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exiled blue

As a neutral bystander, i have to ask...

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Firstly let me lay my cards on the table. i don''t support NCFC, i am a Manchester city supporter who now lives in Norwich. so i have "no dog in this fight" as our American cousins say, and it leads me to ask ...

Why does Delia, or other people who speak for her on the board, continually protest that they have no money?. From what i observe Norwich have no big star earners, and you get a healthy crowd every home game, i don''t know much about your commercial side (sponsorship deals etc) so am not qualified to comment there. I''ve done a little bit of research via Google and the Prem lg. websites and it would appear that you are to get around £65 million over the next 2 or 3 years, in "parachute payments".

To me, as a total outsider, something just doesn''t add up to be honest. I don''t seem to hear the chairmen and owners of other similar sized clubs in the division continually stating that they''ll "have to sell before they can buy", but maybe that''s because i don''t live in the catchment areas of say, Derby, Birmingham or leeds.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings, and good morning to all.

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Good post, and always interesting to get neutral views.

From other posters I think not all cash is available for player investment. We have spent heavily on Klose, Naismith, Pritchard, Canos and the like. They probably also have wages unsustainable in the Championship - so some have to leave before others arrive.

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[quote user="Number 9"]As you say, you''re not qualified to comment.[/quote]

Why isn''t he?

The club harp on about the mantra of money because it keeps them risk free.

Delia has this plan of proving all the billionaire investors wrong... of ''little norwich'' taking on the big boys with no household names, manager adored by fans and vast amounts of money in the bank.

Never gonna work! We won''t stumble across the winning formula because the winning formula takes money!

As a man city fan you may remember League 1 and how you got there, you sleepwalked and dithered and paid the price. Similarities here....

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Thinking about all the good your owners have done for the club and the area.

If you had Delia as an owner before that she wouldn''t have even listened to an enquiry from them.

As for the money problem. We came up in 2010 with about 25 million in external debt. We had to pay that off in our first two years in the PL. Our first year trying to sign some higher calibre players we wasted a fortune on RVW/Hooper/Fer, got relegated and have been trying to assemble a side while yo-yo''ing which means every window we''ve spent every meagre penny we have.

Often quite poorly as we have an antiquated set up behind the scenes, a nobody with no real contacts in the game and as evidenced by the past 3 years a poor technical director by any standard in Ricky Martin.

I could go on and on.

Our board is clinging on to the past because they can''t accept they''ve been priced out of top level football. We don''t have a modern set up behind the scenes, we certainly don''t have the best coaching staff available, much of the backroom staff and members of the board are close personal friends with Delia and have little on their CV''s to suggest their worth their position

TL;DR Our club isn''t being run as well as it could be. The deficiencies in our technical and coaching staff have lead to us wasting a load of money. The board clings on to managers too long and let''s them make signings to save their jobs instead of to improve the squad long term and we appear to have little desire to return to the PL (a league our owners hate with a passion)

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Fair question, and one that popped up on 606 last night where Sutton gave the board a good kicking.

There are a few on here who seem to have a pretty thourough grasp of our financial position, from my perspective it''s all about the size of the wage bill and money lost on big signings (for us) like Ricky which haven''t paid off.

Also of course the desire to stay in the black and a low appetite for risk.

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Basically ... our owners have no influential personal wealth to supplement TV money.

The parachute payments will be used to help us pay wages as we adjust our squad back to what we can afford from 2nd tier TV money.

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We''ve spent quite a chunk of money in since our second season under Hughton but we''ve basically spent most of it really badly.

According to TransferMarkt our top ten biggest fees spent were on....

Klose

Naismith

RvW

Brady

Pritchard

Hooper

Ashton

Nelson

Fer

Vadis

Apart from Ashton all of these happened in the last 4 years. And can we argue any of them have been out and out successes?

Klose is in and out of a team currently midtable in the Championship, ditto Naismith

RvW was a disaster

Brady we should make a profit on at least.

Pritchard has barely been played since he joined.

Hooper did OK but never established himself.

Nelson looks decent but is still very new.

Fer we at least made some money on.

Vadis was also a disaster.

So basically when we spend money we seem to do it really badly, regardless of who is in charge.

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I guess some of it could be PR and managing expectations. If you come out and say we''ve got no money and have to sell before reinvesting it both stops people questioning letting players go and also why we''re not signing anybody. What''s happening behind the scenes really though, who knows.

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Thanks to all for the honest and frank replies. You pretty much confirm what i thought might be the case, gleaned from other supporters i know and from the local media. I get the impression that for some reason, the board/s and owners of norwich seem to be stuck in some kind of "Darling buds of may" timewarp!.And haven''t yet realised or accepted that things have changed out there.

I always said when you had chase at the helm, that he, given a straight choice between :

(A) appearing in an F.A. cup final, irregardless of the outcome. And writing a great new page in the club''s history. or, (B) having an extra £1,000,000 in the bank, would choose the latter. sadly for all of you, I don''t think things have changed.

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Oh, and don''t know about the catering! sorry. Tend to get stuff before i get to the ground, so am clueless as to the scampi portions!. Did once get invited on a corporate jamboree though. That was very nice!.

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This interview in the Times November 5 2016 might answer a few of your questions exiled blue:Delia, who saved Norwich from the brink 20 years ago, is furious at the way in which money has corrupted the English gameOn

the occasion of their 20th anniversary of joining Norwich City’s board,

Delia Smith and Michael Wynn Jones have voiced their fears for the

future of the game they love and want the government to intervene in the

running of English football. They believe that supporters are being

betrayed, that the Premier League has warped priorities and that the FA

badly let down their friend Roy Hodgson during his time as England

manager.Their focus is mainly on events at Carrow Road. They revel

in going to matches, chatting to fans and guests, and backing their

manager, Alex Neil, “absolutely, 100 per cent”, according to Michael.

The husband-and-wife team will “never” sell their majority shareholding,

which will pass to their nephew, Tom Smith, a director. “Tom will be

the recipient of our shares,” Delia says.
Ownership has gone to Wall Street, Hong Kong or Dubai. It’s appalling
They

care passionately about Norwich, and also the game in general, which is

why they want to speak out. Sitting in the conservatory of their home,

they note that since the founding of the Premier League in 1992, a

culture of greed has increasingly enveloped the national game.Delia

and Michael rue the sight of so many clubs falling into uncaring hands.

They admire owners such as Steve Gibson at Middlesbrough and Peter

Coates at Stoke City. “Both wonderful guys,” Delia says. “But it’s

devastating what’s happening to some clubs. The big example would be

Portsmouth [who went into administration in 2010 and were subsequently

relegated three times]. That was toxic what happened.”Michael nods.

“Football ownership has gone to Wall Street, Dubai or Hong Kong,” he

says. “It’s appalling. Where will it end? Now it’s filtering down into

the Championship with Wolves [who were taken over by a Chinese

investment company in the summer].”Delia continues: “Football in

England is not looked after. You could put all the problems back to the

creation of the Premier League. There’s all that Premier League money

washing into people’s pockets and going back out to Europe, not into

here because we’re buying foreign players.” Michael agrees. “Sky and the

Bosman ruling, the two combined, and it’s an inevitable disaster

looming. Are Sky guaranteed to keep this [investment] up forever?”The

game is losing its soul. “I fear that,” Delia says. “I really do feel

for supporters. They’re treated so badly. They book their hotel rooms

and get cheap prices for their travel tickets in advance. Bang. Oh, that

game’s not on that day any more. The average age of a supporter goes up

and up. Families have to share a season ticket: one child can go one

week, and another the next because they can’t afford it. I’d love to see

supporters worshipped and respected because otherwise it’s going to end

up on television.”She once riled the chief executive of the Premier

League, Richard Scudamore, by suggesting that grounds weren’t full

because of ticket costs. “I had a two-page letter from Scudamore: ‘Sorry

Delia but seats are up.’ Michael helped me write a letter back. At the

time Bolton were in the Premier League and they were [almost]

half-empty. Scudamore was there and I went up to him, and said

‘half-empty’.“I feel the only way now is for the government to step

in and say, ‘Unless you get your house in order we will govern it

instead of you.’ Just threaten it. Football is so precious. It’s hard to

find community in the world but you always find it in football.“We

arrived one day at Barnsley and there was a coachload of [Norwich]

15-year-olds. I went up and said hello. They were full of life, and when

they got inside, two of them were carried out because they were

swearing or something.Percentage of English players starting in the Premier League“They

were singing, and I could see this is how they’re letting their energy

out. They are not on the street doing drugs, getting their thrills. The

government don’t understand that football’s the safe drug. If I was in

government, which I never will be, I’d say, ‘Right, we’re going to share

that money to support all football.’ The government won’t do it because

the Premier League is the one thing that’s giving the government

brownie points in the world.”Delia cares. Such ardour underpinned

her swaying, “Let’s be ’aving you” rallying cry to Norwich fans at

half-time against Manchester City in 2005. One critic demanded she be

charged by the FA. “They wanted me to go before a panel,” Delia says

with a laugh. “I had letters and letters from supporters all over the

country, saying, ‘Wow, if only we had a director like you.’ ” Would she

do it again? “Yes.” “Next time don’t wear high heels,” Michael suggests.Apparently,

the going was soft to heavy, so Delia’s heels sank. “Yes. I couldn’t

walk very well so everyone thinks I’m an alcoholic. They do.“I was phone-tapped [hacked] by the News of the World because of that!? They thought, ‘She’s got a drink problem.’ They had a man following me. I hope he enjoyed going to Mass.”She

reacts like a fan. “That’s really, really what I am. A fan.” Michael is

too, his affiliation with Norwich stretching back 60 years. “We are

stewards of the club, not owners,” he says. “The club belongs to the

supporters.”They consult fans. “We got the designer, Bruce Oldfield,

to design the kit one year [1997]. It was all yellow. The supporters

objected to this. ‘Where’s the green?’ ”
I couldn’t walk very well in my heels so everyone thinks I’m an alcoholic
So

they had a vote, handing out green and yellow cards at Carrow Road.

“Delia sat surrounded by supporters in the Barclay End, the only person

holding up yellow. So we changed it.” Delia adds: “I wished we could do

more of that. I’d like to go out on the pitch and say, ‘Shall we sack

the manager or not? Hands up!’ You would, wouldn’t you?” “Theoretically,

yes,” says Michael.She’s very conscientious. “I’m a very, very

passionate believer in God,” Delia says. “I’m writing a book about

belief. I can’t blame atheist scientists dismissing it [religion]

because a lot of it needs to be dismissed. I just want people to

understand what’s real about it [belief]. I struggle with the writing

but I am a communicator.” “You’ve just recently become

computer-literate,” Michael says. “All Delia’s cookery books were

written in longhand, and I was the only person who could read the

writing so I’d type them.”They make a good team, having

complementary strengths: the editor and publisher with his patience and

the famous, passionate cookery writer and broadcaster. “Yes,” Delia says

with a smile. “He never gets a word in. The balance sheet is your

problem because I don’t know which way to hold it up. I sit in board

meetings and I’ve plenty to say but not when it comes to money. I just

switch off. If you do cookery on television and write cookery books

which sell, that doesn’t make you a business person.”Maybe. For all

her protestations about “luck” shaping her career, Delia has always

seemed incredibly shrewd, tapping into public aspiration. “I was working

in this French restaurant and I saw people struggling with menus.“I

felt after the industrial revolution and two world wars when the

handing down of cooking from mother to daughter was interrupted, it was

hard for Britain to get to terms with cooking again. In the wars, people

didn’t have any food to cook with. There were these awful magazines

doing these terrible recipes about baked beans or there was Elizabeth

David and Robert Carrier which was beyond most people. Why can’t we just

all learn to cook?“People used to go to cookery school in the

evening. So, go out on a cold evening or you actually learn it in your

own home by the fire in front of the television? I deserved the success

because I put the work into it. The TV sold the books.” Viewers trusted

her. “You’re a perfectionist,” Michael says. “Every recipe that ever

went out was tested to destruction. You could see so many basic errors,

laziness or sloppiness in existing recipes.”The recipes, books and

television made the pair comfortably well off. “We went down the bottom

of the garden one day [20 years ago], to where I work in that little

treehouse,” says Delia, pointing to her book-lined haven overlooking a

duck pond. “We sat on the balcony and said, ‘What do we want to do with

our lives?’ ” Michael says: “We went through all the options, like a

yacht in the south of France.” Delia: “And then we both said: ‘Well,

we’d like our football club to be successful.’ We didn’t want anything

else. We watched the whole collapse under [Robert] Chase, all our

players going one by one. It was terrible.”Michael takes up the

tale: “Martin Armstrong, the chief executive of the Norwich and

Peterborough Building Society [who had joined the emergency board], said

to us: ‘If you could put £500,000 up we could offer you a seat on the

board.’ At which point Delia said: ‘If we put £1 million up can we have

two seats?’ We were firefighting all the way. We would have gone

bankrupt.” They bought shares and, in what Michael calls “a somewhat

cavalier moment, we agreed to underwrite the share issue, bit naive

really” and ended up with a 66 per cent stake.“We’ve never had any

money back from what we put in as shareholders,’’ adds Delia. “What

we’ve had to do is to rush to Carrow Road with a cheque at [critical]

moments.” Some subsequent loans have been reclaimed, such as one given

in 2008 when “the club needed £2 million urgently,’’ says Michael. “We

were amazed to get our loan back,” adds Delia. “We didn’t expect to see

that again. The majority of Norwich fans appreciate what we’ve done.

People come up and say, ‘Thank you.’ But there’s always whingers. They

want us out this week! 5-0 [the loss away to Brighton & Hove Albion

last weekend] Out!”Smith

worrys that football is losing its soulAlbanpixThey went to the

dressing room last Saturday to show Neil their support. “Alex was

devastated,” says Michael. “We really believe in him. He can be

[intense] but he’s an absolute charmer. He’s really intelligent.” Neil

has their backing. “My dream is to have a manager for ten years,” adds

Delia. “If we could do that it would be wonderful. If I had my way now

I’d give him all the time he needs. I would. But you see in football,

now . . . we’re fourth, and they [fans] want us out. And him out. We’re

fourth. It’s amazing”They will never sell. “No,” says Michael. “We

can’t on one hand [protest] that football’s being run from Dubai and

Wall Street and then give into it.” Delia grins. “The supporters will be

very disappointed to hear that. But no way will we sell. We don’t even

listen to any enquiries. Our nephew, Tom, is now a board director. He’s

35. He’s a very good board director. He’s a very passionate Norwich City

supporter and he will be the recipient of our shares.” “They will go

into a trust first,” says Michael. So Tom cannot sell. “He could if the

trustees think it’s right and proper. He can’t do it on a whim. He’s

been a fan since he was eight.”They will help to guide Tom, just as

Hodgson helped them while he was Blackburn Rovers manager 19 years ago,

as Delia recalls. “I met Roy at a game and he said, ‘What’s it like

being a board director?’ I said: ‘My problem is I don’t know anything

about football.’ He said: ‘That’s the most refreshing thing I’ve heard a

board director say. Come down to Blackburn and we’ll teach you about

football.’ They gave me lots of tips like how you need a comfortable

area where injured people can relax. I went straight back and organised

that. Roy was very kind to us.”They travelled around France during

the European Championship in June and July with Hodgson’s wife, Sheila.

“We were very privileged,” says Delia. “We went to see training at

Chantilly. God. Those players were absolutely amazing. We saw Gary

Neville doing a short pass session, which was absolutely brilliant. The

atmosphere was just so lovely in the hotel. Players had their families

there. We saw Roy. He said he knew it was going to be tough. [Hodgson

said:] ‘I’ll probably get the sack but I really believe in this team.

Whoever takes it over now will have the makings of a really, really good

team.’ ’’Delia has no doubt who derailed England’s campaign. “I

really think it was Greg Dyke’s fault,” she said of the then FA

chairman. Delia, Michael and Sheila were en route to Saint- Étienne for

the Slovakia group game when news came through about Dyke’s comments

about Hodgson’s future. Hodgson was soon in contact, voicing his

disbelief that the FA was effectively judging him game by game.“Roy’s

a really good guy,” says Delia. “I don’t think he was treated very

well. It’s all very well saying, ‘You’ve got to be tough’ but people got

completely thrown — the coaches and the players. I found it

extraordinary. I blame Greg Dyke. All sports people are sensitive when

they’re ready to go to a match — and then that hits the airwaves. We

believe in Roy.”She understands the difficulties of the role. “If

foreign players were restricted in some way, more English players would

get games and then we’d have a better national team. Danny Welbeck was a

really good player but he didn’t get in the Manchester United side. So

Roy was waiting for Danny but he wasn’t getting any games. How can you

be ready for the World Cup then?”Michael laments: “When you’re

fielding a [club] side without a single Englishman, that’s a nonsense.”

But what if Norwich were promoted with an all-foreign side? “I genuinely

don’t think the supporters would like that at all,” replies Michael,

who takes hope from the academy, which is not cheap to run. “£2-3

million [a year, minimum]. The Murphys [identical twins Josh and Jacob]

will hopefully now be signing new contracts. The supporters love ‘One of

our own’ [the chant]. ” Which is why Carrow Road will today salute

Delia and Michael, two of their own.

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Erm, never read that before. Not really a lot i can say. In a way, she''s correct, the foreign influence is all pervading and frankly overwhelming, but it''s done now.

She rails against the Sky money, but will accept the near 100 million for last season in the Prem plus the 60+ million in ''parachute payments''?. The genie can''t be put back in the bottle. Delia seems, from that , very ill informed or naive.

Good luck.

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[quote user="exiled blue"]Erm, never read that before. Not really a lot i can say. In a way, she''s correct, the foreign influence is all pervading and frankly overwhelming, but it''s done now.

She rails against the Sky money, but will accept the near 100 million for last season in the Prem plus the 60+ million in ''parachute payments''?. The genie can''t be put back in the bottle. Delia seems, from that , very ill informed or naive.

Good luck.[/quote]Quite a lot of both imo.  Don''t think luck comes into it tbh!  Miracle required with that attitude.  Thanks for your interest.

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[quote user="king canary"]God I forgot how depressing that interview is.[/quote]Exactly why I thought exiled blue should read it.[;)]

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It probably sounds overdramatic but that interview combined with the events of this season has left me feeling less connected to the club than ever in my time as a supporter.

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[quote user="king canary"]It probably sounds overdramatic but that interview combined with the events of this season has left me feeling less connected to the club than ever in my time as a supporter.[/quote]It''s not overdramatic KC.  Maybe people need to be reminded of that interview to combine with the performance over the last 2/3 months.

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Buh wrote the following post at 15/01/2017 11:37 AM:

Get lost binner

You idiot. He clearly states himself as a Man City fan.

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"God I forgot how depressing that interview is."

At least it is assuring in that she has the best interests of your club at heart, however she seems totally out of touch with reality, and the way that football works now. If she persists with her, frankly, ''quaint'' way of doing things, then i would fear for you.

just my opinion.

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[quote user="Buh"]Get lost binner[/quote]The OP says he is a Man City fan so read a little further than exiled blue mate.

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[quote user="JF"]Buh wrote the following post at 15/01/2017 11:37 AM:

Get lost binner

You idiot. He clearly states himself as a Man City fan.[/quote]^This

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I think the best words that describe Delia Smith and her husband are naive and stubborn. They are taking the club back to where it was before Paul Lambert saved it. They weren''t moaning about the PL money then when it saved them from a financial black hole were they.

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I knew someone would accuse me of being a ''binner''. i''m not, i can assure you.

Was a ''junior blue'' at the age of 10, and a card carrying ''Kippax street'' stand card holder for years.

Moved down here when the RAF sent me here , and stayed.

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"They weren''t moaning about the PL money then when it saved them from a financial black hole were they."

That''s exactly the point i was making earlier, i wouldn''t expect them to turn down the 160 million that last season in the Prem earned the club, but to turn and slate the money in the said division is a bit rich (no pun intended)

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