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morty

Theoretical scenario.

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Always happy to see us win but it will take a prolonged period of good results and more importantly good performances to convince me that Neil has turned things around and is capable of remaining as manager. I''m not talking about the sort of run we had earlier in the season because it was obvious there was trouble ahead, i''m talking about composed, committee victories where we defend properly and play well.

I don''t actually think he should still be in charge at the weekend (nor do I want him to be) but it looks as though he will be so winning at Derby would be a good start but he would still have a long way to go.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Its Character Forming"]

I''ll be there.  For me...

 

If we play badly and lose or draw, I will still think AN needs to go.

 

If we put in a really good performance, with the players looking committed and organised, and get a win, then I will be delighted and I will hope it shows AN can turn it around - although one game would only be the start.

 

If we play badly and are lucky to sneak a win, I''ll be glad because I always want City to win, but I''ll have mixed feelings because I will still think AN needs to go.

 

Never happy to see City lose.  But I do wonder if we''re at one of those "First Wiz" points when getting rid of the manager is more important than a single result.  He''s had plenty of time to turn it around, with no sign of improvement.

[/quote]I don''t disagree with much of that, but on the last point, I take a step back and think about the fact it was only a month ago we were top of the league and Alex was manager of the month, and I start to consider, is there a certain amount of overreaction happening?You could look at in the context of we got relegated, thats done, it happened, its put in a box. Just in the context, of what is happening this season, I think there could be shades of self entitlement.[/quote]

No because when we were top of the league we were still playing sh*t. We scraped most of those wins against poor sides.

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Yes because people have eyes and can see what is happening on the pitch. Its perfectly possible to be happy with the teams league position but unhappy with the quality of the teams performances and worried (with justification as it has transpired) that if the quality of those performances did not improve we would start losing games and dropping points.

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It''s good that some are so organised as to get their moaning in, at the prospect of something that hadn''t happened at that point.

😁

Oh and to save you a post "WE SAW IT COMING, WE TOLD YOU SO"

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[quote user="morty"]It''s good that some are so organised as to get their moaning in, at the prospect of something that hadn''t happened at that point.

😁

Oh and to save you a post "WE SAW IT COMING, WE TOLD YOU SO"[/quote]

I don''t know what your job is Morty but I can only assume you have found one that doesn''t require any strategic planning, foresight or risk management given your stance on these matters.

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The guy''s future shouldn''t be based on the result of one game this weekend. That''s no more sensible a way of deciding than LCD''s view that we should stick with him regardless and he''ll come good eventually.

The decision needs to be made over a period of time, assessing a number of long term things.

Has he has over or under achieved with the squad he has available?

Have transfers developed the squad in a coherent and beneficial way?

Have we bought and sold well and achieved value for money?

Have we addressed our weaknesses, through purchases, better organisation or tactics?

Has his in game management been good value (substitutions, change of tactics)?

Are the players showing full commitment every week?

There has been plenty of time to judge. He should be gone, win lose or draw this one game.

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[quote user="Tumbleweed"]The danger is that we fall into the Hughton situation where every so often he would eke out a win, seemingly giving him more time. The Derby result would need to be looked at in the context of results over an extended period. The Board should, in my mind, pick a date and say- by that time how over the past 12 months or so have we progressed? It is too easy to pick up on one good result and say all is fine. Just as easy to pick one bad result and think it is gloomy.

By the end of November, looking over that extended period, what has the trend been? If you conclude that a change is needed then go and do it and give a new guy a month to be found and assess January transfer needs. If you conclude its OK then pick a new date, say the end of Feb, and stick with it until then when you make the same assessment. Lurching from game to game is not, to me, a strategy.[/quote]Neil has lost 28 from 55 league games which goes back to the beginning of last season.Going from a bad run at the start of October last year it''s 26 losses from 48.He has clearly failed because he''s losing over half his games no matter where you start counting from inside a 9-15 month period.

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morty wrote the following post at 2016-11-23 2:49 PM:

We win on Saturday.

Whats your plan?

Be happy that we have won, and maybe making steps to recovery? A begrudging harumph, then predict Derby were on the beach?

Is there any way back for Alex Neil for those of you that have the noose around his neck?

Is there a way back for AN - well he hasn''t gone yet Morty, so does he need a way back? Just as he has lost the last four+, he could win the next 4+. I for one would be very pleased should the teams he picks do just that, but I don''t see it happening. He promised changes v Leeds and we didn''t get them. He changed it v QPR and nothing changed at all from the previous weeks and months of dross. I think your question belongs with the players, and for him to forge a way back into the hearts of supporters lies maybe with the U23 group.........!

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[quote user="morty"]It''s good that some are so organised as to get their moaning in, at the prospect of something that hadn''t happened at that point.

😁

Oh and to save you a post "WE SAW IT COMING, WE TOLD YOU SO"[/quote]I think it''s agreed that Jim isn''t the most optimistic poster on the planet but he''s bang on the money here Morty.With the exception of perhaps three games - Bristol City (H) and Forest and Wolves (A) - we''ve looked very ordinary. No one''s expecting us to hammer everyone week-in week-out Newcastle style but we haven''t been very good.Maybe we''ve been found out because we''ve come up against better opposition but we''ve been playing like an accident waiting to happen almost all season.

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="morty"]It''s good that some are so organised as to get their moaning in, at the prospect of something that hadn''t happened at that point.

😁

Oh and to save you a post "WE SAW IT COMING, WE TOLD YOU SO"[/quote]I think it''s agreed that Jim isn''t the most optimistic poster on the planet but he''s bang on the money here Morty.With the exception of perhaps three games - Bristol City (H) and Forest and Wolves (A) - we''ve looked very ordinary. No one''s expecting us to hammer everyone week-in week-out Newcastle style but we haven''t been very good.Maybe we''ve been found out because we''ve come up against better opposition but we''ve been playing like an accident waiting to happen almost all season.[/quote]Thats the point though, some genuinely are.What do you think fans of other teams thought about our fans, moaning when we were top of the league?

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I''d be very happy to beat a Derby, or any other team. I''ve never been convinced or seen anything in AN to see why so many think he''ll be a great manager! His tactical awareness is poor and his man management must be in question given there''s discourse in the dressing room, as said by Martin a few weeks ago. Not to mention the millions wasted on players not used.

Here''s one hypothetical question for you Morty, if we don''t go up, they stick with AN and we get relegated, will you blame the board?

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[quote user="Indy"]I''d be very happy to beat a Derby, or any other team. I''ve never been convinced or seen anything in AN to see why so many think he''ll be a great manager! His tactical awareness is poor and his man management must be in question given there''s discourse in the dressing room, as said by Martin a few weeks ago. Not to mention the millions wasted on players not used.

Here''s one hypothetical question for you Morty, if we don''t go up, they stick with AN and we get relegated, will you blame the board?[/quote]Relegated to league 1?Bloody hell Indy....

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I don''t think it''ll happen, but say they stick to their plan of AN long term, fail to gain promotion then next season realignment for championship in players...we could go down, many teams have!

Would you put the blame on the board or AN?

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[quote user="Indy"]I don''t think it''ll happen, but say they stick to their plan of AN long term, fail to gain promotion then next season realignment for championship in players...we could go down, many teams have!

Would you put the blame on the board or AN?[/quote]I''ll worry about it, if it happens lol.

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See now you asked us a hypothetical question which we answer yet you swerve this one, you''ve been trained by Nutty! :-)

Fair enough, I''ll be very pleased as I always am to get a win. You going to a Derby matey?

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[quote user="Indy"]See now you asked us a hypothetical question which we answer yet you swerve this one, you''ve been trained by Nutty! :-)

Fair enough, I''ll be very pleased as I always am to get a win. You going to a Derby matey?[/quote]I would blame the board I guess, but I do see where they are coming from regarding long term appointments. I dare say the players would have to shoulder some blame too...

Yes I am, looking forward to it too. Honest....

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I''d be happy to join you Saturday, my afternoon is destined to visit the Christmas market at Bury, the wife''s made plans! I hate Christmas markets........

I hope AN has the courage to go with the youngsters who are on form, they are hungry to prove something, they might just get that win!

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[quote user="Indy"]I''d be happy to join you Saturday, my afternoon is destined to visit the Christmas market at Bury, the wife''s made plans! I hate Christmas markets........

I hope AN has the courage to go with the youngsters who are on form, they are hungry to prove something, they might just get that win![/quote]A Christmas market, bloody hell.I hope we win, as I always do.But I hope we win more to throw the people who are baying for his blood, into utter confused turmoil.

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It''ll take a lot for AN to convince me Morty, but I have t changed my tune since his appointment, he did well enough to get us up and deserved big credit for Wembley win, but that was his last real good win IMO, after that he has become a one dimensional manager without knowledge to turn things around, that''s what Lambert had, nouse!

Still I''m always hoping for a win, it makes my day when we win......

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No Nutty, responding with I''ll worry about it if it happens isn''t answering the hypothetical question......

Yes responding with a different swerve is!

Still Morty did respond with an answer, which I''m pleased he did, even if it would be different to my opinion.

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Nutty nigel sounding like a politician....thinks....noway it couldn''t be.....nutty have you just returned from the usa :)

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Marty if you can get into your head the concept that most fans want the best for the club and stop being such a self righteous t*t about your views and anyone that opposes them, then this board will be a million times better.

And the blindingly obvious answer to your question is that if we win then that''s a great step in the right direction and if Neil can turn it around the next im sure the vas majority are more than happy to eat humble pie. You see, most people care more about the state of the club rather than their opinions being proven right.

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