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lake district canary

How it is.

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Alex Neil  is intelligent, likeable, has a bit of gumption, has proved he can get teams promoted and has proved he gets young players involved.  His football is based on attack and scoring more goals than the opposition and has proved himself on big occasions.  Nothing there not to like.  However, the players are making silly mistakes - nearly every goal against is down to an error.  Saturday it was  Olsson who couldn''t control or get rid of a ball by the far post and ended up following the ball into the net and getting himself sent off.  A comedy of errors.  So where is the steel in the team and the manager?  AN is known as a strong figure, the players have been strong in the past, so what is wrong at the moment?  I''ll tell you what it is - it is confidence.  For whatever reason, the confidence has gone. The fight is there, as witnessed in the second half on Saturday (according to reports and those who went) - but once you get edgy or tentative about things - mistakes happen.  And that is true in all walks of life. What it takes in football to get that confidence back is hard work, some gumption and a little bit of luck.  Football is unforgiving, when you are down, other teams can smell it and they take advantage.  But if players believe in themelves to be able to turn it round - they will - and its like when a goal scorer is off form - sometimes it takes a silly little goal, scored with your backside or off your shoulder to get you back on track. What we need on Saturday is the hard work, the belief - and that little bit of luck. Once we have that, we can start to get back on track.  Some want AN gone - an obvious idea maybe - but I hope, just for once, fans can stay loyal to him and help us through this tricky period.  Fans are emotional and want success, winning every week and good football.  That isn''t always possible. Imo, once the players get back to winning ways, have that little bit of luck that is needed, we will see a rise up the table again. So people it seems are getting to the stage they want AN gone - he''s under pressure, right enough, but if he and the team can answer that and get back on track in the next two or three games, we will be stronger for it later in the season.  It''s a long, long season - time yet to turn it round.  AN is under pressure, but if he is the man and manager he has the reputation as being - we will come through the problems and be better for it in the second part of the season - the part of the season that matters.

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"just for once, fans can stay loyal to him and help us through this tricky period"

What game have they turned on him ? He''s got off lightly If ya ask me.

Don''t you think fans have stayed loyal to him after an awfull season last season when we got relegated and the crowd still chanted his name and clapped that tram off.

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Obviously I didn''t read all that because it''s probably no different to your last thread of pure BS but regardless, fans have been really patient with AN.

As above, having your name sung when you''ve just got relegated is a rarity and if he was a Roeder type character the fans would have easily turned by now.

You''re right about him being intelligent and likeable and it''s probably what''s saved him so far but lose to Derby and it''s probably goodbye AN.

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No No No. Open your eyes.

Alex Neil has run out of chances to put it right. He should resign, for whatever the shortcomings of the players, they are not putting in a shift for him. As soon as that happens it''s curtains for a manager regardless of past glories (see Mourino). Reading between the lines the players have lost respect due to 1. terrible tactics 2. player favouritism 3. Neils lack of high level playing career - respect 4. Poor man management/authoritarianism (doesn''t work with narcissistic players these day) 5. Useless training/assistants. The post-Preston incident says it all to me.

We all wanted Neil to succeed, he seemed an exciting, confident one for the long-term, but it just hasn''t worked out and if we are to turn it round this season or next, the sooner he goes the better.

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So are you saying he has only just lost his confidence in the last 5 games and if we get a lucky win he will be the next Alex Ferguson.

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Played 17 won 8;drawn 3;lost 6

For 29 against 29

7 of our 8 wins have been against the bottom 7

So when did he lose his confidence?

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[quote user="Bagster"]So are you saying he has only just lost his confidence in the last 5 games and if we get a lucky win he will be the next Alex Ferguson.[/quote]

No, I''m saying you see it through the lean times and take a long term view.  Throwing away managers is not the answer, unless they are on the scale of a Roeder or a Gunn.  Success can be measured in different ways - and often, success comes out of adversity.  You can''t measure a manager''s worth until he has reached rock bottom and has to build things up again.  But we''re not rock bottom - we''re still in position for striking for the top of the table once form resumes.  So for me, atm, we stick it out and see through the tough times and see where it takes us - with this manager.

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The players have confidence - the wrong type though! Since the defeat at Newcastle they have confidently expected less-than-desirable events. The players don''t necessarily need to work any harder on the physical side - it''s the individual and collective mindset they bring to their work that matters most. My hunch is they have switched off to AN''s autocratic methodology and with a lack of personal goodwill his delicate house of cards has imploded - hence the outcomes we''ve been seeing lately...

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Have you given any thought yet to tomorrows sermon Lakey ? Personally i can feel a thread about the AGM looming on the horizon. [;)]

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I would be all for having a manager for a long term basis, hell I would be happy if we got rid of the oldies and got a young team and took 3 years to get back to the premiership.

The thing is Alex isn''t showing that at all.

He has been here for two years and spent a lot of money, we basically have a low premiership outfit but we are unable to compete with top half championship teams.

I agree A lex has lost his mojo but in my opinion that was at Newcastle last year, how long do we have to wait for him to find it again.

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Let me just set a few things out here Lakey, hopefully it''ll help.Firstly, and most importantly, we''re not Man Utd, and Alex Neil isn''t Alex Ferguson. Yes, they have the same first name, I know its confusing.We are Norwich City, we do things on a very, very tight budget, and we constantly rely on punching above our weight, and making the most of what we have. With me so far.Our single best opportunity to get promoted back to the land of milk and honey is doing it this season, whilst we have retained a modicum of our Premiership quality (a debate for elsewhere) we have parachute payments to achieve this aim, and we still have the recent Premiership status on our CV to attract players, and more importantly retain the excellent youth we are developing. So, to that end, it is pretty vital that we go up this season, there is no "lets be patient about it" as the Championship is a slow lingering death for clubs of our financial clout.Now I completely advocate the premise of stability as regards to the manager, and I have backed him, but as with so many managers before it means nothing if they can''t motivate the team to get the best out of themselves.I''ll be more than happy to be completely wrong about this, and Saturday will be extremely telling as to what he can motivate the players to do.And lastly, I''m pretty sure you just do this for one moment of glory, one day, when you can say "See, I was right", but you may have to wait a long time.

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You see that''s where I differ with the popular view. I don''t regard the premier league as the be all and end all.  I''m not interested in that.  I''m interested in the people running the club and how they deal with situations that arise.  If we go down and down the table this season under AN, then I would accept that if it meant getting rid of a few of our players who are over expensive and not producing the goods, get the young players in the team and let AN build up again from there, hopefully to challenge for the top of the table again over the next season or two.  And I simply don''t blame the manager for all our problems.  It is more complex than that.  Easy peasy, sack the manager, get another one in, but it doesn''t solve underlying issues in the squad imo. The way forwards is clear to me.  AN relies on the best players in the squad to perform - if they do all well and good, but if they don''t, they have let him down and they will eventually be moved on. We have good young players on the books, their time will come, once the non-performers are gone. It means a rough ride if our top players don''t sort it out, but long term I would rather see us struggle this season and let the squad evolve over time.  The premier league and it''s money can wait - if it has to.  Money isn''t everything, especially when you have a club that is run sustainably, like ours is.

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LDC;

And I simply don''t blame the manager for all our problems. It is more complex than that.

Can you explain please LDC what makes it more complex ? I sort of admire your continual support for everything NCFC related, I guess that comes from living some distance away, and I''m pretty sure that if you were a regular attendee at matches you would see things differently, (and that is not a side swipe because you live further away than most and therefor can only attend a certain amount of games)

The reason so many are turning on the manager is that they keep seeing the same issues that reoccur week after week, and he seems lost. Personally was delighted with the crowds reaction at the Watford game at the end of last season, and that so many anted him to stay, but something is massively missing in the relationship with the manager and some (never all) of our senior players, and that unfortunately lies at his door.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]You see that''s where I differ with the popular view. I don''t regard the premier league as the be all and end all.  I''m not interested in that.  I''m interested in the people running the club and how they deal with situations that arise.  If we go down and down the table this season under AN, then I would accept that if it meant getting rid of a few of our players who are over expensive and not producing the goods, get the young players in the team and let AN build up again from there, hopefully to challenge for the top of the table again over the next season or two. [/quote]
Yeah, which is dandy for you in the Lake District whilst you don''t attend games

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[quote user="lake district canary"]You see that''s where I differ with the popular view. I don''t regard the premier league as the be all and end all.  I''m not interested in that.  I''m interested in the people running the club and how they deal with situations that arise.  If we go down and down the table this season under AN, then I would accept that if it meant getting rid of a few of our players who are over expensive and not producing the goods, get the young players in the team and let AN build up again from there, hopefully to challenge for the top of the table again over the next season or two.  And I simply don''t blame the manager for all our problems.  It is more complex than that.  Easy peasy, sack the manager, get another one in, but it doesn''t solve underlying issues in the squad imo. The way forwards is clear to me.  AN relies on the best players in the squad to perform - if they do all well and good, but if they don''t, they have let him down and they will eventually be moved on. We have good young players on the books, their time will come, once the non-performers are gone. It means a rough ride if our top players don''t sort it out, but long term I would rather see us struggle this season and let the squad evolve over time.  The premier league and it''s money can wait - if it has to.  Money isn''t everything, especially when you have a club that is run sustainably, like ours is.

[/quote]It is only run sustainably up to a point. How much debt did we have last time we got promoted?Have a think about where we would have been had we not got lucky with Lambert?Read back what you posted above, Alex Neil is not getting the best out of what we have, the best players in the squad are not playing to the best of their ability, we are not winning games.If you''re not moving forward then you''re standing still. And frankly right now we''re moving backwards. Even if it is a dead cat bounce that restores players confidence, its a step in the right direction.Seriously for a look at what vegetating in this division looks like, you only need to look down the road in Suffolk.

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And further to the point of "money not mattering" how do you think we set up our category one academy? Did we pay for it with smarties?The days of a few fans throwing money in blankets being enough to get by on, are long gone.

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I must say I have a sneaking admiration in you holding your corner LDC and rightly or wrongly I don''t think you take the contrary view just to wind people up. If you do then you''re doing a great job.Someone made a point on this thread that not attending matches warps your view. I believe that''s true. I''m not having a dig as I suspect you would love to see more games but it is pretty worrying watching City '' live '' at the moment. I think if you did go to as many games as a lot on here do you wouldn''t be quite so accommodating.One crucial difference with the current spell of unrest over AN is that the local hacks have surprisingly all given him the thumbs down. Quite why this time they''ve all climbed off the fence is a mystery but I can''t see it helping his cause.We all wanted him to succeed but sadly AN''s time is now up.

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What complete and utter dross LDC. Were you there Saturday? Before you point the finger at Olsson, watch it again and tell me that Bassong and Bennett, who both failed to deal with a long throw, were not culpable.

AN has not proved himself at all, yes he won one Wembley final, as have hundreds of other managers, but you seem to forget that he has a relegation to his CV, and absolutely pathetic results connected to his coaching this season, in a lower league, with a very talented squad. Just a consistent brand of good football is what I would like to see, and I''m afraid that isn''t being delivered. Yes there is a lack of confidence in the players, I would suggest by the players, not just the paying public. Read today''s football writers comments in today''s Eastern Daily Press sports pages, particularly those of Iwan Roberts! Then perhaps you will understand how farcical your post is!

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The point about sustainablity is that having got ourselves into a good financial position - is that we can keep it like that, if we are sensible.  Swapping managers every time things get difficult does not make sense.  I understand all the points that have been put and I do understand the issues of how things must seem, given the performances and issues this season - but the overall point is one of faith.  I had faith in Hughton largely because I thought that given long enough, he would turn it round and be the manager we can see he is today.  But he ran out of rope in the end and there was an inevitabity in the end that he would get sacked.  But I stll think that if the board had held firm and kept him on, he would have been a good manager for us at this level - it was never going to happen, of course. As for AN, I see a manager who has lost some of his focus, lost a bit of confidence in his players and who is having to deal with some strong willed players who maybe aren''t as focussed as they should be. We are in the championship, not at the bottom of the premier league and if he can get the senior players to perform as they should, all is good, but if not, we can rebuild, using the less pressurised situation that the championship presents. Fans want it all and they want it now - nothing wrong with that in itself, but the reality is that there is more to it than just being at the top of the league.  The issues surrounding success and the long term well being of the club are much deeper.

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[quote user="Lessingham Canary"]LDC;

And I simply don''t blame the manager for all our problems. It is more complex than that.

Can you explain please LDC what makes it more complex ? I sort of admire your continual support for everything NCFC related, I guess that comes from living some distance away, and I''m pretty sure that if you were a regular attendee at matches you would see things differently, (and that is not a side swipe because you live further away than most and therefor can only attend a certain amount of games)

The reason so many are turning on the manager is that they keep seeing the same issues that reoccur week after week, and he seems lost. Personally was delighted with the crowds reaction at the Watford game at the end of last season, and that so many anted him to stay, but something is massively missing in the relationship with the manager and some (never all) of our senior players, and that unfortunately lies at his door.[/quote]

I can''t disagree with most of this. The senior players seem to have downed tools and have lost all respect for him. Players like Bassong, Olsson, Klose, Brady, Ruddy and Tettey are shadows of their former selves at the moment and I''d even add Wes and Naismith to that group - experienced players who just don''t believe in the shouty, aggressive management style, nearing on bullying. The younger players sort of respond to it as they''ll do as they''re told if it means getting in the team, but the older ones can see through it.

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As they said on ''Monday night football'' when a goal is let in, the first thing to look at is accountability. At that point I thought what happens when it''s a different (Norwich) player for every goal let in ? 

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