So.....

[Guest]

[quote user="Dan Dare"]I fully support the manager and club (board).Not out of blind faith but the recognition that where we have come since May 2009 is nothing short of bl  oody brilliant. So much so that many are seeing it as a right that we should be in the PL  season after season.Maybe some should see the bigger picture. We are to an extent ''little ole Norwich'' given the limtations of the size of the club. That just means the fight is just that little bit harde, that''s all.And we will have the moaners and miserableist on here and at the ground. All of the latter are almost always the  original happy clappies''. Those who have tagged alomg in the last few seasons. Who are often more entertained by the giant flag waving that the actual game.However we are not even half way through the season.  In 2010/11 we were 9 points behind the automatic spot in late November, so it can be done.So regonise that pretty much the vast majority of league football fans would give their eye teeth to have a club like ours.Now, why not support it instead of endlessly whining ?[/quote]

Well put my granite jawed interplanetary space pilot friend.

However, I think the comparison with 2010-11 is not favourable.

Then we were a club reaching for the stars. We had a navigator universally loved and the crew included many fine cadets. And our booster rockets were enough to put us into orbit around Planet Prem.

Now, we have fallen out of orbit and our stabilisers that looked like reversing the spin have stuttered somewhat.

The navigator doesn''t have the total respect of the crew and keeps promoting the wrong cadets to officer at times.

Lets hope he can manouevre past the black hole on the horizon and take us into space station playoffs.

Perhaps he is a Klingon?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Indy"]What makes people think AN is right for our club? We get a lot of why we want change but why should he stay?[/quote]What makes any manager right for any club?

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="hogesar"]I don''t think there''ll ever be a definitive amount of games to make me think AN is the right guy to take us forward but after a terrible run in 7 games, If we can win 7 of the next ten or similar surely that averages out to him doing a good enough job? We would be in the playoffs in that scenario.

I think the problem is this squad was capable of finishing in the top two if managed and encouraged properly. The fact that will now be a massive task is down to the poor run AN has been the figurehead of.[/quote]

Based upon the players I watched last season, hogesar, combined with the additions, I would tend to agree with you on paper. However, with respect, I don''t think your sentence that I highlighted is the "problem" but, rather, it is the issue begging the question as to why. Most of us don''t know what really goes on behind the scenes but it seems likely that something has and, if so, that is where the "problem" lies. Regardless, the manager of any football club is most often the one that has to bear the consequence of such situations whether he is mainly responsible or not. Like all such issues in life things will eventually be resolved. Let''s hope we can keep ourselves into contention while we are waiting to get to such a resolution.

[Mickdundee 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Indy"]What makes people think AN is right for our club? We get a lot of why we want change but why should he stay?[/quote]What makes any manager right for any club?[/quote]not losing six in a row would help

[hogesar 9,618]

Not changed too much Morty.

I quite often get influenced by AN interviews. Every time I''ve been relatively annoyed at him I''ve then thought AN spoke with sense and conviction.

But Barnsley was the first time I was really annoyed at the performance and then more annoyed at what he said afterwards.

"I know their a physical side" - but we done nothing to combat or compete with it tactically.

"I got the first half team wrong" - You''ve had most of this squad for 2 years. No excuse.

Hopefully this is an upturn but after that interview I lost a lot of faith.

[morty 0]

[quote user="hogesar"]Not changed too much Morty.

I quite often get influenced by AN interviews. Every time I''ve been relatively annoyed at him I''ve then thought AN spoke with sense and conviction.

But Barnsley was the first time I was really annoyed at the performance and then more annoyed at what he said afterwards.

"I know their a physical side" - but we done nothing to combat or compete with it tactically.

"I got the first half team wrong" - You''ve had most of this squad for 2 years. No excuse.

Hopefully this is an upturn but after that interview I lost a lot of faith.[/quote]Yeah that annoyed the hell out of me too.I am pretty pleased with the reaction though. I had a mate message me at half time last night bemoaning how boring the first half was, which to a neutral I guess it maybe was.But I think it was exactly the half of football that was required, we worked hard and never let Villa into the game. I''ll take boring like that, any day!

[Indy 3,283]

That''s a skill for managers, to grind out results when needed.

Credit as I''ve said, it''s good to moan when it''s warranted but with that comes credit when it''s due, too many on here are one way or the other, rigidly!

[Jools 584]

[quote user="morty"]Where does this leave people?Some maybe expected a different outcome, against a resurgent team, with a manager they maybe wanted.Has the performance raised a few eyebrows, changed a few opinions perhaps?Or just a flash in the pan?

[/quote]Flash in the pan, morty.Surrendered my proof of payment to my most reliable employee, who''s an age-old City supporter but has been unable to attend home games regularly despite the 4.4% drop in ticket prices.Alex Neil has to go.

[Jools 584]

[quote user="Indy"]That''s a skill for managers, to grind out results when needed.

Credit as I''ve said, it''s good to moan when it''s warranted but with that comes credit when it''s due, too many on here are one way or the other, rigidly![/quote]Pft! [:O] Two games short of halfway through the season, we''re 12 pts, 4 games worth, off the mighty, Hughton led Brighton and automatic promotion with the most expensive City squad in history at a certain persons disposal [:P]Credit where credit''s due!?Go task yourself with a case study of how this Division, since its inauguration in 1992, pans out in its finality with clubs who''re in a similar position as us currently.

[Jools 584]

[quote user="hogesar"]I don''t think there''ll ever be a definitive amount of games to make me think AN is the right guy to take us forward but after a terrible run in 7 games, If we can win 7 of the next ten or similar surely that averages out to him doing a good enough job? We would be in the playoffs in that scenario.

I think the problem is this squad was capable of finishing in the top two if managed and encouraged properly. The fact that will now be a massive task is down to the poor run AN has been the figurehead of.[/quote][Y]

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

Six members of the squad don''t want to be here. What do you do, leave them out completely or continue to use them while they''re here, that''s what AN is dealing with at the moment. Leave them out and he get criticised for not using them, play them and they not as committed as we want, what do you do ?

[king canary 7,578]

It''s as much about the performances when we win as well. The Brentford win was good but it was tough to shake the idea that they were poor and played right into our hands by sitting off us. I didn''t see the game Tuesday but from what I''ve heard this wasn''t the case with Villa so that seems encouraging.

A decent run of solid defensive displays where we don''t appear to be put worked by the opposition would get me back onside.

[Ray 111]

FenwayFrank,

What do you do? Well,

1) You could nurture a team spirit that at the very least produces a desire within the players to provide performances equal to the sum of its parts, surely that would be the minimum requirement of a manager and given the ability in our squad, would have us at hovering around the top two as a minimum.

2) You could dismantle the team spirit and engineer performances equal to less than the sum of the parts, which would have us flirting with mid table mediocrity.

3) You could build team spirit which would promote the team to perform at above the sum of its parts, which in our case would have us top and pulling away.

Then, you probably wouldn''t have six members of the squad who don''t want to be here, you may even have six members of other squads who would want to come here.

IMO this is not achieved by being unnecessarily aggressive, bordering on abusive, with your players (it appears to be all stick and no carrot). It is not achieved by turning a player who was MK Dons'' players'' player of the season into someone scared of his shadow, who wants out. It is not achieved by throwing your toys out of your pram and refusing to select a player who questions your tactics to the detriment of the player, the team and the club.

But then what do I know?

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

Not much if you think that''s the answer 😉

[Hairy Canary 668]

I also think that''s the answer.

Management is about building team spirit and getting people pulling together. If there really are 6 players here who don''t want to be then the question needs to be asked; why?

[morty 0]

Did they look like they were pulling together, the other night?

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Ray"]FenwayFrank,

What do you do? Well,

1) You could nurture a team spirit that at the very least produces a desire within the players to provide performances equal to the sum of its parts, surely that would be the minimum requirement of a manager and given the ability in our squad, would have us at hovering around the top two as a minimum.

2) You could dismantle the team spirit and engineer performances equal to less than the sum of the parts, which would have us flirting with mid table mediocrity.

3) You could build team spirit which would promote the team to perform at above the sum of its parts, which in our case would have us top and pulling away.

Then, you probably wouldn''t have six members of the squad who don''t want to be here, you may even have six members of other squads who would want to come here.

IMO this is not achieved by being unnecessarily aggressive, bordering on abusive, with your players (it appears to be all stick and no carrot). It is not achieved by turning a player who was MK Dons'' players'' player of the season into someone scared of his shadow, who wants out. It is not achieved by throwing your toys out of your pram and refusing to select a player who questions your tactics to the detriment of the player, the team and the club.

But then what do I know?[/quote]

This kind of post by someone who thinks they have inside knowledge frankly annoys me intensely.  You keep coming out on different threads with anti-manager stuff that is aparently based on "what you see and here".    Well we had this with one or two posters with Hughton - people telling us hh ewas bullying, weak, divisive, etc. etc.  Well that isn''t borne out anywhere else he has been where he has been universally lauded. So to answer your post - team spirit was there in droves on Tuesday, as it was as we reached the top of the table a few weeks ago.  Teams struggle sometimes. Now then Ray, with Josh, he was at a club last season where he could outshine the rest of the players, be under less pressure because the expectations were not so great there and go out and enjoy himself.  So scared of his own shadow?  Wants out?  Really?  Or maybe just under a bit more pressure in a team where other players are as good or better than him and he needs to work his way into the reckoning?  As for the manager being angry at being questioned about tactics - well, if  the questioning of tactics was done in a confrontational way, then most managers would be angry.  Who are you talking about anyway?  Oh no, you won''t tell us, will you......

 

[Ray 111]

Yeah, maybe you''re right FenwayFrank, what do I know? Too simple to be a step in the right direction, surely our manager wouldn''t think of any of that, just doesn''t add up does it, fostering team spirit so everyone wants to stay and others join. Surely, it''s better to hack everyone off then hurl abuse at them and then publicly criticise them when they fail to give you 100%, that''s the way to do it, said (Mr) Pulcinella

[Ray 111]

LDC,

On this occasion, you are very wide of the mark, let''s leave it at that.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Ray"]Yeah, maybe you''re right FenwayFrank, what do I know? Too simple to be a step in the right direction, surely our manager wouldn''t think of any of that, just doesn''t add up does it, fostering team spirit so everyone wants to stay and others join. Surely, it''s better to hack everyone off then hurl abuse at them and then publicly criticise them when they fail to give you 100%, that''s the way to do it, said (Mr) Pulcinella[/quote]Bruce, who is considered a good manager for this level slagged off his players in public in no uncertain terms after Tuesday. Is he not good enough either?

[hogesar 9,618]

Reckon if we beat Huddersfield comfortably this kind of thing will quieten down for a bit.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Ray"]LDC,

On this occasion, you are very wide of the mark, let''s leave it at that.[/quote]I interpretted what I could from your post in as honest a way as I could. So once again, you have put something down and won''t support it or discuss the detail.  Your perogative, I suppose, but your inferences were quite clear.

[Ray 111]

LDC, I''ve shared my thoughts, you''ve shared yours, so as I said, let''s leave it, probably best all round.

[morty 0]

Ray this all a bit silly now, acting like you''re desperate to tell us something, then pulling back at the last minute.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Ray"]LDC, I''ve shared my thoughts, you''ve shared yours, so as I said, let''s leave it, probably best all round.[/quote]Ok, Ray, but if Canos (who I presume you''re referring to, unless you say otherwise) has questioned the tactics, then he is not really in a position to do that, being new to the club, still very young and maybe needing to earn the respect of the manager rather than question him - and the best way he can do that is by buckling down and getting on with it.  If you are referring to anyone else, I don''t know who it is, as nearly all the other players feature a bit from time to time, even Lafferty.

[Mr Apples 1,317]

The only reliable source I trust is True Grit, Ray just doesn''t check out.

Apples

[Ray 111]

Morty,

I agree, it looks a bit silly, but then I cannot legislate for those who cannot take what I say at face value, I''m not going to get all precious about it and flounce off but if any poster doesn''t like what I attempt to share every now and again, don''t read it.

I have no need to justify myself to anyone other than myself ergo, I feel my posts are justified, if others do not, then as far as I am concerned they are entitled to their opinion and good luck to them.

[Old Shuck 183]

There will be players at every club in the country who don''t want to be there, who don''t like their manager or get on with their team mates. We''re no exception. Six out of a large first team squad is nothing out of the ordinary if that is the case.

[Tumbleweed 106]

Exactly Hairy. Remember when Bassong was brought in from the cold? I certainly thought we had recruited a great man manager. Now I am a bit doubtful about that. A key skill in AN''s role is to motivate and keep morale high. Instead of simply stating that the players don''t want to be here, and thus by inference absolving AN from any responsibility, the crucial thing is to look at the underlying reasons. Some of them could be valid such as distance from family or failure to settle, even silly things like not liking where they live or personality clashes with other players and so on. Some could be solveable, some not. A manager earns the big bucks for identifying these issues and doing what can be done to sort them, if possible. He can''t fix them all, but he can fix some.

As to the qu a few pages back about how long before Out becomes In is thinly disguised obtusity, but it is (to me at least) a pure judgement call. Could be the next 10 games, could be fewer, probably will be more. I don''t know how long but I do know that I will recognise when (or if) that moment comes based on my feelings of how things have gone over an extended period.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Hairy Canary"]I also think that''s the answer.

Management is about building team spirit and getting people pulling together. If there really are 6 players here who don''t want to be then the question needs to be asked; why?[/quote]Its quite a conundrum.So we have a team that was in the Premiership last year. We have players who all took wage cuts as a result. We are on a losing streak, which could make some perceive that promotion is looking less likely. There is a transfer window coming up.I don''t claim to be "in the know" but I really don''t think I''ll need Scooby Doo on this one.