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hogesar

Match report whilst fresh in mind!

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The players certainly haven''t thrown the towel in, although that doesn''t necessarily mean they''re doing it for the manager, alot of these players probably feel they should be in the prem and I think Naismiths leadership is probably required in the team right now as no one else seems willing to take up the role.

The problem I have is we barely created anything in the first half, nor in the second. Yet Alex Neil felt, as usual, the best thing to do was keep the same formation and basically same players and uhh...cross fingers.

If a manager is going to turn around such a terrible run of results they have to be brave enough to consider changing things. Even if you want to stick to your preferred formation to begin with you have to be willing to do something different when it''s clear you''re creating naff all.

I''m sure Brentford will probably be ANs last game, which is a real shame

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The players showed marginally more commitment yesterday than appeared to be the case at either Brighton or QPR but there were periods, especially, in the second half where it was easy to feel they were going through the motions. It''s clear that Neil can''t get a tune out of them - as he has been unable to for a year now - perhaps this is evidence of value-reducing half time team talks? Make no mistake we are gradually falling into the relegation scrap - 9 points from the relegation zone but 13 points behind Newcastle. But we should clap we have no external debt except the 7.5m predicted overdraft by the end of the season. You couldn''t make it up.

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Thoughts on the game - The players were very disappointed to lose, they still support the manager. We were the better side in the first half but with no penetration, it''s too easy for a player to pass the ball sideways or back which most of our players did.  Hoolahan used to be the man to play forward with a penetrating pass but now he''s following the rest, sideways and backwards. Brought my youngest daughter to this match as she''s my lucky charm (never seen Norwich lose) but even that could not beat the power that is Super Bradley Johnson and Simon Hooper, we should have had a penalty.  Note about Bradley Johnson - he plays a very deep role for Derby which I feel is a bit of a waste He did not celebrate his goal and at the end he went over and applauded the Norwich fans.   

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Thanks for the match reports. Regarding the point scoring guff , only a strong performance and a win is relevant at this stage. The players appear to be "playing for the manager". They are still not playing well enough to get any points.

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[quote user="bristolcanary"]only a strong performance and a win is relevant at this stage.[/quote]But having got in a rut of losing, the issue has to be one of gradual improvement and a return to confidence, even if the points are not there yet. The signs are encouraging that they are doing a bit better, so with a bit of luck that will translate into at least a draw next week and hopefully a win and we can set off on another good run. 

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after another defeat it is only HOPE that makes us cling to a small improvement in effort.

The hope is only worth anything if the players are determined to build upon it and get something next week.

Yes its encouraging but this defeat has only increased the pressure for Saturday. Time for some squad cojones cultivation

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[quote user="ZLF"]after another defeat it is only HOPE that makes us cling to a small improvement in effort.

The hope is only worth anything if the players are determined to build upon it and get something next week.

Yes its encouraging but this defeat has only increased the pressure for Saturday. Time for some squad cojones cultivation[/quote]I think we''ll win next week, which could leave some folks in a bit of a quandary.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="ZLF"]after another defeat it is only HOPE that makes us cling to a small improvement in effort.

The hope is only worth anything if the players are determined to build upon it and get something next week.

Yes its encouraging but this defeat has only increased the pressure for Saturday. Time for some squad cojones cultivation[/quote]I think we''ll win next week, which could leave some folks in a bit of a quandary.[/quote]

And if we lose again, do will still give him more time to turn it around?

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[quote user="Alfie54"][quote user="morty"][quote user="ZLF"]after another defeat it is only HOPE that makes us cling to a small improvement in effort.

The hope is only worth anything if the players are determined to build upon it and get something next week.

Yes its encouraging but this defeat has only increased the pressure for Saturday. Time for some squad cojones cultivation[/quote]I think we''ll win next week, which could leave some folks in a bit of a quandary.[/quote]

And if we lose again, do will still give him more time to turn it around?[/quote]It depends on the fans, and the players reaction.But I think we''ll win.

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I''m sure Brentford will probably be ANs last game, which is a real shame

It''s a shame that we haven''t acted before now

It was clear as he took us down last year he wasn''t willing to change much, he''s doing exactly the same again, it''s why he''s replicating another terrible run, this time at an inferior level

He''s useless

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[quote user="Mickdundee"]I''m sure Brentford will probably be ANs last game, which is a real shame

It''s a shame that we haven''t acted before now

It was clear as he took us down last year he wasn''t willing to change much, he''s doing exactly the same again, it''s why he''s replicating another terrible run, this time at an inferior level

He''s useless[/quote]Difficult to consider changing much when you win 7 out of 8 games and are on a great run, even if there are underlying issues.  Since then we''ve had four away games and only two home games and injures to key players.  I''m not pretending everything in the garden is rosy, but as always there are mitigating circumstances.   Brighton was the lowest point and turning point - we have started to show signs of improvement and as that continues, the wins will come again. 

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We are eleven points off automatic Lakey and dropping down the league. Football IS a results based sport and we need results.

If we win on Saturday and win well confidence may return.

If we employ the same tactics and lose , I can''t see how he can remain in post.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Alfie54"][quote user="morty"][quote user="ZLF"]after another defeat it is only HOPE that makes us cling to a small improvement in effort.

The hope is only worth anything if the players are determined to build upon it and get something next week.

Yes its encouraging but this defeat has only increased the pressure for Saturday. Time for some squad cojones cultivation[/quote]I think we''ll win next week, which could leave some folks in a bit of a quandary.[/quote]

And if we lose again, do will still give him more time to turn it around?[/quote]It depends on the fans, and the players reaction.But I think we''ll win.[/quote]I hope you''re right Morty, it would be nice to leave a ground with a bit of hope again.Even if we lose against Brentford the Board will snuggle down in the bunker and he''ll take the team to Barnsley. Now if ever there was a whipping boy it''s them. Nine wins and one draw for us over the last ten meetings.If we fail to win there it really must by time to say bye-bye.

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Thanks for your thoughts on the match Hogesar. Ricardo''s away days are pretty much over so it''s nice to get a picture of how someone at the match saw it. Listening on the radio I thought the fans were excellent in the first half but faded away 2nd half just like the team.Brentford should be interesting....

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."]Thanks for your thoughts on the match Hogesar. Ricardo''s away days are pretty much over so it''s nice to get a picture of how someone at the match saw it. Listening on the radio I thought the fans were excellent in the first half but faded away 2nd half just like the team.Brentford should be interesting....[/quote]The fans were excellent for pretty much the whole game.Really good atmosphere actually.

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No problem ASMS.

Yeah fans were good all game to be fair but it did quieten when it was clear we weren''t going to get anything from the game!

As to Brentford, an unconvincing win wouldn''t do anything towards AN case but it would be a much needed result to end the rut we''re in. Can''t help but feel it''d be less of turning a corner and more of a saving AN for a few more games but not helping us in the overall picture.

Let''s hope im completely wrong, of course.

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If this goes game by game it will be a long drawn out saga the same as when Hughton went. The club was pushed into a corner and then made the wrong decision too late.

I would hope we have learned this. Sees to play out as a well thought through strategy by the board and not a knee jerk reaction to individual results.

In truth the board has spelt out its strategy which appears to be keep AN at all costs.

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I am not sure it is arrogance, more that it was too little too late at the time. The run in was horrible and we knew that the those games were coming.

If the board want to stick with AN whatever and stick to a strategy so be it. If not I hope that they act before Xmas.

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So it would have worked earlier. The earlier being determined by when each person first suggested it. Which is somewhere between Newcastle last season and yesterday.

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You can''t say it would have worked but anyone can see it might''ve. The benefit of hindsight is it couldn''t have been worse as we were relegated regardless.

The question is when did Alex Neil last get the best out of these players? That''s to say, make them look better than the sum of their parts. For all my somewhat stubborn defence of AN until recently, I can only really think of either Chelsea at home where we narrowly lost or man United away when we won. That''s quite a while ago!

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After watching the highlights and listening to the game yesterday, no doubt there was more effort even Naismith looks like he actually earned his salary for the day, yet we still never looked or sounded like we would win!

There''s something which needs to change, for me it''s AN and Irvine who appear below the standard required to develop the players they have bought in to play their system.

It''s very concerning to see 60 million worth of players being beaten six games on the bounce in this league!

It''s good that the fans stayed with them but how much of that was down to thinking it was going to be another 3-0 loss or worse and coming away with a narrow loss? Should we repeal your be losing to Derby if we are genuinely the second best squad?

Look at Bruce and Villa, a good manager with respect gets more out players, simple respect has to be earned and AN doesn''t warrant it from this squad with huge egos.

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[quote user="Indy"]After watching the highlights and listening to the game yesterday, no doubt there was more effort even Naismith looks like he actually earned his salary for the day, yet we still never looked or sounded like we would win!

There''s something which needs to change, for me it''s AN and Irvine who appear below the standard required to develop the players they have bought in to play their system.

It''s very concerning to see 60 million worth of players being beaten six games on the bounce in this league!

It''s good that the fans stayed with them but how much of that was down to thinking it was going to be another 3-0 loss or worse and coming away with a narrow loss? Should we repeal your be losing to Derby if we are genuinely the second best squad?

Look at Bruce and Villa, a good manager with respect gets more out players, simple respect has to be earned and AN doesn''t warrant it from this squad with huge egos.[/quote]It happens though, look at Leicester this season.Aye, Naismith looked pretty good yesterday, he links up well with Hoolahan, very much on his wavelength.Why try and second guess why fans supported their team, they did, which is the entirely correct thing to do.

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I''m not second guessing at all just making a statement, had we lost 3-0 I''m sure there wouldn''t have been too many staying with the team!

Making a point that 6 losses on the bounce is not acceptable, Morty.

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[quote user="Indy"]I''m not second guessing at all just making a statement, had we lost 3-0 I''m sure there wouldn''t have been too many staying with the team!

Making a point that 6 losses on the bounce is not acceptable, Morty.[/quote]And I''m making the point that I have been to the last two away games, and maybe there isn''t the fan unrest that is suggested on here sometimes.

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[quote user="Indy"]Who said anything about unrest?[/quote]Its implied, and not only by you.I find the mood of actual fans who go to games, and the mood on here, quite a contrast.

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No I''ve never implied that, I''m implying as you said pre Saturday that you''re expectations were lowered, as the great travelling fans we have, might be the same.

Still I''m not suprised that some people feel unrest, rightly so but that''s up to each person to come out and say not for me to imply on others, come on Morty I''m not implying that at all!

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