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FatMan Fat

Poor baby Henderson

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Mmmm, it seems that Mr W. thinks that the fans should get off Henderson''s back. Well, here is a better suggestion...don''t pick Henderson when is clearly playing crap, then we wont get on his back :-)
A better selection might well be Brennan on the left and McVeigh on the right...that way Henderson won''t get his feelings hurt :-o]

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You sit in the snake pit then do you?
I don''t expect your comments and opinions will find much support on this board.
Have you stopped to consider for one second that the guy is just a kid, has fragile confidence and doesn''t need the likes of you barracking him. He''s been a revelation since he came into the side when we had injuries on the right and he stepped up when called upon brilliantly. Have you forgotten that?

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Not to rock the boat old boy but I do have some sympathy with Mr Fat. Whilst I agree Henderson is wonderful and a great prospect for seasons yet to come and a stirling member of the team who stands shoulder to shoulder with the rest looking forward to a brighter future for the children of the world etc etc, he really shouldn''t have been picked against Bradford. Whilst in a perfect world all Henderson abuse would be directed toward good old Nige W for another brilliant bit of team selection (Brennan was the clearly the correct chocice for the left with McVeigh on the right) we''ll have to put up with fans venting their spleens on poor, young, Mr Henderson. I don''t condone it, but I certainly understand why it''s happening. As does Mr Fat I imagine. Comments please.

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Well from what I heard McVeigh made a mistake for the goal, and didn''t do much the other end either. So perhaps the "clear" choice of Brennan McVeigh is wrong.

No-one is saying Hendo played well, but you need more than two bad games before you are "having a poor run of form". Form isn''t assessed on two games.

That is where the barrackers are totally unfounded and wrong.

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These are good points, but do you not agree that McVeigh had a better game than Henderson?

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In footballing terms Hendo is a baby, but has performed excellently, unlike Rivers he has contributed assists as well as scoring important goals.

Probably should have been rested on Saturday, but unbridled criticism and barracking will do nothing for his confidence, get behind him.

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Supporter = One that supports, as a structural member of a building.
One who promotes or advocates; an adherent: a supporter of capitalism.
An athletic supporter.
Heraldry An animal or figure that supports a shield in a coat of arms.

No where there does it say, somebody that sits on his arse shouting abuse at an 18 year that runs his socks of for the team that he supports.

I am fed up with so called supporters shouting at and abusing players. What the hell do you think they are going to do?
Criticising them on the messageboard is a different story, but actually shouting abuse at them is pointless, disruptive and confidence denting. Why not use your energy to encourage our team?

Encourage = To inspire with hope, courage, or confidence; hearten.
To give support to; foster: policies designed to encourage private investment.
To stimulate; spur: burning the field to encourage new plant growth.

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I''d have to agree with stevenagefan. And I''d like to add that you have to respect that Nigel Worthington and the player himself know full well when he''s had a bad game, so when he''s out there doing his best to make up for a poor performance the previous week, it''s hardly going to do him much good to have large sections of his own team''s fans adding to the pressure on his shoulders.

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Poor Fat Blokes logic does add a lot of weight to the jibes from opposition fans that City supporters are all inbred rural bumkins.

If we accept Fat Blokes reasoning that Worthington "don''t pick Henderson when is clearly playing crap " might I ask how we would know they are playing crap other than by playing him ?

Do we assume that anyone who has an off game should be dropped immediately - to replaced by who ?

A player previously dropped ?

Dropped, we must assume, because he was previously playing crap also. With little or no reserve games to speak off the only proving ground is the first team.

Worthington may have many reasons for playing one player not another.

They could be reasons personal to a number of players even tactical, motivational or simply a measure of experimentation.

Given all those variables there are going to be mistakes.

Is Henderson supposed to tell Worthington not to pick him because a few social inadequates cannot grasp the bigger picture. ?

What would be the reaction of the majority of the supporters if a player publicly stated that he would no longer follow his managers instructions but would instead take advice from some half witted pie muncher in the stands.

We all get frustrated, angry and incredibly disillisioned with the team, players and the club. But most of us feel that the surest way to avoid that feeling is to get behind the team and encourage them the best we can.

If supporting City can feel like pushing a battered old van up hill the and the likes of Fat Bloke don''t want to help that''s OK.

In fact, I don''t even mind if his sort want to get in the front of the van and and have a free ride.

There''s enough of us, we can cope - but Ill be b*****ed if I''ll put up with him and others going round the front and pushing against us.

Support the team or go somewhere else and clear your throat ie far cough !

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My, oh my!! Methinks that most of you have lost the plot :-0)
Henderson has not played well for a few games now...ipso facto Mr W should not have picked him. However, he did pick him , and Henderson showed yet again that he is far from the finished article (fully accepting that he is 18) with another tacticly niave performance. That being so, Mr W is also niave in stating that supporters should not let their feelings known.
I have invested far more time in supporting Norwich than Mr W has, and I suspect far more time than most of the wearers of rose coloured glasses who post on this board :-P
It''s one thing claiming to be positive, but when you are mature enough you will realise it is better to be realistic!!

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It is not about supposed levels of reality.

The blinding arrogance that lies behind your posts is best incapsulated by your '' my dad''s bigger than your dad '' level of debate. It leads you to believe that only those shouting out abuse have any grasp of what''s going on.

Maybe I''m from the old school when a City fan was a City fan irrespective of the time supporting the club or what you did outside of the ground. When you got into the ground you gave the team and club your full support.

It is not seeing the world through rose tinted glasses either. Far from it. It is simply recognizing what is the most effective use of your energy as a supporter for the ninety minutes of play.



ps I''m sure your views would be welcome in suffolk where the same delusions about divine right hold sway and the regular abuse of players is a common occurence at Poorman Rd.

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So, most of the posters on this thread think that Henderson has been playing well and deserves his place in the team?
If they do, then they ARE wearing rose coloured glasses!! For some few matches Henderson has looked out of his depth - a fact that hasnt escaped some of his fellow players who have clearly castigated him after he has perpetrated yet another "howler" - or dont other supporters see Malkay; Flem; Edgworthy etc blowing in Henderson''s ear?
The point I continue to make is that Worthington should not have picked Henderson based on past recent performances....however, having picked him, and having seen Henderson put in yet another inept display, Worthington shouldnt bemoan the fact that some supporters get frustrated and voice their emotions. After all said and done, we were trying to consolidate our lead at the Top of the League against Bradford, and we didnt do very well, did we?

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Master Green, why are you so intent on ruining any good, controversial, thread on this board?

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To pick up on the general point of this thread: when should a player be dropped? When he is not the best player to be in the team.

With three substitutes allowed it seems clear that a player who just hasn''t got it on the day should be taken off AND I would suggest that it should be apparent to the experts (manager, assistant manager and 1st team coach) at least as quick as it is to the minnions in the crowd.

SO why why why why why why (got the message yet?) why (for those who haven''t) do we have players left on the pitch to receive abuse?

Forget the fans who bear grudges "Oh no Rivers is coming on" I''m talking about general moans.

When the abuse/criticism builds to the level of Saturday its blo*dy obvious the player should have been brought off. Even if nothing was said by the crowd the players were saying enough!! He knew he was having a bad day - For goodness sake he started passing straight back when he got the ball so he wouldn''t make a mistake.

Stevenage Fan - you have coached youngsters, then you know that you don''t leave a kid on the pitch to be destroyed. You get him off and tell him that he''s played well but there''s a couple of lessons to be learnt.

I''m sorry folks but I''ve read all this and I had pent up frustrations to let out - as a number of people did on Saturday

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And there it is! They always revert to type in the end, back to the comfort of the retort: "I''ve been a fan for longer than you can remember...blah blah"
You don''t have to say anything else, we know what it means. It means you know all there is to know about NCFC and have damn well earned the right to say whatever you like to whoever you like and stuff the rest. And anyone who disagrees is far less experienced than you and doesn''t understand the club like you do. Isn''t that right?

You sound like Bury Belvoir! Have you changed your name after having totally discredited yourself with the "i won''t renew my season ticket" nonesense from a couple of months back?

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I agree with your later post Fat Man, if Heno has been playing badly for 3 or 4 games then Mr. W shouldn''t have picked him. My point is abusing him whilst he is trying to play won''t help in any positive way. All I am saying is encourage him then moan afterwards.

Plus how do any of us know that in training the week before the game Hendo hasn''t been absolutely outstanding and everyone else for the position has been crap??? Mr. W and staff use trainng as the basis for their selection more so than the last match. Do you really think its like Championship Manager where you select your next team based on their ratings from the last 5 matches? No it isn''t. The whole club works hard all week and the 11 players that work the hardest and show the best progress, are not injured, have personal issues, got a cold or fallen out with the manager get selected. At the end of the day we have to assume that the people that are paid thousands to run the club and select players know more about it than any of us and therefore give 100% support for at least 90 minutes. Yes it is easy for me to say this as I haven''t been this season, but I still thought it is a basic rule of support.

:0) yes you are right, I wouldn''t leave a youngster out there to get destroyed, but that wasn''t the debate. The debate is supporting them whilst they are out there, not barracking them. If I knew the youngster was superb in training but was affected by the pressure of the game, then the only way he can overcome that fear is to play in the game and get used to it. Taking him out at the first hurdle would just set him back further and dent his confidence even more. The first thing is to tackle the parents that are putting on the pressure and just let him/her play their football with no added pressure.

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" Master Green, why are you so intent on ruining any good, controversial, thread on this board? "

eh ?

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I think Stevenage raises a very good point. Worthy picks the team based on a lot more than "how did they get on in the last game". Hendo might have been blinding in training, Rivers et al my have been rubbish. Hendo may have asked for more time to prove himself. Worthy might have wanted him to get his bad form out of the way.

Only the manager picks the team, and while it may be obvious to armchair boys that he has got it wrong, don''t forget he is dealing with inter-club politics, training performances, team shape, opposition strength etc etc etc. He may make a few errors, but Nigel is not exactly blessed with squad strength in depth.

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There you go again MG, slagging of the less infected parts of Suffolk again, which are of course City fan based. Knock it off my friend, you know we are ''touchy'' on this subject, but you do yourself no favours.

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Just to back up Windy''s point Master Green on ruining the thread.

Your posts always head towards a holier than thou stance incorporating insulting or abusive wording such as "Blinding Arrogance" or "My dad''s bigger....".

I''m the chap you called a "luddite" by the way so it''s not a one off.

We are all here to voice an opinion without trying to humiliate or attack the other person. The idea is to build up a debate & to look at other''s opinion''s rather than being so single minded & disregarding someone else''s point of view. (Yes it sounds like Hippy Tree hugging cr*p).

We all appreciate it''s not ideal to criticise players but in the heat of the moment if a player does something badly or plays poorly most people would comment.
This is our only chance to make our feelings known as I don''t think Ian or Nigel would read our message board so during a game it''s an opportunity to get the point across. If you shout "Henderson you''re rubbish" & you''re the only one then you look stupid but if others agree then maybe a point is being made.

Can you honestly say you''ve never shouted at a player at a game when you''ve been?

Personally I don''t think Ian merits a starting place because I don''t feel he has strength on the ball, doesn''t tackle well & doesn''t always track back but that''s my opinion.
He reminds me of Chris Llewylnn (apologies for spelling) in that so much was expected & chance after chance was given & he never quite delivered what we thought he was capable of. The crowd got on his back & he was off. At Bristol Rovers he banged in a corker & then went off the boil only to go to Wrexham where I think occasionally he may do something spectacular.
At this level we need the quality week in week out & not sporadically so if he needs a rest give it him but don''t blame a poor performance on being tired because as a manager Nigel should see this before & not after. And no I don''t expect Nigel to have a cystal ball but he should be aware of a players'' fitness & what they can & can''t do.

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Well said Swindon NCFC - you''ve been nothered to write what I couldn''t bring myself to, in terms of effort!

Now that this thread is effectively over I look forward to tomorrow and Worthy''s team selection. I think/hope that Brennan will play on the left with McVeigh on the right. The controversy will come when looking towards the bench. Rivers or Henderson. What do you think?

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There are certain sections of your post I would agree with. Your point to stevenage fan makes sence. Henderson by his actions was showing true signs of a lack of confidence, or had he been instructed not to take on players. The criticisms we make on these boards are points made for clear debate and have no effect on the players in question. We do not however have enough information to make quality decisions about what should be or what should not be done to improve a players performance. One thing is certain and that is that it is useless to viciously barrack a player from the stands in the hope that he will improve, for he will not! To take your question further, why do we leave players on so long that they recieve abuse from the more critical members of the supporters. It is precisely so that it gives the player a chance to put things right, but only if you encourage instead of abuse. Best wishes, Beelsie

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Rather odd posts.

Swindon chap thinks that the manager should be a mere weather vane reflecting the fans views through the teams selection. Personally I think he should pay little or no heed to what a few idiots in the stands shout.

He is appointed and paid for his abilities. Fans are in the stands for the opposite reasons.

As to the complaints of insults I''m sorry that you missed the obvious point of highlightoing how it appears ok to shout abuse at a City player by his own fans - but not ok for City fan to post insults about another City fan.

Seems some animals are more equal ......... etc

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Ho hum...nothing more to say really, other than the point of my original post which was that if Mr W continued to pick a player who has demonstrated over a number of matches that he is not ready (yet) for REGULAR first team football then dont be surprised if some fans voice their dissapointment with a particular performance...
Other than that I have to say that Windy talks a lot of sense :-0)

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But he hadn''t!!! He played well at Ipswich, very well against Forest, and I thought he had been doing ok. When was this demonstration of his inability to cope with regular first team football?

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