Jump to content
Note to existing users - password reset is required Read more... ×
Sign in to follow this  
Ray

If you genuinely feel ......

Recommended Posts

So, it appears that according to Mr Neil the entire Newcastle debacle was down to the fact we didn’t win some headers (EDP today).

IMO that aspect of our game certainly played a major part and therefore I agree with him (I’m sure he’s pleased to hear that!) but his criticising particular aspects of our performance, and therefore by definition, one if not more than one, of our players in public, coupled with the self-justification of his own decisions makes me wonder about his man-management and managerial abilities, which was further compounded when I read the following, “It is not about picking them up either, I think their job is to pick themselves up” and then “My job is just to pick a team that can win at Wolves.”

Please be careful Mr Neil, if you genuinely feel it is not about picking them up, if you genuinely feel that is their job, if you genuinely feel you bear no responsibility for Wednesday night by picking Seb, who, up until then, hadn’t played a minute of Championship football this season, because he is left footed and you need a balance (Klose btw is right footed just in case you hadn’t noticed Mr Neil), if you genuinely feel removing the quickest player on the pitch from our armoury and therefore surrendering ground was the best form of defence and if you genuinely feel criticising players so frequently in public and blaming everyone but yourself (or very rarely) then beside it being the players’ job to pick themselves up they may decide it is their job to pick the team and decide tactics.

One last point, and I quote you again, “….from that point on you know it is going to be a test of whether we can defend. At a place like Newcastle they are going to come at you with everything they have got.” Well if you know that put a tactic in place which takes away some of what they have got, cos if you chuck enough sh*t at the wall eventually some of it will stick, so minimise the amount of sh*t and there’s a fair chance less will stick.

For the avoidance of doubt (especially for you Morty) I have no issue with Alex Neil as a person, I do however have an issue with some of his tactics and decisions, doesn’t make either of us good or bad people just makes our viewpoint different, I want NCFC to have a progressive, young, quick learning manager and it would be great if it is the current incumbent, it’s just that at the moment I’m not sure Alex Neil fits all the aforementioned requirements – I sincerely hope I am wrong.

Blue touch paper lit, well it appears to be a quiet day on here, so may as well liven it up!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gotchya Morty, gotchya (can''t do smileys)

And to be pedantic, not moaning about Alex Neil, just his decisions and tactics, there is a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pretty much agree with what AN has said. People have blamed him for the decision to bring on an extra defender but there''s few managers who wouldn''t have.
The reality is players didn''t do their basics and sometimes it''s up to them to sort themselves out. I know in the current climate the manager always takes the fall (and AN will be more than aware of that) but truth be told the Newcastle collapse isn''t something that has just been under AN''s reign - the same kind of thing has happened under numerous managers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I must say his post match press conference didn''t exactly fill me with confidence. No acknowledgement of maybe getting the substitution wrong, putting it entirely on the players and throwing them under the bus a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="hogesar"]Pretty much agree with what AN has said. People have blamed him for the decision to bring on an extra defender but there''s few managers who wouldn''t have.
The reality is players didn''t do their basics and sometimes it''s up to them to sort themselves out. I know in the current climate the manager always takes the fall (and AN will be more than aware of that) but truth be told the Newcastle collapse isn''t something that has just been under AN''s reign - the same kind of thing has happened under numerous managers.
[/quote]

I disagree. If the change was made in injury time, then yeah I would understand - but we had 10 minutes of relentless pressure, compounded by the fact we couldn''t get out as soon as we had cleared it was coming back. Even worse, Shelvey who is probably the bet passer in the league, had acres of space to spray the ball around as much as he wanted

It doesn''t matter how many defenders you have on the pitch, under that pressure you will concede. In my opinion, we let Newcastle bring that pressure by bringing Bennett on for Murphy, who was (or his brother) our best chance of getting the ball up the pitch - not necessarily to score, but to give the defence a chance to get set

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For once, I agree with morty''s sentimemt. Ray, your way of putting things in a pseudo polite way disguises nothing. Despite what you say, it makes it appear you have a big AN sized chip on your shoulder. We can all agree or disagree about tactics/team selection on Wedneday, I have some sympathy for your views on both, but where I would draw the line is making it into an issue that brings his overall methods into question.  He is the man in charge, he makes the tactics, he deals with the players.  Do you have experience as a manager in the Championship? As for your point about picking up players - if the players need picking

up to make a better fist of things next time out, they should not be

professionl footballers.  If you are worried about younger players, which you have said about in the past, then maybe under him they will learn to grow up a bit quicker, if they are treated as adult players and not molly coddled and wrapped in cotton wool because they are young. AN is always talking about protecting players from a fitness point of view and an from over exsposure at a too young age point of view. He is known for his man management as demonstrated on leaving Hamilton where he was so highly regarded. So unless you can tell us some evidence as to why you are not sure about his man management - then I think you shouldn''t be saying it. He is a young man - that is good - he makes mistakes and he will improve.  What he doesn''t need is people trying to undermine him with a biased agenda - which again, whatever you say, comes across as clear as anything in your repeated posts about him - which you have picked up either from young players at the club or in some capacity yourself. At this time, in this season, does he really need that? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="hogesar"]Pretty much agree with what AN has said. People have blamed him for the decision to bring on an extra defender but there''s few managers who wouldn''t have.
The reality is players didn''t do their basics and sometimes it''s up to them to sort themselves out. I know in the current climate the manager always takes the fall (and AN will be more than aware of that) but truth be told the Newcastle collapse isn''t something that has just been under AN''s reign - the same kind of thing has happened under numerous managers.
[/quote]Exactly this.Absolutely no point in saving a player for that out ball, if you''re getting done with balls over the top of the defence. Alex spotted that and brought on the extra centre back. And with that action they should have seen out the game. At the risk of repeating myself, its down to players not doing their jobs properly, and not being brave enough. Who knows, perhaps there is still a mental fragility post relegation?Yeah I understand people were upset, and need to lash out at someone, but really it depends on your opinion of Alex Neil (the guy who got us promoted at Wembley, remember that?) and Ray has beautifully illustrated here someone who dislikes Alex Neil, and will spin things accordingly.Is Alex Neil perfect? No of course he isn''t.Am I happy with him being our manager? Yes I am.People really have some awful short memories....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree with Morty,

We still had Jerome and Brady on the pitch as an outlet further up the field to hold the ball up. The problem wasn''t about taking off Jacob, the problem was than we didn''t deal with balls over the top. The defenders didn''t to the job well enough. To some extent the problem was that Shelvey was able to spray passes around and he should have been picked up better, but the main issue was defenders who didn''t defend well enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
king canary wrote the following post at 30/09/2016 11:07 AM:

I must say his post match press conference didn''t exactly fill me with confidence. No acknowledgement of maybe getting the substitution wrong, putting it entirely on the players and throwing them under the bus a bit.

Yep I said at the time that I was hoping he would be taking a bit of the responsibility for that debacle and I was really disappointed that he didn''t. I think he''s a good guy but I am beginning to worry that he may not be learning everything he needs to from his experiences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FFS Morty, how many times, I do not dislike AN, I do however disagree with some of his decisions and tactics.

There''s no spinning required, he said what he said and I have an opinion on that, which is always what I say, it is my opinion, not fact, or indeed ''end of'' Morty.

LDC, I cannot nor will not answer some of your questions, but the evidence is there to support my point of view, but as said above and repeatedly in my posts, it is simply my point of view, we all have them and often make them public, you and Morty in particular and as for pseudo polite, if that''s what you feel my demeanour is then that is your prerogative and I respect that (pseudo enough for you?).

Now my job here is done, I''ve managed to get Morty and LDC to agree on something. HooRay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Ray"]FFS Morty, how many times, I do not dislike AN, I do however disagree with some of his decisions and tactics.

There''s no spinning required, he said what he said and I have an opinion on that, which is always what I say, it is my opinion, not fact, or indeed ''end of'' Morty.

LDC, I cannot nor will not answer some of your questions, but the evidence is there to support my point of view, but as said above and repeatedly in my posts, it is simply my point of view, we all have them and often make them public, you and Morty in particular and as for pseudo polite, if that''s what you feel my demeanour is then that is your prerogative and I respect that (pseudo enough for you?).

Now my job here is done, I''ve managed to get Morty and LDC to agree on something. HooRay[/quote]For God''s sake Ray, for "Dislike Alex Neil" please read "dislike his tactics" if it makes you feel better.You have no evidence whatsoever Ray, just an opinion. Unless, of course you have a time machine, and can go back and talk Alex Neil into making a different substitution, and seeing how it turns out.You''re just a bloke with an opinion, same as the rest of us. And it is increasingly tainted against Alex Neils professionalism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Rock The Boat"]Agree with Morty,

We still had Jerome and Brady on the pitch as an outlet further up the field to hold the ball up. The problem wasn''t about taking off Jacob, the problem was than we didn''t deal with balls over the top. The defenders didn''t to the job well enough. To some extent the problem was that Shelvey was able to spray passes around and he should have been picked up better, but the main issue was defenders who didn''t defend well enough.[/quote]

Jerome has to challenge for the initial header. He was that isolated that if he won or lost the header Newcastle were picking it up.

Brady off for Bennett would have been a better shout - my guess would be his LB experience counted in his favor for staying on instead of Murphy

Its Shelvey that''s the issue - yes we didn''t deal with the long balls, but we weren''t exactly doing much to stop them. This wasn''t an issue after change though, this was all game long. We needed somebody to apply pressure to make him play the ball quicker/aimlessly as opposed to picking his man out every time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Really you could blame anyone you like, as rogue illustrates above. Who was meant to be picking up Shelvey? Was it Howson? Should we blame him then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Ray"]LDC, I cannot nor will not answer some of your questions, but the evidence is there to support my point of view[/quote]Cannot or "will not", says it all.  You are the one who made the thread, if you can''t back it up with evidence, then you are just putting something out there in the hope that people will accept at face value. That is ok at one level and it might satisfy you that you are getting something off your chest, but to the rest of us it just looks like an agenda.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AN clearly fouled up with his far too early defensive subs which meant we had backs to the wall in desperation for far longer than was desirable .  He must assume in future that we may get six minutes of injury time as referees add a ridiculous amount of time on for our time-wasting tactics.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Morty, it would make me feel better if you actually truly reflected what I wrote, rather than me having to second guess you.

I have evidence re the way he conducts himself, do I have evidence the result would have been any different, no, never said I did, in fact said the opposite in another thread we debated in.

Maybe I could make a request of you Morty, please read what I write carefully.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let us be clear AN has now had two summers to sort out the balance and the make up of the squad and any independent assessment of the squad would see a squad that is dominated by quality midfield players and a wafer thin quantity/quality of defence and strikers. At present it only takes one injury in these critical areas for problems to occur. AN clearly has very limited faith in squad replacements Lafferty , Bennett and Turner which in my opinion tends to knock their confidence.

AN in his post match comments as LD has stated clearly puts the blame on the players rather than himself . He should have put Maddison on for Murphy and thus closed down their midfield and not disrupted the formation of the back four. Maddison would have harried and chased in midfield and bolstered the team something Bennett clearly wouldnt do.

Is Alex Neil perfect? No and after his honeymoon period here which most managers have , has in my opinion got worse and worse.

Am I happy with him being our manager? No I am not , and I know we are second in league but I believe it is the quality of the squad that is making that happen. C Jerome gave a telling point away that at Newcastle for the first 30 mins they ie AN wanted different tactics and it was a disaster could have been three nil down. So they reverted to normal tactics and before you know it we are three one up!! Enough said.

People really have some awful short memories.... Yes as the classic quote goes from most managers you are only as good as your last result. Football more than any sport has very short memories AN can only rely on that Wembley result for so long.........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Ray"]Morty, it would make me feel better if you actually truly reflected what I wrote, rather than me having to second guess you.

I have evidence re the way he conducts himself, do I have evidence the result would have been any different, no, never said I did, in fact said the opposite in another thread we debated in.

Maybe I could make a request of you Morty, please read what I write carefully.[/quote]No Ray, you do not have evidence, you have an opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As an outlet would it not have made more sense to put on a player that can hold possession and help to tick the clock down away from our defence...... ie: Hoolahan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can anyone tell me when we ever had a perfect manager?I seem to remember even Lambert losing games. I think this has got more to do with peoples increasing self entitlement issues frankly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do think AN struggles to read and react to the flow of the game and to influence it.

At the end of last season he talked up a bit of self reflection but rarely do you get the feeling he sees or accepts his errors.

I think he gets cut more slack than others might. What if Hughton had taken off a forward for a defender like that? I suspect that would have been even less popular.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People saying that it was bringing on an extra defender that brought on the onslaught for the last 10 minutes seem to be forgetting the first half hour. Newcastle got cross after cross into our box and we were lucky that they struggled with the finish. During that period we couldn''t really get out of our half or hold onto the ball, so why do you think that would have been different had we kept a young lad with pace who was probably getting a bit knackered after being ''our only outlet'' for the previous 80 minutes and isn''t the best at getting back at the best of times...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Mr Apples"]So, if he would have made the substitution 7 minutes later than he did would everything have been ok?

Apples[/quote]
The defensive sub should certainly not have been made so early. Bennett for Murphy was stupid anyway IMO.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="cornish sam"]People saying that it was bringing on an extra defender that brought on the onslaught for the last 10 minutes seem to be forgetting the first half hour. Newcastle got cross after cross into our box and we were lucky that they struggled with the finish. During that period we couldn''t really get out of our half or hold onto the ball, so why do you think that would have been different had we kept a young lad with pace who was probably getting a bit knackered after being ''our only outlet'' for the previous 80 minutes and isn''t the best at getting back at the best of times...[/quote]
Indeed, we couldn''t hold onto the ball so the answer could have been to bring on Hoolahan to at least attempt to hold onto it rather than pretty much giving the ball to Newcastle for the last 15-20 minutes to do as they wished.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Mr Apples"]So Paul, what would you have done?

Apples[/quote]
If you read my posts I''ve already answered and that was to bring on a player to attempt to hold possession away from the defence. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×