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Rick Waghorn's Column on Dean Ashton

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I just read Rick Waghorn''s column covering the impromptu meeting Dean Ashton called with the press immediately after the Hull game. It had me wanting to dip into my savings and send over the water the violins and flowers to accompany this outpouring of admiration by Mr. Waghorn, admiration I would add that is less motivated by what the writer feels about Dean Ashton, and more to show how far Waghorn suggests the Canary warriors are prepared to go for Nigel Worthington. What a lot of old claptrap. If they were so prepared to go over the hill for Nigel then why, given the quality of players we have, are we sitting on 12 points out of a potential 33. Why was last nights first half display the first time this season the performance even came close to matching what was being shown ( only occasionally mind you ) the season before last. No sir, this affection is just another example of how "married" the local media is to NCFC. Feathering each others nest as usual. And the fans eat this kind of stuff up no doubt. Particularly those that only operate with yellow and green blinkers on. Calm the waters, all troops on deck, overall damage control at the fore to offset the truth of what Nigel slipped up on last Saturday as to what he really feels about the fans. No sir, he''s in charge and don''t you ever forget it. And I don''t need any of you good old boys telling me there was nothing wrong in what he said. If that was true the powers that be would not have sent him to make an apology, insincere as it was ( If I offended some of the fans..... give me a break ).

I have no doubt that Dean Ashton is a very nice and sincere young man. However, how far he is prepared to go for Nigel Worthington has to be coloured significantly by his limited tenure and how well he is being rewarded with contract improvement. I would feel grateful too. Others ( players ) may not. What I find most interesting, however, is where was Mr. Waghorn with some objective commentary on Nigel''s post-Reading comments. A much more interesting story there impacting a hell of a lot more people, regardless of which side of the issue you reside on. No doubt in my mind whatsoever, damage control at work. Elsewhere, a quiet word by someone with Chris Goreham to let him know what side of the bread his butter is on, and all is back to normal. I suspect the only tough questions we will see directed to Nigel in the immediate will be on this message board, where Nigel''s cousin Dicky will do all he can to throw cold water on any fire emerging. 

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A sliver of sense in there, if you search. NW''s attitude is "I''m in charge", and he is. After all, he gets the pressure, and ultimately the sack, if things go badly. YankeeCanary and the rest of us don''t have that to worry about. As to the rest of his post - bunkum.

He wouldn''t have been there to see Safri and the rest of the players run over to the bench after he scored: that said more than any newspaper column.

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Sounds about right Yankee !    especially the damage limitation part ...    Nigel and gang well knew they had dropped a gooly  in letting Deano play on  in a concussed state ,   sending him to see a London specialist  says it all !  

And I was amazed to see him play against Hull .  and that the medics had advised him not to play  unless he wore a protective mask ...  apparently  the management  ALLOWED Deano to play  without this mask  , providing HE  was happy about doing so !  whats happened to those in charge  taking THEIR responsibilites seriously ?  like  facing up to the fact that Deano was NOT fit to play !!!  and ORDERING him to rest up ...  the fact he came off early with a blinding headache  should  have sent danger signals to even the most obtuse ....

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So a manager says something out of turn about the fans, (which is probably a first for Nigel) and apologizes for it later.  Good for him, drop it now, it''s over. Dry your eyes mate.... 

Regarding Deano, reading between the lines are you saying that he tries hard in order to improve his contract?  I would agree to some extent, after all this his livliehood we are talking about and don''t ALL players want an improved contract?  More to the point, wouldn''t all of us like more money and better working conditions in our chosen professions?  Like Deano, most of us take pride in our work and have a passion for it, meaning that financial motivation is not the ONLY reason we all get out of bed in the morning.

 

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You''ve been listening to Wiz again Yankee, all a bit paranoid isn''t it, you and the other Worthy outers alone in a torturous but ultimately honourable struggle to expose the truth of Worthy''s ineptitude to a sheep-like majority who just can''t see it. How noble. How he has really lost the dressing room and every last one of the local hacks are just sucking up to the club, hmm.

With reference to the points total, you must realise that the league posision isn''t purely, and only related to the amount of effort they put in?! Whether what W said about the fans was right or wrong (all a little sensitive about it IMHO) that''s irrelevant in the sense that the club is a business and they would have asked W to apologise, not because it WAS wrong but because of the overreaction of some people to the comments. It may have been insincere, but why does it really matter what he thinks of the supporters.

Surely you''re wise enough to take whatever the club/players/board say about the fans with a pinch of salt, good or bad. We''re their bread and butter. Some of the players, coaches, managers out there probably care about the fans, some no doubt view them with contempt. I want good football and results, that partly comes from a good team spirit and respect between manager and players. It doesn''t come from what the fans think or say aside from if they''re happy and noisy. It''s just a bonus if they really care, but ultimately unimportant IMO.

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oh my god, how niavie are you yankee? are you perhaps taking on the football brains of your current countrymen? midllesbor''o red sox and monster truck at half time that sort of thing (you won''t have seen the budweiser ad going round to that effect at the mo)

we''ve got quality players so why are we on x points out of y? it''s really that simple isn''t it!
if it was that simple then we really could all be managers given a bit of cash.

pull your head out and get with the real world!

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I have been underperforming at work since August.  I think my manager should be sacked.

He tells me to work harder and be more effective and I just shoot wide when clean through on goal.

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Okay, let’s give the responders a reply.

The response from westoncanary has him “reading between the lines”. May I suggest there is no need to do that with my posts.....they are usually fairly well written, so just read the lines, it’s much easier. If you had read Rick Waghorn’s column followed by  my comments you would have clearly understood my input which was, to Rick Waghorn’s point, that it could hardly be expected that Dean Ashton would have anything less than a good attitude toward Nigel Worthington given his brief tenure and improved contract position. Your point, westoncanary, is an entirely different one, so allow me to point it out to you lest you also did not read what you wrote.  Your point is that most of us would like more money and improved working conditions along with the desire to have pride and passion in our work, resulting in reasons other than money being the motivator for getting out of bed in the morning. Assuming you have all these good things wc ( oh!, I just realised your initials ), at your place of employment,  how many people are there are running around singing your praises if you go to work with an aching back, never mind producing a full-blown article in the local newspaper.  As I said, Waghorn’s article was not motivated by  Ashton’s courage but rather by the lengths these players would go to for Worthy  (  Old Boy please note....that’s what bunkum is. By the way I thought I requested no responses from good Old Boy’s ).

Friend Spat retorts with full-fledged naivety, suggesting that the club would have asked Nigel to apologise because of the overreaction by some of the fans. SPat, any business or club does not make such decisions because of over-reactions by  some of their customers. They make such a decision because it is bad business to tick any of your customers off when there is no need to do so. This is the whole point that continues to elude many of the “look at me, I’m positive no matter what the circumstances” brigade. Nigel has continued over the past 15 months or so to show his limitations. It’s not about whether we win or lose the next game. It’s about whether Nigel is the kind of leader that can take us to the next level and keep us there for a sustained period. He recruits people he doesn’t play, he plays people out of position regularly, he plays favourites way beyond the time period that is good for the club, he fails to recruit appropriate strength for key positions ( Fleming should have been on the bench at the beginning of the Premiership season ), he fails to get our young talent the development potential they need here or elsewhere ( Jarvis/Henderson etc who will probably remain here until it’s time for their pension ) and now, when McVeigh has a mysterious return to form after almost two seasons, Nigel gets snappy at the fans negative reaction to his decision to substitute WLY. Would it have not been far easier to be a little more down to earth and just use the radio interview as an opportunity to explain why he took that action. Presumably he had a good reason that was not readily apparent to almost everyone at the match.

To a1canary, if the real world is the domain you suggest we habitate, then I would point out to you that the USA national team,  with a mere pittance of available cash and support versus what exists in the good old country are rising in the world rankings whereas England seems to be headed in the other direction.  To Nobby G, all I can say is “Tonto, given your performance and the fact you are still on the job, someone is marking your manager’s time”.

If you want an objective reaction from a football manager then read what Steve McClaren has to say on Soccernet regarding the fans reaction to the recent Middlesborough performance.

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No need to resort to ''toilet humour''.

As regards to buying players & not playing them, maybe the added competition for places causes players to step up a gear, forcing the manager to stick with them.  I don''t think we have any complacent players in our squad do we?

Can Nigel take us to the next level & keep us there?  Allardyce & Curbishley failed at the first attempt to stay up, look at them now. 

How many clubs are there where you here about players crying off injured, for the slightest things because they don''t want to play for the manager?  Not at our club I would suggest, any slackers are shown the door, whereas those who show commitment CAN earn a place in the side.  Step up Paul McVeigh, last season hardly used, this year is becoming a first choice.

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I am not trying to pick your input apart westoncanary but just ask you to challenge your own reasoning. For example, you question whether we have any complacent players in the squad. You then cite the example of McVeigh who, you suggest, has stepped up to the plate and earned a place in the side. As you say, he was virtually non-existent last season( apart from the great goal he scored at Manchester United ), so what was his purpose in the squad last year in a very important Premiership year after a long absence when we clearly had other key weaknesses in the side? Helping others step up a gear? That hardly seems plausible given our performances, so why were we "carrying" him?

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Once again, Mr.YankeeCanary provides a sublimely incisive summary of the failings of Mr. Worthington & his acolytes at NCFC. I smell conspiracy here. I strongly suspect messrs. Smith, Doncaster et al. to be in league with the horn-ed one; what do you think all those (non) training sessions are about? Obviously merely a prelude to the cabalistic meetings that ensue, well hidden from prying eyes, in the depths of Colney ...

 There is only one solution. We must rise up as one & DEMAND the installation of Mr. YC, the one true prophet, the all-seeing eye who perceives things with such lambent clarity that so trifling a matter as managing a football club would be child''s play.

Except ... How would we get his head through the door?

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Players come in and out of form... as do I at work. You drop them when not in form and play them when they are, generally.

Yankee, your glass is just half empty. I don''t see the media sucking up to the club, I see them telling it as it is. Simple as this: people have been suggesting that the manager has ''lost'' the dressing room. On Tuesday night, if you saw the reaction of the players to going a goal down, and then when they scored the equaliser, you have no doubt that what ever other faults or problems there may be, the manager has not lost the dressing room. That was my view from the Barclay. All Rick Waghorn was doing was pointing that out, and I thought he was spot on.

If you want my advice, you''d do better furthering your quest to oust the manager by focusing on real weaknesses or problems rather than pedalling conspiracy theories, although I know that is an essential and integral part of American culture!

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Thankyou very much yankee, you have just illustrated my point perfectly. England - team of supreme individual talents, USA - team of considerably less in individual talent (except for that african kid - remind me of his name) but which plays well better together at the moment. Yes, this is the real world and just because you throw a team of much supposed indivual talent onto a pitch, it doesn''t mean it''s going to be plain sailing.

Yet this would seem to be your view seeing as your comments suggest you expect 30 odd points of 30.

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I am not a Worthington fan as regular subscribers will probably be aware.

That being so, there have been two recent events that have not given me any encouragement as to the departure of Nigel.

After scoring on Tuesday, Youseff ran half the length of the pitch to celebrate with Worthington BEFORE celebrating with the other players - this was spontaneous, unrehearsed, and a kick in the goonas for me

Deano''s impromptu chat with the Press also, unfortunately for me, demonstrated a level of loyalty to W that I didn''t think existed.

Do not misunderstand me, I am knocking either event. They both showed that W has not "lost" the dressing room, and both are a credit to the player''s involved - it just means W will be around longer than I personally hoped, but I can live with that

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[quote]Once again, Mr.YankeeCanary provides a sublimely incisive summary of the failings of Mr. Worthington & his acolytes at NCFC. I smell conspiracy here. I strongly suspect messrs. Smith, Doncaster et...[/quote]

Cabalistic? Acolytes? Lambent? Blimey!  You don''t get much of that in the Snakepit or E-Block now do you?

Boys, boys, let''s not descend again into the usual digs and jibes.  I''m sure you''d both get on like a house on fire down the pub.  Let''s keep our mind on the topic...

The thing that struck me from Foghorn Wagorn''s column was actually the self / over confidence of Ashton, with his ''I want you to write this down word for word'' comment.  Spoken in the self-knowledge that he is the main man, and worthy to be listened to.  I doubt if a Peter Thorne or a Gary Doherty (no personal offence intended) would have the self-belief to call an impromptu press conference with such a swagger.

Reminds me a bit of Steven Gerrard and his ego trip as Liverpool captain.  When they lifted the European Cup I swear he looked like a man who thought he was the reason why they''d won.

Ashton thinks he''s the man, and he may well be right.  Old Foghorn Waghorn just toed the line and bought the swagger.

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To Andrew Young, a strange poster by his own admission ( regarding himself as a neutral and disinterested observer but distant admirer of the club....whatever that all means ) I would say you will get a lot further on this board with reasoned debate but, if you wish to use insults, your lofty, distant opinions expressed in the past referring to the posters on this forum as "you lot" suggests to me that I should have no difficulty fitting your hat on my head, with room to spare. Your opinions have been inconsistent and incorrect. For example in early March this year you criticised Worthington, saying you could not believe he was failing to see what every poster on here could see and that he was guilty of neglect of duty in not acting to improve the squad ( removing Fleming was one of your issues ). In early April you said Norwich may be relegated but Nigel was looking at a long term future in the Premiership ( presumably, you meant with us ). By early May you were telling us all to BELIEVE, we will survive in the Premiership and we had the players to do it. Most recently on a thread questioning whether we would make it back to the Premiership this season your insight was, quote, "Yes. Because something will change. So far, it''s all going as I predicted", unquote. Unfortunately, there is no record of what exactly you had predicted. Perhaps this came to you in a dream and you thought you had posted it. Keep working at things Andrew and you may become a little more consistent, or is your difficulty that you have your voice directed at a number of teams that you admire from afar versus those of us that were blooded on the Canaries? 

Amarillo, I don''t mind taking your advice at all except that I have made my opinions known very, very clearly for some time now on what problems emanate from Worthington''s management. As a matter of fact, I cited many of them again on this thread. I have not used the word conspiracy, you and Andrew did. It''s simply a recognition of the way things have always been, i.e. one hand feeds the other in this particular relationship so we should not look there for critical and objective judgement.

Finally, to a1canary, on the contrary, I don''t think I illustrated your point perfectly, I believe I illustrated my own point. You don''t need superstars to perform as an organised, disciplined football team. You just need good management and coaching and applying tactics that suit the occasion and, generally, the result will be players playing to their potential instead of below their potential. Incidentally, my glass is not half full. I just recognise reality when I see it. The optimists come out of the closet when we get a win but the fact remains we have achieved 12 points out of 7 home games and 4 away games. If you prorate that performance we would have been relegated out of this division last season.   

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YC
Referring to those who believe that managing a successful football team is a simple task, that they could do far better, as "you lot" hardly implies that I have an overblown opinion of my own abilities.
Worthington is not a perfect manager. I still believe Fleming should have gone earlier & I do not agree with all of his tactics, substitutions etc. However, I accept that he is in a position to know A LOT more than me about the club than me - or your good self. I said "may be relegated". And I still BELIEVE that if enough Norwich players had played with real passion at Fulham, Norwich would still be in the Premiership.
My prediction,a few games ago, was that things would get worse, perhaps till Christmas, before they got better. I''ll stand by that. I could easily be wrong; it''s only my opinion, after all.
Can''t see any glaring inconsistencies, sorry.
I do not follow any other teams  - I certainly don''t read any other message boards. I used to follow Notts. Forest, when Brian Clough was manager. Worthington is not in his class (nor is anybody else), but he is trying to build a decent, footballing side that will not be deep in debt.
Decency is, I think, the overriding aspect of NFC that I find attractive. That decency applies to the majority of posters on this board.

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Andrew Young - found your first post v. amusing... crystallised my thoughts perfectly!!   Personally, wouldn''t have bothered dignifying YC''s bait with a response

 

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"I am arresting you for standing in the Barclay. You do not have to say anything, but anything you do say will be taken down and forever remembered by Yankee Canary lest you dare to disagree with him and he can drag it back up to slap you down with.."

 

PS Iwan on the telly watching Burnley v Wolves. Good to see you big fella.

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[quote]YC Referring to those who believe that managing a successful football team is a simple task, that they could do far better, as "you lot" hardly implies that I have an overblown opinion of my own abili...[/quote]

Thats interesting Andrew Young ....  Brian Clough was a one off manager , but you fail to mention  the fact that , without  Peter Taylor , he was badly handicapped !   it WAS Taylor that  really ran the show , it was HE that found  the players , HE that organised  the team tactics ! Clough supplied  that extra something ... charisma  maybe ?  I believe what he provided was  an , in depth , rapport with  his team !  he was  the " agony uncle " [ some say aunt ! ]  , he knew all about players personal problems ,  he was a surrogate Dad !  

IT WORKED !!

Nigel  might  read Big heads book  ,  and learn !

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[quote]oh my god, how niavie are you yankee? are you perhaps taking on the football brains of your current countrymen? midllesbor''o red sox and monster truck at half time that sort of thing (you won''t have s...[/quote]

A typical ''insulting'' response from a typical Pinkun poster these days, which clearly demonstrates just how far these message boards have fallen from grace of late.

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I doff my cap, Wiz, to the evident irony of that comment coming from the ''King of Provocative Posts'' himself!  Many a poster on here would jump at the chance to lay your accusation firmly back at your own feet!

 

But, you know what, I agree with you: the atmosphere on these boards has changed.  Far more niggly backbiting than ever before.  You can hardly give an opinion these days without someone or another coming back at you.

 

Its psychological (to be pronounced with a Norfolk accent).  When I joined these boards we were in the middle of our Championship run.  We were all wearing our Green and Yellow specs.  We kept them on for the Premiership season, too.  Well, at least till Christmas or so.  But now they''re off and we''re blinking in the sun.

 

Nothing a good run up the league won''t sort out.  Hope it starts with a good stuffing of Brighton this afternoon.  (If we don''t win I think I''ll take a week off from coming on here to give all the ''Worthy Out'' vitriolic posts a chance to slide off the front page).

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At the end of the day the article is sycophantic (to deano, worthy and the club in general) in the extreme and should be read as such.  

It reads superbly as a piece of positive spin on the committment of the squad (and confirms my challenge to those who felt the dressing room had been lost as it clearly has not) but can not hide the fact that it was wholly irresponsible for the manager to chose to start the game with ashton on the pitch.   

Ashtons committment would have been demonstrated by declaring himslef fit to play despite the medics concerns and worthy refusing to play him on safety grounds (many sports have a 7-10 day automatic ban for such injuries because of delayed impact they can have on the brain) as no player should take that great a risk for the club.  It also worries me that the player himself asked to be taken off despite clearly being unfit by his performance.

It is truly excellent that the club remains united behind the scenes as this demonstrates - but it does again raise questions over the managers judgement.

OTBC  

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Blame the medical staff, not Worthy for heaven''s sake.  These are the people employed to oversee things like these, plus didn''t Ashton go to hospital to get checked out as well?

Bit chilly today, bloody Worthy, can''t even control the weather!

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[quote]Blame the medical staff, not Worthy for heaven''s sake. These are the people employed to oversee things like these, plus didn''t Ashton go to hospital to get checked out as well? Bit chilly today, blo...[/quote]

Hmm - the medical staff said he was not fit to play - what more are they supposed to do?

The person who picks the team and puts them on the pitch is the manager - not the medical staff (who gave their advice) nor the players (as admirable as it is that deano wanted to play).

Are you really saying that worthy isnot responsible for picking the team now??

OTBC 

PS - I shant be able to respond for a while as I am travelling the country for a few days (as I was last week)  - not ignoring anyone nor hiding from my convictions.  I will be back 

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Good evening wiz - i too was one of the early members of the pinkun message board so there''s not much point referring to me as a ''typical poster these days.''

What you describe as typical is merely and indication of the reactions illicited from people, including me and thee, who get wound up by some of the opinions that go on here. These vary and proliferate particularly when the team is doing badly. I have seen much vitriol directed at you for your comments in the seasons we have both been on here, but in that time i have seen how best to take your posts and where you are generally coming from. And on some (relatively rare) occasions i even agree with them!

Likewise yankee, who gets particular enjoyment out of being provocative, and there''s no harm in that, but he certainly provoked me here.

I''m sorry you find my post insulting, but let me remind you of the part of yankee''s original post that so incensed me:

"If they were so prepared to go over the hill for Nigel then why, given the quality of players we have, are we sitting on 12 points out of a potential 33."

I make no apologies for saying this statement is, at best, a gross simplification of the team''s situation. He is suggesting that because we have only a third of the possible points tally we might have, the players must not be prepared to put themselves out for the manager, implying they must have little respect for their manager. And i disagree with this fundamentally. I''m not saying they all think he''s the greatest manager in the world, or that they don''t disagree with him ever.

Everyone, manager, fans, board and press alike, have pondered why we started badly and there are many valid arguments for why we had 12 points from 33. Having a manger who has lost the respect of his players as yankee suggests is not one of them. Maybe Foghorn was waxing a bit lyrical but yankee has gone much further the other way by unecessarily and, as usual provocatively, implying the reason is that the manager doesn''t command respect from his players. Man U have 14 from 24, have the players lost respect for Fergie? Blackburn have 11, have they lost respect for Mark Hughes. Everton. 3 from 24, and i''d still suggest the players would ''go over the hill'' for David Moyes. Crewe, 9 from 36 and bottom of the table but Dario Gradi is still one of, if not the most respected men in English football. See what i mean about over simplification? As i say, yankee''s comments are provocative, tabloid style comment based on nothing but our points tally and which serves little purpose other than to create a storm. And well, done, yankee, you have! And as i must keep reminding myself, that is what you do, so i shouldn''t get too wound up - just enjoy the debate!

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