unique 435 Posted November 27, 2016 The current squad of players is so far removed from a fully functional, competitive PL squad that promotion this season would be absolutely futile.Allied to this, the club has proved time and again its inability to spend money wisely or put into place a scouting network that is fit for purpose. The current setup does not lend itself to the club stabilising itself in the PL.It looks very much that the club will be finding itself at the start of another 7-year plan with a mass cull of the current crop, and a gamble on the promising youngsters that are carrying no scars or baggage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 5,511 Posted November 27, 2016 I''ve thought much the same recently. I''ve taken virtually no interest in the Prem this year aside from looking at positions and the usual soap opera stories. Not seen MOTD once. And the same kind of teams struggle against either the elite top 6 or 7 as well as the established toughened mid-tablers. I end up feeling either sorry or dismissive about the strugglers...because it''s all far too boring and predictable. It is fun trying to achieve something and get there but once the new season starts I get increasingly bored. We have never been able to compete in terms of really big bucks there after all, and not having the type of investors that others do, we will always struggle ( occasionally illuminated by a mid table season a la Lambert and Hughton). We also don''t seem to recruit very well.We won''t go up this year it is abundantly clear. That''s not me being dramatic just realistic. It is looking like a mid table finish. Now then, once you get into the grieving process (because your expectations were higher because of the start we have had and all of the potential promise) and accept it all, it becomes more palatable. I have been vocal in calling for change recently but now need to pull my neck in. Whatever happens, happens. It''s clear too what the board have said. Alex looks safe. So all we can do is hope for change in fortunes. If we did threaten to get closer to the Prem, we are so far from being a team that would be able to compete. Bournemouth, even Boro being an examples of teams on the way up with hungry, motivated players. We are on a kind of decline. We can all see it. The Neil era and the current board are overseeing this change. As the football press are calling it, something is a bit rotten. One great positive could be the investment in younger players. If we can keep a core we could see good times again in a year or two. Good OP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Move Klose 303 Posted November 27, 2016 Maybe not getting promoted isnt the end of the world. This squad needs a massive overhaul. I mean massive. Needs building up again.Get rid of the high earners whose contracts are to run out in summer of 2017. Sell the players who don''t wanna be there Klose, Brady etc & the fringe players who are earning alot Jarvis, Naismith etc.Needs a manager who is happy to build a squad around this group of talented young players. Matthews, Toffolo, Godfrey, Thompson, Murphys, Canos, Maddison, Pritchard, Morris.A manager who can find gems in the championship and lower, like the days of Crofts, Plikington, Morison etc. Players who have something to prove and want to fight and work hard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Shuck 183 Posted November 27, 2016 Move Klose, couldn''t agree more... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny Stump 1 Posted November 27, 2016 It''s the eternal question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chesney Hawkes 0 Posted November 27, 2016 What''s the use of getting sober when you''re only going to get drunk again? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GPs Beard 0 Posted November 27, 2016 To enable us to be competitive when we are in the Championship . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
93vintage 16 Posted November 27, 2016 [quote user="Move Klose"]Maybe not getting promoted isnt the end of the world. This squad needs a massive overhaul. I mean massive. Needs building up again.Get rid of the high earners whose contracts are to run out in summer of 2017. Sell the players who don''t wanna be there Klose, Brady etc & the fringe players who are earning alot Jarvis, Naismith etc.Needs a manager who is happy to build a squad around this group of talented young players. Matthews, Toffolo, Godfrey, Thompson, Murphys, Canos, Maddison, Pritchard, Morris.A manager who can find gems in the championship and lower, like the days of Crofts, Plikington, Morison etc. Players who have something to prove and want to fight and work hard.[/quote]That''s pretty much what I''ve said in the recent past. We''ve usually done well at polishing rough diamonds, as opposed to buying expensive sparkling ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Move Klose 303 Posted November 27, 2016 We want more Grant Holts & Wes Hoolahans and less Seb Bassongs & Steven Naismiths. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,658 Posted November 27, 2016 Sorry not buying this.We''re in a bad run of form but all of a sudden after years of craving for proven good players we want to get rid of them all and start with Andrew fcking crofts.Look, I get the nostalgic crave. But the poster said less Seb Bassongs above me. Eh? Part of our highest prem finish and a key part in getting promoted again when recalled from Watford.We have good international players in Wes, Brady etc. Do we just want to rid the squad of all quality because they''re high earners or apparently don''t care?I''m all for promoting youth where possible but in terms of just buying run of the mill players and hoping they turn into world beaters is a false economy. Lambert done it but it''s not the norm.I''m sure Ipswich have had a lot of committed players over the last 15 years but they''ve been devoid of quality and have spent the entire time in this bloody league we''re all desperate to get out of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Canary 118 Posted November 27, 2016 The main people to benefit would be players and agents whilst the club would ask the season ticket holders to bung an extra £10 or £20 to the academy whilst ordinary players become millionaires. It would suit me if sky went bust and the gravy trained ended. From a club point of view ot would buy another season of financial stability and the hope that we may make some astute signings as opposed to dross Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
93vintage 16 Posted November 27, 2016 [quote user="hogesar"]Sorry not buying this.We''re in a bad run of form but all of a sudden after years of craving for proven good players we want to get rid of them all and start with Andrew fcking crofts.Look, I get the nostalgic crave. But the poster said less Seb Bassongs above me. Eh? Part of our highest prem finish and a key part in getting promoted again when recalled from Watford.We have good international players in Wes, Brady etc. Do we just want to rid the squad of all quality because they''re high earners or apparently don''t care?I''m all for promoting youth where possible but in terms of just buying run of the mill players and hoping they turn into world beaters is a false economy. Lambert done it but it''s not the norm.I''m sure Ipswich have had a lot of committed players over the last 15 years but they''ve been devoid of quality and have spent the entire time in this bloody league we''re all desperate to get out of.[/quote]Were players like Holt, Ruddy, Howson and Russell Martin ''run of the mill'', or were they sensible buys?Back in the 80s and 90s it was the norm for us to buy reserves and lower league players, and we did very well overall for a long period. We bought ''run of the mill'' players like Bruce, Phelan, Crook, Bowen, Culverhouse, Gunn as well as higher price quality like Fleck and Robins.Even accounting for changes to football since that era, there''s nothing to stop us doing similar today. The key back then was using that kind of strategy as a means to compete against bigger clubs. Trying to predominantly buy the finished article doesn''t play to any kind of competitive advantage whatsoever.The sort of ''finished article'' strategy we''ve mostly followed post Lambert is high risk. It might work for a while, but there''s a high risk that when the wheels fall off we have to virtually start from scratch, and hence end up in this division for 10 years or so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,531 Posted November 28, 2016 Except that we''ve been investing in youth at the same time over the past few seasons. The young players we have at the club have not happened by chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
93vintage 16 Posted November 28, 2016 [quote user="nutty nigel"]Except that we''ve been investing in youth at the same time over the past few seasons. The young players we have at the club have not happened by chance.[/quote]That''s true, and it will help in the future, but we could have bought better in general in that period too.It''s no good getting your toenails pampered if you then go and shoot yourself in the foot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kick it off 1,948 Posted November 28, 2016 [quote user="hogesar"]But the poster said less Seb Bassongs above me. Eh? Part of our highest prem finish [/quote] I agree with a large part of your post Hogesar, but in the interest of accuracy I had to take issue with the quoted part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted November 28, 2016 "The current squad of players is so far removed from a fully functional, competitive PL squad that promotion this season would be absolutely futile."so how would we achieve it then if we are that bad ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagster 101 Posted November 28, 2016 I think we are at a cross roads, the boards plan is obviously that youth is the way forward but if we did get promoted then there chances of breaking through into the first team will be severly reduced.We obviously need to rebalance the squad, hopefully we can do that in January but I honestly think another year in the championship will be good for us in the long run.For me the biggest question is is Alex the man for the job, do we accept that promotion for us this year is not on the agenda and give him the chance to rebalance or do we get someone new in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unique 435 Posted November 28, 2016 " so how would we achieve it then if we are that bad ?"Judging by the first part of the season - by the ineptitude of other teams, rather than scintillating performances from the team.Judging by recent results/performances - there is nothing to fear..... We won''t. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coq au vin 0 Posted November 28, 2016 If we get promoted the youth will barely get a look in. And if seeking to stay in the Prem we''d be entirely reliant on buying players who''d have been there done that. And those guys cost money, money which as we all know is not something NCFC have abundance of. I would love to get back to the Prem, but there''/ more questions than answers about how we''d realistically stay there. We need the right players to stay there but we need the money to get the players. New owners then? That comes with its own pitfalls which have been discussed a million times on here already. I don''t want to stay in the Champ but if it comes down to development of young talent for a season, and axing some of the hangers on then I''d be all for honing our emerging crop and adding to that talent base. However, this again comes back to the question of our scouting system which we''re all well aware has failed nigh on three seasons in a row. Staying in the Champ for a season and not being able to sign under the radar talent with burgeoning take-over clubs like Wolves, Bristol etc being able to steal them away with bigger budget pools is worrying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Vince 318 Posted November 28, 2016 [quote user="unique"]The current squad of players is so far removed from a fully functional, competitive PL squad that promotion this season would be absolutely futile.Allied to this, the club has proved time and again its inability to spend money wisely or put into place a scouting network that is fit for purpose. The current setup does not lend itself to the club stabilising itself in the PL.It looks very much that the club will be finding itself at the start of another 7-year plan with a mass cull of the current crop, and a gamble on the promising youngsters that are carrying no scars or baggage.[/quote]I agree that promotion is futile because this Board has proved time and again it cannot maintain EPL status. There is no one on the Board with the money to ramp the club up to the next level by:1. Investing in better players (buying the likes of Jarvis, Dorrans, Pinto will not keep the club in the EPL)2. Investing in improved training facilities3. Investing in ground expansion4. Investing in a worldwide recruitment network with scouts in every continent Share this post Link to post Share on other sites