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FenwayFrank

Canos to Brentford

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When Canos joined, the reported fee was 2.5 million rising to up to 4.5 million. O.K. so by selling him for 2.5 million we are not making a profit, but we are avoiding habing to pay the promised add-ons, which is a good thing if the player is not happy here. Unless the promised add-ons were only to be paid if we achieved promotion, could we not instead look at this as making 2 million profit, and therefore good business?

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He has a chance every day in training and every u23 game etc. We generally don''t see that and others have deserved their chance more.

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[quote user="morty"]And if he was the absolute wonderkid that some are making out, he''d still be at Liverpool.[/quote]

And Naismith would still be at Everton etc etc

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It seems to be that Canos didn''t want to go out on loan. Also Brentford weren''t interested in a loan again.

I think this is a case of balancing long term needs and immediate needs. I have no doubt Canos will be worth more in a few seasons than Norwich are getting for him now, but he isn''t so good right now that Norwich can play him in the team to keep him happy. Best get the money for him back now (and probably make a profit over the next season or so) and go ahead with the players we have in that position.

I don''t think anyone at Norwich really expected Jacob to be as good as he has been this season so a clear way ahead was seen for Canos, I also think he was expected to be a little more ready for first team football than he was.

Basically, he wants first team football isn''t likely to get it at Norwich in the immediate future and has made it clear he wants out. Norwich have a willing buyer and can get a good price for him. I really don''t see the issue here.

I guess people like to frame everything in a negative light at the moment because they are unhappy with the manager and board etc.

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[quote user="ZLF"]He has a chance every day in training and every u23 game etc. We generally don''t see that and others have deserved their chance more.[/quote]

You can''t say that for certain. From everything I''ve read and heard of Canos he''s a decent guy and a grafter.

I really think this is more to do with AN''s ego. But, again, I can''t say that for certain.

The only evidence we have, is that he was successful at this level last season. So logically you would make he assumption he''s good enough.

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[quote user="morty"]I don''t know what to tell you, if he was good enough he would have got more opportunities.[/quote]

This is the point for me. With AN in charge there''s no guarantee of this. With his history of bizarre selections and sticking with players too long through bad patches when there are other options available, I will always have doubts over whether Canos was given a fair opportunity.

I believe Jacob and Josh to have more potential and be better players but Jacob hasn''t nailed down his starting place imo and neither Josh or Canos have been given enough of a chance to take it from him.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]It seems to be that Canos didn''t want to go out on loan. Also Brentford weren''t interested in a loan again.

I think this is a case of balancing long term needs and immediate needs. I have no doubt Canos will be worth more in a few seasons than Norwich are getting for him now, but he isn''t so good right now that Norwich can play him in the team to keep him happy. Best get the money for him back now (and probably make a profit over the next season or so) and go ahead with the players we have in that position.

I don''t think anyone at Norwich really expected Jacob to be as good as he has been this season so a clear way ahead was seen for Canos, I also think he was expected to be a little more ready for first team football than he was.

Basically, he wants first team football isn''t likely to get it at Norwich in the immediate future and has made it clear he wants out. Norwich have a willing buyer and can get a good price for him. I really don''t see the issue here.

I guess people like to frame everything in a negative light at the moment because they are unhappy with the manager and board etc.[/quote]

The issue is, there''s a chance that either incompetence or an ego is starving us of a very talented player.

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I think there is a direct connection between opinions of Canos and people who just can''t wait to rubbish our club.

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Lincoln,

Have you seen any evidence Canos is a talented player while wearing a Norwich shirt?

He had a good loan season at Brentford but there are tons of examples of young players have one great season and then never replicating it - Bamford being the obvious example.

There is also the evidence that Canos forced a move out of Liverpool as he wanted to play games so I think it is a safe assumption that him wanting to leave Norwich is for the same reason.

How long should Norwich force a player to stay when he wants to leave in the hope he''ll develop into a first team player? Norwich''s finances are tight and any wages he is collecting are wages Norwich can''t offer another player who can contribute to the first team. Norwich can''t just stockpile young players because they might get good in a few years time, the immediate needs of the team must also be considered.

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@Morty

That appears to be your default position if anyone is critical of anything.

I don''t think it is much of a stretch to be disappointed about this move. An underachieving club and manager sell a much hyped young player that was only signed 6 months ago after barely playing. I think fans have a right to be concerned.

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@bethnal

That all makes sense. But then why sign him? And why sign Pritchard? Stockpiling players is exactly what we seemed to chose to do over the summer.

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Just because he had a flashy name and Liverpool apparently wanted to keep it doesn''t make him anything special.

Some of you have never seen this guy play well and are claiming all sorts.

Was very normal every game i ever saw him play and no surprise he wasn''t near out first 11.

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"At least we''ll still have Jarvis on the boocks for the next 2 or 3 years."

I''m sure AN would sell Jarvis over Canos in a shot if he had the chance. But you can only sell players other clubs actually want.

Also calling Canos a ''proven championship player'' is a massive stretch. One decent season at Brentford, where he made more sub appearances than actual starts isn''t what I would call ''proven''.

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@kingCanary

When Canos was signed I think AN didn''t feel Jacob was ready for the first team. He ultimately forced his way into the team and Canos didn''t.

I suspect Pritchard was signed on the assumption that Naismith was leaving. It happened because the club got wind of the arising deal to Brighton and made a quick decision to go for him.

Unfortunately when the Naismith and Brady deals fell through it left Norwich with an abundance of players in certain positions and no funds to strengthen others.

With hindsight it didn''t work out well, but at the time it look a totally sensible decision.

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More proven than most 18 year olds then. For us he looked fantastic in the win over coventry. Yes they''re a league below but our lineup was probably a b or c team.Neil wouldn''t give him a fair crack, even though Jacob has been hot and cold. Just hope we get a decent sell on fee.

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[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]Canos has proven to be good enough at this level.

It''s nothing to do with ability. Anyone thinking that''s the case, is either mentally challenged or just trying (desperately) to be controversial.[/quote]He is certainly good enough - he was good enough to be wanted at Liverpool too. He wants to play football - and who can blame him. Same with Maddison. These young players are impatient and can be difficult to manage.  With Canos, he was deemed impatient at Liverpool for wanting to leave, but he did.  It hasn''t worked out and the penny may have dropped with him that we are not going to play a rookie in a season where promotion is seen as a must. Brentford is a good let out for him.  With Maddison, at least his impatience to play has led to something tangible - a good loan spell and now staying to fight for a place in the team.  For Canos, in retrospect, it is easy to see why it was never going to happen here - too much competition for a place in the team, as at Liverpool. He  plainly has a good future in the game, but he is not prepared to

wait for that.  He wants it now.  Let him have it - at Brentford where

he will be loved and in the team more often than not.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Lincoln,

Have you seen any evidence Canos is a talented player while wearing a Norwich shirt?

He had a good loan season at Brentford but there are tons of examples of young players have one great season and then never replicating it - Bamford being the obvious example.

There is also the evidence that Canos forced a move out of Liverpool as he wanted to play games so I think it is a safe assumption that him wanting to leave Norwich is for the same reason.

How long should Norwich force a player to stay when he wants to leave in the hope he''ll develop into a first team player? Norwich''s finances are tight and any wages he is collecting are wages Norwich can''t offer another player who can contribute to the first team. Norwich can''t just stockpile young players because they might get good in a few years time, the immediate needs of the team must also be considered.[/quote]

No I haven''t, as he''s not had the chance. That''s the point!

Your example of Bamford is a little irrelevant, as he''s never had chance to replicate his form back in the championship. He''s only gone on to play in the premiership since that prolific championship season, hasn''t he? Perhaps he''s one of those Jerome type of players.

Without seeing Canos play for Norwich, it''s logical to make a assemenet based on his time at Brentford. Since we are in the same league.

You may very well be correct. And you put across a good point of view, but can you deny Canos hasn''t had a proper chance?

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I think this is made worse because he''s only 19 we signed him because he has potential which he still has. However anyone wants to spin it this was a poor bit of transfer dealing by the club, The club might be right to sell which makes them wrong for buying in the first place, or vice versa.

Anyway it''s done, I''m just hoping the club is working on making sure these things don''t become too common.

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By all accounts he came here with a bit of hype about his prospects, but for whatever reason it hasn''t worked out. If at this stage he wants out then surely best to draw a line under it and move him on.

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Just noticed that he apparently turned down Leeds for Brentford.  Maybe realising he would''n''t be guaranteed games there either. Going where he is wanted and appreciated and can get regular games.  If it goes through, good luck to him.

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What he is actually doing is showing absolutely no desire to succeed at a higher level, and just reverting to the comfort zone of Brentford.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]It actually sounds like Norwich could make a profit on Canos.

Much of the ''fee'' to Liverpool was tied up in appearance fees, promotion payment etc.

I would presume the fee to Brentford also includes these, but as Norwich will no longer be liable for any further fees to Liverpool and you would assume Canos will play fairly regularly for Brentford then Norwich should do well out of the deal.

Canos made it very clear that he was leaving Liverpool as he wanted to play first team football - that wasn''t happening at Norwich. Klopp was pretty upset with Canos''s lack of patience at Liverpool and it seems that same trait might be the driving force behind him leaving Norwich.

It is a shame as he looks to have bags of potential, but there are massive question marks over his physical capabilities - he rarely played 90mins for Brentford and it is no good having a player who is good for an hour only.

Its also pretty funny as all the Liverpool fans who were (wrongly) going on about them having a buy back clause will now most of the fee they were expecting to get for him disappear.[/quote]

This sounds highly optimistic to me. The majority of the transfer fee with Liverpool will be made up from the up front cost, they wouldn''t risk it any other way.

Although we cant rely on reports, recent reports suggest we paid £2.5m upfront rising to £4.5m on future payments (be it promotion, after x amount of months or player performance).

I think the chances are we have lost money on this deal (taking into account wages for 6 months as well). I have to say though, if Neil doesn''t like him and with Neil here for the long term (whether we like it or not), then getting rid of him and accepting he/scouting network got this one wrong at a minimal loss to ourselves is the best we can hope for.

Personally, I would like to see him get a chance, i believe he is a couple of years younger than the Murphy''s and a more technical winger/AM rather than a speedy one. The problem is a club like ours need the funds to be able to bring in players in more key areas or who are a more finished product. So unfortunately we have little option but to sell in order to fund incomings.

To be honest, I would prefer to see us recoup the £8m on Pritchard as i consider that to be crazy money on a player who starts 90% of games on the bench currently. I also suspect this was not a player AN ear marked as a key signing, rather he was seen by the board as a suitable replacement for Brady who by all accounts was off last summer.

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Pritchard is a long term replacement for Wes, who is lasting longer than predicted by the club.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]It hasn''t worked out and the penny may have dropped with him that we are not going to play a rookie in a season where promotion is seen as a must.[/quote]So perhaps you can explain why in particular the Murphy''s, as well as Thompson and Godfrey have all been in and around the team then?Neither of the Murphy''s has any more experience at this level than Canos, so claiming he''s not playing because he''s a ''rookie'' makes absolutely no sense in the overall context of players that HAVE been chosen.Canos showed at Brentford that he can play very well at this level, there are indeed concerns over his ability to play a full 90 mins on a consistent basis, but I''d certainly argue that he would likely have done no worse than others that have been called upon so far, and at least if that had been the case we''d have SOMETHING to go on, instead of little more than idle conjecture.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]"At least we''ll still have Jarvis on the boocks for the next 2 or 3 years."

I''m sure AN would sell Jarvis over Canos in a shot if he had the chance. But you can only sell players other clubs actually want.

Also calling Canos a ''proven championship player'' is a massive stretch. One decent season at Brentford, where he made more sub appearances than actual starts isn''t what I would call ''proven''.[/quote]

Agreed he can''t be "proven" after one season, but 7 goals, 4 assists in 18 starts and 20 sub appearances (total 1670 mins) would be a great return for any winger in the championship.

To compare to Jacob Murphy, he has 6 goals and 5 assists in 23 starts, 3 sub appearances (total almost 2000 minutes played)

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