lake district canary 4,531 Posted January 9, 2017 JimI don''t see any problem with any of the above statements and I see nothing wrong with passing responsibility on to the players. They might not like it that much, but as long as we have managers and as long as we have players who earn huge amounts of money and are prone to being too laid back or complacent, then the more they get singled out by a manager the better. It''s a different idea from the mentality of "we''re all in it together" - but then they''re not, are they? The manager is always the one who gets the chop if the players don''t function well. So this manager is a bit different - he is open, honest and answers questions clearly and with no ambiguity. In that way everyone knows where they are with him - players, board and fans. Now while that may be a bit uncomfortable for some, then that is their problem, because it means they are the ones with the issues, not the manager. If people can''t handle the truth, then they shouldn''t be out there. To make it as a professional footballer you have to be pretty thick skinned to handle the pressure and the barracking of away -and sometimes home - crowds at matches. Good on him. I hope AN stays and everyone knows he is staying, because that stability and strength in the manager''s position will gradually develop the squad over time into a responsible and strong unit that knows there is no room for hiding or getting away with not trying hard enough. I suspect that some of our players have been told they are not working hard enough which is why some of them have not appeared as much as we would have thought - and that might account for the odd rumblings we hear about players not being "happy" - because they have told the truth about themselves. Tough, innit? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 274 Posted January 9, 2017 Klose was hardly given a ferocious critical public dressing down, but a tame assessment of an incident manager was asked, same as any influential event.However my view is tainted as I struggle with players ultra sensitivity to public criticism by the manager anyway, they should man up and accept the responsibility.But if its the latest stick for you to bash the manager and or club for, then knock yourselves out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Apples 1,320 Posted January 9, 2017 Agree ZLF, just looks like another case of mock outrage...some people really do need to get out more.Apples Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank shoots Skyler 2,094 Posted January 9, 2017 lake district canary wrote: ''''I don''t see any problem with any of the above statements and I see nothing wrong with passing responsibility on to the players. They might not like it that much, but as long as we have managers and as long as we have players who earn huge amounts of money and are prone to being too laid back or complacent, then the more they get singled out by a manager the better.''''________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________The more he singles out players and passes the blame the better? Really? Yet fans have been lambasted by you recently for booing and being negative...________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________lake district canary wrote:''''he is open, honest and answers questions clearly and with no ambiguity. In that way everyone knows where they are with him - players, board and fans. Now while that may be a bit uncomfortable for some, then that is their problem, because it means they are the ones with the issues, not the manager. If people can''t handle the truth, then they shouldn''t be out there. ''''________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________His comments purely opinion based, so please don''t call it ''the truth''. How do you think the players would respond to public criticism they feel is unwarranted? And you must admit, some of it has been, particularly after the Derby game which was a perfect time for Neil to get everyone pulling the same way.Look how Chelsea are playing now under Conte with largely the same team that completely crumbled under Mourinho. Do you think it is the Chelsea players that were to blame then and not Mourinho? Do you think Chelsea should''ve got rid of the trouble-makers instead? I can see a new manager here hamonising the team in the exact same way as Conte, imagine a clean slate for all of the players to work from, I could see us making a serious play-off push under new management. I can''t under Neil.________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________lake district canary wrote:''''Good on him. I hope AN stays and everyone knows he is staying, because that stability and strength in the manager''s position will gradually develop the squad over time into a responsible and strong unit that knows there is no room for hiding or getting away with not trying hard enough. I suspect that some of our players have been told they are not working hard enough which is why some of them have not appeared as much as we would have thought - and that might account for the odd rumblings we hear about players not being "happy" - because they have told the truth about themselves. Tough, innit? ''''_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Remind me who''s responsibility is it to get the players working hard and motivated again?And what about the players he has signed HIMSELF such as Pritchard, Naismith and Klose who have all had lengthy spells out from the squad this season with very limited opportunity to get back into it? You''re saying he now needs time to develop a responsible and strong unit, why are things like this happening with the players that he has signed? He''s already had so much time.It''s not just one or two players either, it''s the whole team who have looked lethargic, unfit and demotivated this season. He is responsible for this. How can you blame each underperforming player over one man? Come on! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,531 Posted January 9, 2017 HSSI don''t believe two years is long enough. You can''t create something long lasting overnight and for me it takes at least three years. I always said the same with Hughton, except he ran out of rope before he had the chance to build what he was after. He''s been at Brighton three years now and they are flying. I think AN is the calibre of person similar to Hughton. Different in style, but with enough about him to be able to mould together an ethos and way of playing that will stand us in good stead for years. The problem for any manager at Norwich is the expectation put on him, but if AN can weather the storm, bring the squad on and get the ethos right in the squad - and new players in not gelling yet is not necessarily his fault either - we may get that ten year manager that the club plainly sees as desirable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
? 0 Posted January 9, 2017 Houghton has been at Brighton 2 years 8 days! Don''t you check your facts before posting them????? He joined 31 December 2014! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barclay seats 4849 the 3rd 0 Posted January 9, 2017 Incredible that anyone continues to defend AN ,,, two years is plenty long enough to realise his shortcomings ,, none of which seem to had any kind of evolution over that period .The Lake District troll monkey keeps you all at it though 😳😳🙄🙄🙄 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rogue Baboon 0 Posted January 9, 2017 [quote user="Ron Manager"]Houghton has been at Brighton 2 years 8 days! Don''t you check your facts before posting them????? He joined 31 December 2014![/quote]Don''t let facts get in the way of a good story...As for what Alex Neil is building, well what is that exactly?I''m guessing the average age of the squad has come down but the average age of the ''core'' starting 11 is going up it seemsHe seems to have wasted a staggering amount of money in the transfer windows yet we still rely on players who have been relegated twice from the Premier League & we still have issue in defence, centre mid, left mid, & up front - at least we have the no. 10 position sorted... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank shoots Skyler 2,094 Posted January 9, 2017 Why do we need to rebuild despite having the same players we won promotion with under Alex Neil before – only now we are much stronger. Barring Redmond and Johnson, we’ve since signed Klose, Naismith, Pinto, Pritchard and Oliveira to name a few. Our squad is much stronger, why does Neil need more time when he had us playing at a much better level in his first season? You also completely swerved my question about you considering Neil’s player criticisms a good thing and ‘the more the better’. Yet you’ve shown completely the opposite view towards us fans? Please explain. And what is your opinion of the Chelsea situation – did they not do the right thing by pushing the manager over the players? Or should they have stuck with Mourinho like we are with Neil right now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank shoots Skyler 2,094 Posted January 9, 2017 You want us to give AN more time to get us playing as a strong and organised unit, yet that''s exactly what we already have been before under him with a weaker squad... Why can''t we be that same team now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,531 Posted January 9, 2017 Yeah, apologies about Hughton, thought he had been there longer. The point about a long term manager at Norwich is important though imo - it''s just that it is hard to achieve, with the expectation very high all the time. AN had a good squad and he got the best out of it to start with and even last season in the PL we were doing ok up to Christmas. What happened since has been Hughton like - and yes, I blame the players - the same way I blamed the players under Hughton. Its always too easy to blame the manager - some or a lot of the blame has to be down to the players. It''s about taking responsbility for their own performances and if they won''t do that themselves, it is imo fine if the manager spells it out to them - even in public, because it is then clear to everyone. It means people absolutely know where they stand and it should make them stick to high standards. As for creating a AN type squad as opposed to a squad he inherited - that takes time. He is still building his squad - and the time it takes isn''t just to do with players - its to do with the culture within the squad which can last for years, through different managers. Bassong, Martin, Bennett, Ruddy, Hoolahan, Turner, Howson, Tettey, Jerome, Olsson - all long term at the club, not to mention the youngsters who have been around almost as long in their formative years. The relationships and issues that surround a squad with such established figures is hard to affect from someone coming in from scratch like AN did. If he were to go, the inherent problems would transfer to the next manager and in 12 months or so time, we would still be having the same issues as now.For me you have to give a manager at least three years to get things how he wants them. Hughton didn''t get past two, for reasons we all know, AN has had two years now - but there are signs that he will get through the stage that Hughton didn''t get through - for a start we are not in the premier league, which helps his cause compared to Hughton. Give him three years and you can judge him more accurately imo. He will have more the type of players in he wants, be an established manager with the authority that his long term tenure gives him - which will help him mould his squad and it''s character. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
......and Smith must score. 1,341 Posted January 9, 2017 The fortune tellers on here have Klose walking through the door by the end of the month so who cares. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank shoots Skyler 2,094 Posted January 10, 2017 So Chelsea should''ve stuck with Mourinho? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank shoots Skyler 2,094 Posted January 10, 2017 How many managers have really kicked on at their club after 3 years of employment? Seems to me like you''re just making things up! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norfolkngood 1,086 Posted January 10, 2017 LDC ..For me you have to give a manager at least three years to get things how he wants themi Agree if you see a style of play a system or a improvement but when you see decline no system no style of play blaming everyone bar themselves its time to sack the manager Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,531 Posted January 10, 2017 [quote user="norfolkngood"]LDC ..For me you have to give a manager at least three years to get things how he wants i Agree if you see a style of play a system or a improvement but when you see decline no system no style of play blaming everyone bar themselves its time to sack the manager[/quote]The problem I have with that is that it sometimes needs to get worse before it can get better. Changing a culture or ethos at a football club, like anything else in life, often means things have to reach a low point before the embryonic new attitude/ethos is assimilated and can become prevalent. Like getting rid of bad habits, you have to allow the new desired and good habit to come through over a period of time and eventually tthe old habit you want to get rid of will fall way. To get that long term evolution, you need a consistent and determined aproach - and imo, AN is a consistent and strong personality, characterised by an almost total honesty and clarity with people he talks to - as can be clearly seen by his interviews with the press. Footballing wise he may still have a lot to learn - as does any young manager - but that is not a reason to dismiss his overall value and potential as a manager of NCFC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norfolkngood 1,086 Posted January 10, 2017 Well in the words of Gary Neville I''m not a chef but I know a good steak !AN is not good enough in Transfers / Tactics / Man Management (my opinion ) for a club our size Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,657 Posted January 10, 2017 Literally, your case in point was Hughton and that''s blown out the water but you still continue to contradict yourself pretty much sentence by sentence."it sometimes needs to get worse before it can get better" - Well it started well, and we''ve already had the getting worse bit with the getting relegated with little fight bit. We''re not, getting worse-r."Changing a culture or ethos" - What culture or ethos are we changing from when he took over then?"you need a consistent and determined approach" - The one thing AN doesn''t have - completely changing everything he believed in and admitting so after one heavy defeat against Newcastle last season.I want Alex Neil to get it right and I''m not pushing for him to leave right now but you don''t half talk repeated rubbish which can''t actually be substantiated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,531 Posted January 10, 2017 [quote user="hogesar"]Literally, your case in point was Hughton and that''s blown out the water but you still continue to contradict yourself pretty much sentence by sentence."it sometimes needs to get worse before it can get better" - Well it started well, and we''ve already had the getting worse bit with the getting relegated with little fight bit. We''re not, getting worse-r."Changing a culture or ethos" - What culture or ethos are we changing from when he took over then?"you need a consistent and determined approach" - The one thing AN doesn''t have - completely changing everything he believed in and admitting so after one heavy defeat against Newcastle last season.I want Alex Neil to get it right and I''m not pushing for him to leave right now but you don''t half talk repeated rubbish which can''t actually be substantiated.[/quote]1) I was consistent all through Hughton''s reign in saying he would need at least three years to make his mark on the club, he didn''t get that far of course becuase of the pressure to stay in the PL. That he''s done it in less than three in Brighton probably means there wasn''t such a big change to make to implement his way of things as there was at Norwich.2) It started well- but the problems at Norwich are deep and go back to the Lambert years - and maybe before - a culture can build in a squad over many years and and can be difficult to shift. 3) The ethos he needed to change imo relates to my previous point - and I''m guessing here - complacency maybe? Lack of inspiration compared to the Lambert era where the whole club was inspired?4) My meaning of the manager''s consistency is more to do with his character, not his team selections. His honesty and clarity comes across so well in interviews - and you just know he is like that with everyone - wysiwyg - and that, over a period of time is one of the most valuable traits to have. That he is learning on the footballing front is obvious - but like I said do you throw that away, or do you allow him time to get that right too because he has the attributes to achieve good things long term. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank shoots Skyler 2,094 Posted January 10, 2017 How many managers can you list who have really started pushing on with their employing club after 3 years at the helm? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norfolkngood 1,086 Posted January 10, 2017 That he is learning on the footballing front is obvious - but like I said do you throw that away, or do you allow him time to get that right too because he has the attributes to achieve good things long term. There is no proof AN is learning from his mistakes on the football front in fact he is getting worse !His honesty and clarity comes across so well in interviewshe blames everybody else FFS he even said in the paper the club charged to much for FA cup tickets after Christmas that''s why the crowd was small !!! maybe it was because we are in such poor Form that the crowd was small if we were playing well flying high playing good football it would have been full 25 pounds of not like other seasons we are NOT and can not afford to be a football manager training college Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samwam27 527 Posted January 10, 2017 [quote user="Dan Dare"][quote user="Samwam27"]PS Dumb Dare. It''s just my opinion, rightly or wrongly. That''s why it''s called a messageboard, to post up people''s thoughts/opinions on games/incidents etcTake a chill pill mate[/quote]and what was my reply ?"just my opinion, rightly or wrongly."ps perhaps a grown up could help[/quote]Dumb Dare. You kill me mate. I''m 46!Try not making personal comments about people, or as your posts suggest, things, you know nothing about!Have a good one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hairy Canary 697 Posted January 10, 2017 Don be silly Samwam27 if he had to limit himself to things he knew something about he wouldn''t be able to post at all, poor sod. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
