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Syteanric

we've seen the future today.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="Making Plans"][quote user="ricardo"]FFS, snap out of it. If you want constant success go and support one of the big boys. We are NCFC, it''s all ups and downs and we will get through the downs

It''s what we do.[/quote]It may be "what we do" and it''s not about wanting "constant success"It''s about learning from previous mistakes and not making excactly the same mistakes again, and again and again.

[/quote]

Clubs do indeed go through cycles of success and struggle bug that does not mean you should accept it being self inflicted or the club doing nothing to try and avoid it.[/quote]It''s almost as if what Ricardo''s saying is that nobody can do anything. We should just accept a clueless manager and board!

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[quote user="Syteanric"]Don''t expect regular success.

I''d be happy if we emulated Stoke, Bournemouth or Watford though...

Progressive clubs establishing as one of the 20 best in the country with a real chance of cup success...[/quote]

Stoke are established but Bournemouth and Watford are currently no different to where we were a couple of seasons back and in a season or twos time they could just as easily be where we are now. If in 3 or 4 seasons Bournemouth and Watford are still there and have stayed in the top division and we have floundered around where we currently are I''ll agree with you.

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There is nothing wrong with continuing to watch or support your team in any division as long as what you are watching is entertaining and exciting more than it is boring and turgid.

I was accused of being ''lil ole Naarrridge when I mentioned last season that I would be content for us to spend time in the Championship if was leading to a new dynasty of home grown players mixed with clever signings serving up football that was good on the eye and had the potential to get us promoted.

It does appear that the current coaching team cannot achieve that. Last night putting on a full back for a striker when there was Morris on the bench told me that the current outfit are too scared to give it a go.

Was that point we gained last night really so important than giving it a go and trying to win?

There will still be 25K+ for home games next season as there is no competition to attract the supporters away. If the income is carefully controlled and a new coaching team who can recognise potentially good players from lower leagues (the lad Woods, it may have been a one off, ran the midfield and he was yet another Shrewsbury product) and send them out to try and win.

I hope the directors recognise this and use this period to put a proper plan in place.

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[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]I think that Maxim Demin and Giampaolo Pozzo put Bournemouth and Watford in a far stronger position than we were ever in![/quote]

Time will tell

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See the doom merchants are out in force on this thread.  Woe is me, oh Woe is me,We''re heading down the lavortry,I can''t look up, my mind''s made up, We''ll end up in the bottom three.We are where we are - mid table.  We can go up the table or we can go down it.  If you like, look at the last six results compared to the previous six - two wins and a draw in there, compared to six defeats in the previous ones.  Small consolation, maybe, but things are better than they were - and last night, the players that fought out a hard match with ten men deserve respect for that.  The manager remains focussed and calm - great credit to him for that - and the players appear to be playing for him, or they would have folded last night.  I know you won''t change your views because of me, but I''m going to say it anyway -  it is possible to be optimistic even when things aren''t quite how we want them to be.  Ricardo is right, you need to snap out of it - there are still plenty of games to be able to get back amongst the top six - and under this manager, too.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]Ricardo is right, you need to snap out of it - there are still plenty of games to be able to get back amongst the top six - and under this manager, too. [/quote]The only way we''ll get into the top six under this manager is if we''re playing in league one.

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If anybody seriously thinks we can reach the top 6 then they need their head examined! Hope is one thing, blind optimism with nothing to back it up is another. could you imagine this lot in the PL if by some miracle we made it!!

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[quote user="lake district canary"]See the doom merchants are out in force on this thread.  Woe is me, oh Woe is me,We''re heading down the lavortry,I can''t look up, my mind''s made up, We''ll end up in the bottom three.We are where we are - mid table.  We can go up the table or we can go down it.  If you like, look at the last six results compared to the previous six - two wins and a draw in there, compared to six defeats in the previous ones.  Small consolation, maybe, but things are better than they were - and last night, the players that fought out a hard match with ten men deserve respect for that.  The manager remains focussed and calm - great credit to him for that - and the players appear to be playing for him, or they would have folded last night.  I know you won''t change your views because of me, but I''m going to say it anyway -  it is possible to be optimistic even when things aren''t quite how we want them to be.  Ricardo is right, you need to snap out of it - there are still plenty of games to be able to get back amongst the top six - and under this manager, too.

[/quote]

7 points from the last 6 games is not championship winning form or even play-off reaching form - in fact it is relegation form if maintained across a season. As turn arounds go, it''s pretty minor.

As for trying to make it look although our brave 10 men held on for a plucky draw!! Brady was sent off with 10 mins to go (plus injury time). The previous 80 mins were turgid garbage, where there was little evidence of them playing for their manager.

I agree that Neil looks calm, but only in the same way as a rabbit looks calm when caught in the headlights.

I''m sorry LDC, I''d admire your faith, but that is all it is right now. I just can''t see anything in Neil that suggests he has any ability to turn this around. 2016 was such an awful year for NCFC, I am simply so deflated and weary right now.

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[quote user="Len"][quote user="lake district canary"]Ricardo is right, you need to snap out of it - there are still plenty of games to be able to get back amongst the top six - and under this manager, too. [/quote]The only way we''ll get into the top six under this manager is if we''re playing in league one.[/quote]Well said LDC

and shove it up your ar  se bin boy Len

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[quote user="Syteanric"]We beat Brentford 5 0 at home too....

One swallow does not make a summer.[/quote]it can make for a good evening though

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And in those five games we have seen nothing to suggest that things are looking up.

We look worse than last season.

We can wait 35 games if you like, but where exactly do you think we will be at that stage?

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I think things will change. the errors are so easy to spot. Frake might be an excellent coach and the others great motivators but allowing the players to get away with not marking cannot continue. It is such an obvious mistake.Repeated time and time again. I cannot see senior players sitting quiet and taking the flak for what appears to be some tactical lunacy. If the players looked disinterested then is it any wonder.

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I think Farke would actually be a fantastic assistant manager and coach, one of the best in the business if we had a stronger manager ahead of him in the pecking order.this reminds me of Peter Grant all over again.

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Always interesting to get a neutral perspective:

https://www.racingpost.com/sport/team-in-focus/norwich-not-as-bad-as-shocking-scoreline-at-millwall-suggests/298473

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Indeed it is Vw. What I find a bit spooky is that his observations chime in exactly with mine.

I really find it all very odd. For the past few seasons Norwich have played some of the best football I''ve seen in the Champs. Very seldom have we actually been outplayed in terms of quality, but the concentration & gumption have let us down too often.

It''s as if we know we''re the best, we play the best, therefore we should win. But of course it just don''t work like that.

I''ve lost count of the number of teams that just sit with 10 men behind the ball as we fruitlessly launch wave after wave of attack. We nearly score hatfuls of goals.

Nearly.

We''re just not quite good enough to pick our way through. Too often we try & walk it into the net. Balls go flashing across the area. last ditch tackles, goal line clearances, defenders more physically determined than our attackers, goalies always, always playing out of their skins, that''s the pattern in so many matches.

Attack wise we''ve got it all. What we don''t have is what Grant Holt had. Guile, determination & sheer physical presence allied to a brilliant attitude that said " don''t get beat!"

This season it''s possibly even more frustrating. We now have CBs who are big, strong, ''comfortable'' on the ball but cannot tackle or head or have the wit to sense danger coming. I don''t think Husband is actually that bad but he gets little support, & Pinto is really a wing back, often missing in defence.

Phil from Dubai got it spot on at the end of Canary Call. We''re trying to be Arsenal without the resources. It''s a recipe for - well, a lot of pain at least.

Farke looked worryingly dismayed in his post match interview. I just pray he can find a way to turn this around.

It''s possible, but he needs to do something drastic with Franke & Zimmerman for starters. And he needs someone like Tettey to do the dirty work in midfield.

Oh well, per ardua ad astra. Or something.

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never any doubts about our quality going forward but some of that defending was a complete joke. we are drawing real parallels with arsenals start this season tbh with the defence just making so many basic errors we make it so easy for the opposition.

Goal 1 there was a distinct lack of communication, I don''t actually know what Martin was doing as he wasn''t challenging for the header or tracking the run of Gregory, seems pointless to even be there.

Goal 2 again Martin was left chasing shadows trying to be in 2 places at once leaving him nowhere. seems a distinct lack of planning and responsibility delegation going on.

Goal 3 we just backed off and allowed it. someone needs to put a foot in there even if it does lead to a foul.

Goal 4 the defence was completely static and nobody was actually even watching the runner who used his momentum to dominate the defender (husband?) someone should have been jostling for space with the attacker and making it hard for him to get that momentum.

other weeks our attacks and good forward olay will come off but our defence looks alarmingly shoddy in all aspects. I don''t actually think this week it was the midfield most at fault and the lack of cover there, it was 4 very easily preventable, basic goals we conceded. we need Klose back, a new left back and a new centre back desperately or we are going nowhere this season.

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[quote user="ron obvious"]Indeed it is Vw. What I find a bit spooky is that his observations chime in exactly with mine.

I really find it all very odd. For the past few seasons Norwich have played some of the best football I''ve seen in the Champs. Very seldom have we actually been outplayed in terms of quality, but the concentration & gumption have let us down too often.

It''s as if we know we''re the best, we play the best, therefore we should win. But of course it just don''t work like that.

I''ve lost count of the number of teams that just sit with 10 men behind the ball as we fruitlessly launch wave after wave of attack. We nearly score hatfuls of goals.

Nearly.

We''re just not quite good enough to pick our way through. Too often we try & walk it into the net. Balls go flashing across the area. last ditch tackles, goal line clearances, defenders more physically determined than our attackers, goalies always, always playing out of their skins, that''s the pattern in so many matches.

Attack wise we''ve got it all. What we don''t have is what Grant Holt had. Guile, determination & sheer physical presence allied to a brilliant attitude that said " don''t get beat!"

This season it''s possibly even more frustrating. We now have CBs who are big, strong, ''comfortable'' on the ball but cannot tackle or head or have the wit to sense danger coming. I don''t think Husband is actually that bad but he gets little support, & Pinto is really a wing back, often missing in defence.

Phil from Dubai got it spot on at the end of Canary Call. We''re trying to be Arsenal without the resources. It''s a recipe for - well, a lot of pain at least.

Farke looked worryingly dismayed in his post match interview. I just pray he can find a way to turn this around.

It''s possible, but he needs to do something drastic with Franke & Zimmerman for starters. And he needs someone like Tettey to do the dirty work in midfield.

Oh well, per ardua ad astra. Or something.[/quote]

I haven''t seen any football since we played Brighton towards the end of last season, so can only go on what others say. The statistic I liked regarding Farke was that in finishing second last season Borussia Dortmund II only lost 3 games, but only won 16 and drew 15. The team that finished top lost 8 but won 23 and drew only 3.That suggested Farke very much prioritised defence, and not losing, rather like Hughton but - I hoped - without the latter''s refusal to switch to a more attacking style during games if required.If so, then the obsession with possession makes sense. If it works it is a kind of virtuous circle - keeping possession and not conceding leads to an increasingly frustrated opposition leading to more possession and so on. It doesn''t matter that much that the possession may be sterile. It has a strategic purpose of itself.At the moment we have almost the opposite, of a vicious circle, with the opposition happy for us to have sterile possession because they are already a goal or two or three ahead. Or soon will be...My optimistic side believes Farke can sort the defence out, perhaps with someone in this week, and some changes, and the circle will become virtuous.As to money, there have been several posts about what we should have done differently in the transfer market, last season and this, that pay lip-service to our financial realities but then cheerfully ignore them!For example, that we should have pushed the boat out last winter to try to get promotion. The accounts may confirm this but I believe last summer the board backed Neil as much as could have been expected in an effort to get straight back up. But to splash out more money in the winter on high-wage players with long contracts would have been a quite unjustified risk. If we had done that and not gone up (and by then in effect it would have had to have been via the play-offs) would have meant a savage trimming of the squad this last summer and/or a bloody massacre of Game of Thrones proportions next summer.

And as to this summer, posters can argue about whether we should have kept this player or that. But, unlike most previous windows, when we either spent as much as or more than we received, the necessity - because of the ending of parachute payments - was to cut spending. Almost certainly in tems of transfer fees but definitely in terms of wages long-term, while also reducing the average age of the squad. I have seen posts complaing that the squad isn''t as good. Well no, quite possibly not!

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"My optimistic side believes Farke can sort the defence out, perhaps with someone in this week, and some changes, and the circle will become virtuous."

I hope we do get somebody in to assist with defensive organisation and push hard on individual responsibilities.

This is where I hope there is an advantage in the new regime, Webber will be able to make these arrangements and it won''t be left to the manager to recognise he needs help and have the courage to admit and ask for it.

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