNally, as he sorted out the finances and had the self respect to stand up to the board when required unlike some others. He became and lone voice against the dictatorship, which meant he had no alternative but to resign as he in effect had no influence on events.

Secondly, the myth that ''Delia saved the club'' keeps cropping up on here. Some posters know that this is completely false, but some still buy into the myth.

She did no such thing. The nearest to anyone saving the club was Geoffrey Watling, so this Delia no sense must be put to bed.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Len"][quote user="nutty nigel"]No connection with the club other than season tkt holder and shareholder like thousands of others. What I post about 1996 is what shareholders and supporters were told at the time. That doesn''t fit with Len''s revised version.[/quote]I''m still waiting for you to state what I supposedly revised, as Purple has just confirmed what I''d summarised earlier![/quote]
The board at the time told us that the club staring bankruptcy in the face

when Chase finally stepped down as its chairman.
They told us debts

were about £
7 million, the bank was going potty, we''d sold Ashley

Ward and Jon Newsome for
2.5 million and that had hardly bought us a month''s

grace with the bank.
Is that not right Len?
[/quote]I never said it wasn''t right. It''s perhaps not a fair comparison due to the increasing worth of football clubs, but we managed to refinance a far bigger debt in 2009.If the worst came to the worst then we could have covered the outstanding amount (or at least a large part of it). In practice the club would have sat down with the bank and negotiated while we looked for someone willing to help refinance the debt (similar to 2009).

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[quote user="Len"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Len"][quote user="nutty nigel"]No connection with the club other than season tkt holder and shareholder like thousands of others. What I post about 1996 is what shareholders and supporters were told at the time. That doesn''t fit with Len''s revised version.[/quote]I''m still waiting for you to state what I supposedly revised, as Purple has just confirmed what I''d summarised earlier![/quote]
The board at the time told us that the club staring bankruptcy in the face

when Chase finally stepped down as its chairman.
They told us debts

were about £
7 million, the bank was going potty, we''d sold Ashley

Ward and Jon Newsome for
2.5 million and that had hardly bought us a month''s

grace with the bank.
Is that not right Len?
[/quote]I never said it wasn''t right. It''s perhaps not a fair comparison due to the increasing worth of football clubs, but we managed to refinance a far bigger debt in 2009.If the worst came to the worst then we could have covered the outstanding amount (or at least a large part of it). In practice the club would have sat down with the bank and negotiated while we looked for someone willing to help refinance the debt (similar to 2009).[/quote]
But surely that happened when the board took the cost cutting exercise, upped income and got that £3m loan from A T & T?
However that wasn''t possible until Geoffrey Watling had purchased Chase''s shares and put up guarantees to the bank. Before that there were all kinds of people professing to represent Norwich City and dragging the club''s name round every lending institution in London.
Is that not right Len? 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Len"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Len"][quote user="nutty nigel"]No connection with the club other than season tkt holder and shareholder like thousands of others. What I post about 1996 is what shareholders and supporters were told at the time. That doesn''t fit with Len''s revised version.[/quote]I''m still waiting for you to state what I supposedly revised, as Purple has just confirmed what I''d summarised earlier![/quote]
The board at the time told us that the club staring bankruptcy in the face

when Chase finally stepped down as its chairman.
They told us debts

were about £
7 million, the bank was going potty, we''d sold Ashley

Ward and Jon Newsome for
2.5 million and that had hardly bought us a month''s

grace with the bank.
Is that not right Len?
[/quote]I never said it wasn''t right. It''s perhaps not a fair comparison due to the increasing worth of football clubs, but we managed to refinance a far bigger debt in 2009.If the worst came to the worst then we could have covered the outstanding amount (or at least a large part of it). In practice the club would have sat down with the bank and negotiated while we looked for someone willing to help refinance the debt (similar to 2009).[/quote]
But surely that happened when the board took the cost cutting exercise, upped income and got that £3m loan from A T & T?
However that wasn''t possible until Geoffrey Watling had purchased Chase''s shares and put up guarantees to the bank. Before that there were all kinds of people professing to represent Norwich City and dragging the club''s name round every lending institution in London.
Is that not right Len? 
[/quote]I can''t see where we''re differing. Anyone lending a sum amounting to six figures or more would want the loan secured against something.

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