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Moxey speaks to NCFC tv

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how do you think Neil will be given the chop if we win a game in every 3/4 whenever we encounter a poor team then LDC?......surely you can see that it will just buy him more time and paper of the cracks. Only a sustained run of results is going for their hand.

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LDC, I always hope we win but am realistic enough to accept we wont. My posts reflect what I expect to happen in the light of much experience. What I hope will happen is an entirely different thing.

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What else were you expecting from Moxey? Corporate mouthpiece is paid to spout corporate drivel, which he does with consummate ease and slicked back hair.

If you were expecting a Mea Culpa from him you really need to wake up and smell the Galway Roast.

Apples

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]how do you think Neil will be given the chop if we win a game in every 3/4 whenever we encounter a poor team then LDC?......surely you can see that it will just buy him more time and paper of the cracks. Only a sustained run of results is going for their hand.[/quote]

.

**is going to force their hand

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]how do you think Neil will be given the chop if we win a game in every 3/4 whenever we encounter a poor team then LDC?......surely you can see that it will just buy him more time and paper of the cracks. Only a sustained run of results is going for their hand.[/quote]

I''m sorry, I just don''t get that.   A win here and there is the best we can hope for in the short term, whoever is manager, followed by a gradual more suastained improvement.  We may get a short term bounce with a new manager, but the old problems may resurface after a few months with a new manager.  Villa are still struggling to get going, even with superman Bruce in charge.  For me you never wish us to lose a match. Never.

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The interesting thing to me about Moxey''s interview is the other issues that are perceived to be even more important.I presume that this relates to recruitment and moving on of players? I don''t know if anyone knows better? If there are serious structural issues it would explain the stance of the board? Sacking a manager is always a risky business and if the structural issues persist it is less likely to be successful.As Ricardo says, we as fans are only interested in the short-term, but the Board needs to take a longer term view. Nevertheless, I can''t think of any structural reason that would explain the number of very soft goals that we give away. It is the lack of ability to organise the defence that convinces me that although the boards approach might  be correct, they may now be backing the wrong man. I was optimistic that Neil would be dismissed after Reading, but it seems that we will have to endure further misery for this to happen. As a fan, I don''t see any other option than to just hope it gets better and that we win and keep clean sheets - however unlikely that seems to me atm. To hope to lose is unthinkable.

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LDC, I tried to give you a bit of moral support on your "numpties" thread but I think you''d better put on your tin hat yet again. I absolutely respect your opinion and your right to air it, but I certainly don''t agree with it. Football is a far more ruthless business than it used to be 40 years ago and there''s no place for sentimentality and misplaced loyalty. The cost is simply too high. It''s time for change and it needs to happen now, and if losing more matches is the only way to force the Board''s hand, then so be it.

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It''s all getting out of hand because an incapable out of his depth manager has been retained for far too long. Deep down none of us really care who owns the club, who the CEO is, it''s results on the pitch that matter and to some extent performances. Neil has not delivered this for almost a year now, and shows no signs of turning it around.The first stage is to bin Neil, there''s no point in looking at the long term when the current manager is so bad.

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...its not going to happen under this manager LDC, surely you can see that, he''s lost his players to the extent that it is irretrievable.

He keeps referring back to the fact that he knows what to do to get us out of this league but whatever his message/methods were 2 seasons ago simply don''t work now.

look at the facts, we didnt lose an away game after he came in halfway through that season - we''ve now lost 5 in a row.

we lost 10 games all season two seasons ago.....we''ve already lost 10.

winning the odd game here and there, only prolongs the sitaution if we then lose 2 in between, and only makes the task harder for the new manager.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="ricardo"]That maybe so Jim but we are only interested here in the short term. Four points will see him survive IMO.

As always we await events to unfold.[/quote]

I know a Ricardo which is why many fans do not want us to win. Events should already have been enough to see a change but it''s clear it''s going to take a truly unpleasant, horrific day at Carrie Road to force the issue. If that''s the case then so be it.[/quote]

You see, this is the kind of post that riles me.  "Fans do not want us to win".  Eh?  Really?    Not wanting the team to win is just the most ridiculous thing I''ve heard.   If you - or "many", think that, then you are no fan.  If AN is able to win and turn it round, get us up the table over the second half of the season, get us in the play offs and win again at Wembley, then you will look very silly.  Not going to happen?  Well you don''t know that any more than me - but he could - and if it is the judgment of his employers that he can - then it is in everyone''s interest that we win as many matches as possible.  Even if he was to leave in three or four matches and get someone else in, we would still need every point possible.  Quite the most ridiculous attitude I''ve ever heard.   Same kind of stuff went on with Hughton - no wonder the players struggled, knowing the fans wanted him gone all the time.   The fanbase may be good and big at Norwich - when on song it is a great place to be - but since Lambert, there is a sense that we are failing unless we are mid-table premier league and playing free attacking football.  IT AIN''T GOING TO HAPPEN.  Sticking with managers is out of fashion - it''s about time that trend was bucked and a few clubs started showing a bit more gumption to stick it out - ride the ups and downs - and develop over a number of years.  We are on a roller coaster - when the roller coaster is at it''s most unpleasant you don''t get off it - you stay on it and ride it through.    I don''t necessarily think AN will last and he may well have to go sooner or later - but whatever - some fans need to sort themselves out if they go around wishing us not to win matches. And I don''t need to attend ANY matches for this opinion to be valid.

[/quote]

The point that you continue to miss is that we do not have a number of years over which to develop or at least to the extent that we do then we are far less likely to be able to develop effectively. If we were doing all we can this season and just missed out on promotion then I could take that but we are throwing it away without a whimper.

Who are you to lecture me on whether I am a fan. Its perfectly possible for a fan to feel that for the greater good its better if we lose at Brentford than win and prolong this agonising decline. I take that view because I think that Alex Neil is a very poor manager and I think that as soon as we remove him you will see a large upturn in both results and performance. I also think they will only be forced to act if fan pressure reaches a critical level, its virtually there now but every win will release it and at this level we will always pick up a few wins because we have better players than many teams. At some clubs it would not be necessary to have to think that it would be better if your team didn''t win because on a run like ours the owner and/or board would take action swiftly and in some cases pre-emptively. Unfortunately with our board they force this situation upon us, just as they did with Worthington and just as they did with Hughton. You think that your blind faith approach is real "support" but I think that real support of a club is wanting what is best for it and sometimes that needs matters to come to a head to force necessary change. just as the best thing that has happened to us in recent years was the relegation to league 1 after treading water in the champ for years. Nobody wants their club to get relegated but it was the one thing that forced our owners to wake up and make the necessary changes. Its exactly the same.

I am sure there are quite a number of fans who believe that a win against Brentford is likely to be counter productive in terms of the greater good of the club. I am one and will therefore be torn on the day. When (if) the goals go in then I will cheer but deep down any victory will feel very hollow.

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GJL MNC goodness not even us whinging whining negative fannies do not agree with your sentiment of hoping we lose.

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[quote user=" Badger"]The interesting thing to me about Moxey''s interview is the other issues that are perceived to be even more important.I presume that this relates to recruitment and moving on of players? I don''t know if anyone knows better? If there are serious structural issues it would explain the stance of the board? Sacking a manager is always a risky business and if the structural issues persist it is less likely to be successful.As Ricardo says, we as fans are only interested in the short-term, but the Board needs to take a longer term view. Nevertheless, I can''t think of any structural reason that would explain the number of very soft goals that we give away. It is the lack of ability to organise the defence that convinces me that although the boards approach might  be correct, they may now be backing the wrong man. I was optimistic that Neil would be dismissed after Reading, but it seems that we will have to endure further misery for this to happen. As a fan, I don''t see any other option than to just hope it gets better and that we win and keep clean sheets - however unlikely that seems to me atm. To hope to lose is unthinkable.[/quote]

What it means is that the board have bought Neil''s pathetic excuses and "its not my fault" lines so are going to allow him to flog players and recruit in January.

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I''m not going to question your fan status Jim, what I would just ask is whether when these situations that were, in your words, forced upon us - Worthington, Hughton and now Neil - you also felt that Worthington and Hughton were very poor managers and that replacing them would see upturns in result and performance as you''re predicting will happen when Neil is axed?

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]how do you think Neil will be given the chop if we win a game in every 3/4 whenever we encounter a poor team then LDC?......surely you can see that it will just buy him more time and paper of the cracks. Only a sustained run of results is going for their hand.[/quote]

I''m sorry, I just don''t get that.   A win here and there is the best we can hope for in the short term, whoever is manager, followed by a gradual more suastained improvement.  We may get a short term bounce with a new manager, but the old problems may resurface after a few months with a new manager.  Villa are still struggling to get going, even with superman Bruce in charge.  For me you never wish us to lose a match. Never.

[/quote]

LDC, I agree that no supporter should ever want their club to lose. This is obviously come about as a result of a state of affairs that is unacceptable. Personally, I want to win every game but....

.....you make reference to a gradual improvement. I just don''t see any evidence at all (and I do mean absolutely none, nada, nichts, rien sweet-fanny-Adams, f''all) that AN has any ability to turn this around. Rather the reverse, the evidence is that we are seeing a long term and gradual decline under his command. What evidence do you see that he can turn around this long term decline?

There comes a point where any long term plan needs to change and adapt. We are well beyond that now (IMHO), but it is never too late. I also agree that sacking the manager is not the whole solution, but it''s a start and a sign of intent.

For the record, I want a win against Brentford, but a horrible, scrappy, unconvincing one that leads to AN''s departure.

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Worthington had lost his way a long time before they eventually removed him Duncan. I feel that if they had acted swiftly and brought in the right man then yes it would have seen an upturn but by the time they did it it was way too late, the club was in decline and they then compounded the error by making poor managerial appointments.

Hughton had his strengths and weaknesses but should have been sacked half way through that season at which point we would not have been an unattractive proposition for potential replacements. Again, had they done so I believe we would have stayed up. Can''t prove it but that''s my belief. As it was they sacked him at a ridiculous time and whilst there was an upturn in performance under Adams getting results out of the fixtures he had (Fulham aside) was always unlikely plus of course he was not really a proper manager.

This situation is, in my view, far more analogous to when Neil himself took over from Adams in that we have some money, we have a very strong squad and it is massively underperforming. He was able to get the players going despite very limited managerial ability and I believe that someone such as Hodgson, Warburton or Rowett would have a similar effect on this bunch of players who we know can do it at this level.

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The funny thing if the rumours of player discontent is correct, is it''s his players that AN bought in who are the ones causing his downfall! Klose, Brady, Naismith, Pritchard to name the four who are being b Andes about.

For what it''s worth Moxey did give a good interview even if it was premeditated, he''s just stood by what the BOD have been saying, they are standing firm in their roles.

There''s a deffinately shift towards long term finances, so of course there will be high earners off the books, those not involved like Canos out on loan to cover wages and AN to continue as any replacement will be demanding a budget to work with.

Those who think Rowett would be AN replacement may be very dissapointed as the pool of managers who see our club right for them might not be better quality than we have now!

I also believe with the view of our current BOD there would be a very real chance that any manager will be from the home nations, not further afield.

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Jim Smith - I may not be popular saying what I say, but there are certain things that are sacrocanct in football supporting - or at least in my world there are - one of them is you never wish us to lose.

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That''s not true Lakey, sometimes supporters will want their teams to lose, Gerrard supported Everton but I bet when he played them in his red shirt he wanted them to lose! 😜

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[quote user="Indy"]The funny thing if the rumours of player discontent is correct, is it''s his players that AN bought in who are the ones causing his downfall! Klose, Brady, Naismith, Pritchard to name the four who are being b Andes about.

For what it''s worth Moxey did give a good interview even if it was premeditated, he''s just stood by what the BOD have been saying, they are standing firm in their roles.

There''s a deffinately shift towards long term finances, so of course there will be high earners off the books, those not involved like Canos out on loan to cover wages and AN to continue as any replacement will be demanding a budget to work with.

Those who think Rowett would be AN replacement may be very dissapointed as the pool of managers who see our club right for them might not be better quality than we have now!

I also believe with the view of our current BOD there would be a very real chance that any manager will be from the home nations, not further afield.[/quote]

No real surprise their Indy...if true. Klose, Brady, Naismith and Pritchard were all quality players before coming here and would be the first to see the weaknesses in AN''s training, tactics, etc. In the case of Klose, Brady and Pritchard, they would have also seen this as a springboard for their careers....which obviously has backfired on them. Not surprising if they are a little miffed and somewhat vocal in their disappointment.

This is all, of course, if there is dressing room discord.

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Indy - "Those who think Rowett would be AN replacement may be very dissapointed

as the pool of managers who see our club right for them might not be

better quality than we have now!

"I think that this is a good point. Many of the managers that may be attractive to us may also feel that they are in with a shout of lower premier clubs. I presume that they may have put "feelers out" through agents etc?

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[quote user="Sparge My Wort"]LDC, I tried to give you a bit of moral support on your "numpties" thread but I think you''d better put on your tin hat yet again. I absolutely respect your opinion and your right to air it, but I certainly don''t agree with it. Football is a far more ruthless business than it used to be 40 years ago and there''s no place for sentimentality and misplaced loyalty. The cost is simply too high. It''s time for change and it needs to happen now, and if losing more matches is the only way to force the Board''s hand, then so be it.[/quote]Moral support always welcome SMW :-)  though I don''t mind being unpopular if what I''m saying hits home sometimes.  In this case, it is one if the fundamentals at stake.  Always want us to win - there is always a way back.  Fundamental.

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That''s the real question which is only speculation, but lots of interesting little comments from Moxey to suggest there will be a realignment this window in players. I can see which will be the first on the list.

It''ll be an interesting January, if we sell the fans favourites, see White & Turner back in the match day squads and continue to lose games unde AN.

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A little extract from the glossy brochure (aka the NCFC Annual Report 2016):-

"The key potential business risk is first team performance and the direct impact on league status and position and ultimately revenue generation. Key performance indicators in relation to football are measured and reviewed weekly with corrective action taken where appropriate"

I''ll leave it to you all to ask the obvious questions.

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[quote user="iron_stan"]moxey oozes the character of an untrustworthy corporate scum bag crossed with derek branning from eastenders [/quote]

He''s not that good

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In fairness LDC where has Jim said he actually wishes us to lose? I agree with everything Jim has said in this thread and it''s really not as black and white as you try to paint it. The hypothetical scenario you mention in which Neil turns things around and we go on to push for a playoff place is fine, I would love that and I''m sure Jim would too. However, the chances of that seem very bleak given our last 10 fixtures, what do you think is going to suddenly change for us to completely polarise our form?

What Jim recognises is the more likely scenario, that any win, no matter how poor we play, is likely to buy Neil another 2-3 games, these games we will resort to our normal selves again; as has happened all the way through this season - conceding poor goals, looking disjointed and dropping more points behind the play off race. Until we stumble across another win, buying Neil another run of games. The continuation of this cycle will likely see us drop to the lower half of the table and it seems at this time to be the most feasable outcome.

Having watched the majority of games this season, I can say with total confidence that Neil isn''t going to suddenly turn this around. The continuation of him as our manager will only be of further detriment to our promotion hopes. If it takes us losing at Brentford for him to finally get the sack then so be it, it''s only one game and will give us an overall better chance of promotion this season.

If you can''t recognise the logic behind that then I find your opinion to be obtuse on this matter.

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Hank shoots Skyler - I follow the logic very well HSK and can agree up to a point, but the point that Jim Smih made was that "many fans want us to lose" which if the case is pretty scandalous. I don''t think many do want that, but even the suggestion of it should be challenged. Also, I accept that what people have seen  this season is frustrating with apparent repeatedness of the same kind of mistakes and they can''t see a way forwards under this manager. He will imo be sacked if we lose against Brentford and Derby, but I hope we win both games and kick start the season again - and that is the point - win a couple of games, get the momentum and confdence back and sudddenly AN will look to be the manaager we all want him to be again.  It''s not so long ago we were top of the division and AN was manager of the season. I know some of the displays in that good run weren''t convincing, but results are what matters - and he got them.  Now he isn''t getting them - but that will change. It will have to if he wants to keep his job.

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lake district canary wrote:

''''I follow the logic very well HSK and can agree up to a point, but the point that Jim Smih made was that "many fans want us to lose" which if the case is pretty scandalous. I don''t think many do want that, but even the suggestion of it should be challenged. Also, I accept that what people have seen this season is frustrating with apparent repeatedness of the same kind of mistakes and they can''t see a way forwards under this manager.

He will imo be sacked if we lose against Brentford and Derby, but I hope we win both games and kick start the season again - and that is the point - win a couple of games, get the momentum and confdence back and sudddenly AN will look to be the manaager we all want him to be again. It''s not so long ago we were top of the division and AN was manager of the season. I know some of the displays in that good run weren''t convincing, but results are what matters - and he got them. Now he isn''t getting them - but that will change. It will have to if he wants to keep his job.''''

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think Jim was merely exaggerating the dire position we find ourselves in suggesting that fans want us to lose. If you read through his posts on this thread, he talks about cheering and supporting the team throughout games in the same way as normal, but admits he wouldn''t help but feel a bit hollow inside with a victory - which is a sentiment I share with him. A strong performance and a good win, would still make me happy, but I would not regain any confidence in future results and there would still be a looming doubt that we will crumble again in the next math - as has been the case for each and every ''corner turned'' feeling we''ve had this season.

I would love to see us win the next two games and build a head of steam under AN like you say, my worry is how likely are we to do that? When we were top of the table, despite playing poorly overall, we were in the perfect position to pull away from the chasing pack and start to produce consistently-strong performances. There was no reason for us not to. As you allude to in your post; we had the confidence and momentum, as well as the full support of the fans. What''s the excuse for our collapse? There isn''t one. You want us to regain everything we had this season but we''ve already thrown it away.

Given that we have learnt nothing from the problems at the start of the season; the chances of us getting back to that ideal mindset/place, and then not throwing it away, seems very bleak to me. I do believe, however, that this could be achieved under new management, as we saw in our last promotion campaign.

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