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Rudolph Hucker

The Manager or the Players - make a choice?

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These things happen over time but out of interest assume they could be done short term.

You have a choice of options:

1) Replace Alex Neil and his coaching team.

2) Replace at least four first team players who have been regulars under AN.

It is basically the question of who is at fault for our current situation. A manager you consider incapable of getting the best from his players or a bunch of players who are unmanageable or inadequate.

And....you can''t say both because the Board will either back Neil and bring in fresh players or sack him and get in someone else to work with what we''ve got.

Personally, I think we have an imbalanced squad still but it is good enough for promotion and managers are more readily available than players. And if we keep Neil then our best players will want away anyway.

Morty. Please give others a chance to reply first :-)

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I think we should have cleared out more players after relegation.Alex Neil isn''t the one watching defenders running past him....

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[quote user="morty"]I think we should have cleared out more players after relegation.Alex Neil isn''t the one watching defenders running past him....[/quote]
He''s watching a back four he picked though and had two summer transfer windows to shape and organise.

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[quote user="Ginja"][quote user="morty"]I think we should have cleared out more players after relegation.Alex Neil isn''t the one watching defenders running past him....[/quote]
He''s watching a back four he picked though and had two summer transfer windows to shape and organise.
[/quote]Well we have played them all in the last few weeks, and it appears they are much of a muchness.

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[quote user="morty"]I think we should have cleared out more players after relegation.Alex Neil isn''t the one watching defenders running past him....[/quote]

Alex Neil has seen them being run past for two years. Recruitment has been poor.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"][quote user="morty"]I think we should have cleared out more players after relegation.Alex Neil isn''t the one watching defenders running past him....[/quote]

Alex Neil has seen them being run past for two years. Recruitment has been poor.[/quote]Yes it has.Has he been in charge of it all?

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Klose and Pinto which im sure you are aware of.

We failed to patch up, upon our return to the Prem, a previously unsuccessful defence.

A defence that was then used again on Saturday. Klose came in too late and again this season, we failed to invest in a decent CB, which is now biting us.

Hes now been in charge nearly two years, he has had time to improve the unit, especially with the funds he has had.

After every game we hear he is disappointing at conceding a sloppy goal, as we have been working on it all week in training....

It concerns me that the players he did inherit, havent been developed into better players.

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[quote user="morty"]On that note, which of our current defenders did Alex Neil buy?[/quote]
Good point, only two? Why hasn''t he bought more? Why do we still have Bassong/Whittaker/Martin/Turner in the squad? We should have been steadily replacing these players, not all of it is AN''s fault but he has to take some of the responsibility.

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[quote user="Ginja"][quote user="morty"]On that note, which of our current defenders did Alex Neil buy?[/quote]
Good point, only two? Why hasn''t he bought more? Why do we still have Bassong/Whittaker/Martin/Turner in the squad? We should have been steadily replacing these players, not all of it is AN''s fault but he has to take some of the responsibility.
[/quote]

Same as what i have basically said.

Prepare to be facilitated......

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]Klose and Pinto which im sure you are aware of.

We failed to patch up, upon our return to the Prem, a previously unsuccessful defence.

A defence that was then used again on Saturday. Klose came in too late and again this season, we failed to invest in a decent CB, which is now biting us.

Hes now been in charge nearly two years, he has had time to improve the unit, especially with the funds he has had.

After every game we hear he is disappointing at conceding a sloppy goal, as we have been working on it all week in training....

It concerns me that the players he did inherit, havent been developed into better players.[/quote]I wasn''t trying to make any kind of point, I just couldn''t be bothered looking it up.Really Turner, Bassong and Martin should have been replaced, we have too many bang average players in the defence. You couls add Bennett to that list too.I have no idea why they haven''t been replaced, whether its down to the manager, the scouts, or the board who gave them contracts.

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Buck always stops with the manager in football.

Look at Villa. Defence was dreadful before Bruce, now they are unbeatable.

Same as Sunderland pre-Allardyce. Kaboul and Kone looked as much as a pair of clowns as our CBs, but with the right manager and someone they are motivated by, they were a rock at the end of last season.

Same with us, if you get the right man in (Allardyce or Rowett IMO) I believe we''ll be a completely different proposition. Players like Timm Klose don''t become bad players overnight (or over the space of months as is our decline).

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[quote user="morty"]I think we should have cleared out more players after relegation.

[/quote]I think we should have cleared out more players after promotion. That was the time to do it.We had 4, 5 or 6 players who had either failed in the PL before and/or were never going to get a game.The fact that they got us promoted should not have been a factor for keeping them and keeping them after relegation just made things even worse.We have simply not been ruthless enough in clearing out some of the deadwood.And in answer to the original question, it has to be both for me.

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[quote user="Ginja"][quote user="morty"]On that note, which of our current defenders did Alex Neil buy?[/quote]
Good point, only two? Why hasn''t he bought more? Why do we still have Bassong/Whittaker/Martin/Turner in the squad? We should have been steadily replacing these players, not all of it is AN''s fault but he has to take some of the responsibility.
[/quote]Because they didn''t get better offers to go elsewhere. This "we need to clear out the squad" argument is tedious. The only way we could get players like Turner to leave is to pay up their contract, in effect giving them their wages till the end of the contract now to go early. And even then they might be missing out on bonuses, like living in the area, think our facilities and training are better than they''re likely to get if they do leave and so on and refuse to go. If it''s a case of giving someone £100K to go now, or paying them £100K for the year left on their contract to stay in the squad, aren''t we better off hanging on to them? We might get a loan offer, or have a spate of injuries, and even if not, we''re no worse off - other than having to read the same thing about them repeated ad nauseam on this board.

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[quote user="Nuff Said"][quote user="Ginja"][quote user="morty"]On that note, which of our current defenders did Alex Neil buy?[/quote]
Good point, only two? Why hasn''t he bought more? Why do we still have Bassong/Whittaker/Martin/Turner in the squad? We should have been steadily replacing these players, not all of it is AN''s fault but he has to take some of the responsibility.
[/quote]Because they didn''t get better offers to go elsewhere. This "we need to clear out the squad" argument is tedious. The only way we could get players like Turner to leave is to pay up their contract, in effect giving them their wages till the end of the contract now to go early. And even then they might be missing out on bonuses, like living in the area, think our facilities and training are better than they''re likely to get if they do leave and so on and refuse to go. If it''s a case of giving someone £100K to go now, or paying them £100K for the year left on their contract to stay in the squad, aren''t we better off hanging on to them? We might get a loan offer, or have a spate of injuries, and even if not, we''re no worse off - other than having to read the same thing about them repeated ad nauseam on this board.[/quote]Its only theoretical, everybody knows it isn''t a reality that we just get shot of them.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Nuff Said"][quote user="Ginja"][quote user="morty"]On that note, which of our current defenders did Alex Neil buy?[/quote]
Good point, only two? Why hasn''t he bought more? Why do we still have Bassong/Whittaker/Martin/Turner in the squad? We should have been steadily replacing these players, not all of it is AN''s fault but he has to take some of the responsibility.
[/quote]Because they didn''t get better offers to go elsewhere. This "we need to clear out the squad" argument is tedious. The only way we could get players like Turner to leave is to pay up their contract, in effect giving them their wages till the end of the contract now to go early. And even then they might be missing out on bonuses, like living in the area, think our facilities and training are better than they''re likely to get if they do leave and so on and refuse to go. If it''s a case of giving someone £100K to go now, or paying them £100K for the year left on their contract to stay in the squad, aren''t we better off hanging on to them? We might get a loan offer, or have a spate of injuries, and even if not, we''re no worse off - other than having to read the same thing about them repeated ad nauseam on this board.[/quote]Its only theoretical, everybody knows it isn''t a reality that we just get shot of them.[/quote]Shooting them seems a bit extreme?

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[quote user="Nuff Said"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Nuff Said"][quote user="Ginja"][quote user="morty"]On that note, which of our current defenders did Alex Neil buy?[/quote]
Good point, only two? Why hasn''t he bought more? Why do we still have Bassong/Whittaker/Martin/Turner in the squad? We should have been steadily replacing these players, not all of it is AN''s fault but he has to take some of the responsibility.
[/quote]Because they didn''t get better offers to go elsewhere. This "we need to clear out the squad" argument is tedious. The only way we could get players like Turner to leave is to pay up their contract, in effect giving them their wages till the end of the contract now to go early. And even then they might be missing out on bonuses, like living in the area, think our facilities and training are better than they''re likely to get if they do leave and so on and refuse to go. If it''s a case of giving someone £100K to go now, or paying them £100K for the year left on their contract to stay in the squad, aren''t we better off hanging on to them? We might get a loan offer, or have a spate of injuries, and even if not, we''re no worse off - other than having to read the same thing about them repeated ad nauseam on this board.[/quote]Its only theoretical, everybody knows it isn''t a reality that we just get shot of them.[/quote]Shooting them seems a bit extreme?[/quote]Get back to me on that, about 4:45 on Saturday....

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