Jump to content
Note to existing users - password reset is required Read more... ×
Sign in to follow this  
Thirsty Lizard

Alex Neil - Playing Football the Lambert Way

Recommended Posts

It certainly feels that under Alex Neil our general pattern of performance is very similar to under Paul Lambert, i.e. scoring goals is no problem, but we concede too many for most people''s comfort.

So - being a bit of a statto I thought I''d compare the Championship records of Neil and Lambert.

So here they are:

Lambert: Played 46 - Won 23 - Drawn 15 Lost 8. Points 84

Goals For 83 - Goals Against 58.

Average Points Per Game: 1.83 - Average goals scored per game: 1.8 - Average goals conceded per game: 1.25

Neil: Played 35 - Won 23 - Drawn 7 - Lost 5. Points 76

Goals For 70 - Goals Against 37.

Average Points Per Game: 2.17 - Average goals scored per game: 2 - Average goals conceded per game: 1.06

So far - in the Championship at least - Alex Neil''s side is playing in the Lambert way, but doing it better. Lets hope we can keep it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A completely false analogy bearing in mind that Lambert''s side came up from league one and Neil''s side is supposedly of Premiership quality.

He first step in correcting a problem is to admit that you have one. Too many still unable to take that step.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Calm down Ricardo. I was just making a general point that there''s a similarity between the way that Paul Lambert''s sides and Alex Neil''s sides have performed in the Championship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No Rickyyy. It''s false because it doesn''t include Lamberts games with Blackburn.

I agree that in principle events past do not determine events future but Neil''s record in 2015 has been pretty much replicated this season. He was treated like the second messiah back then but not now. Why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why is it such a big problem Ricardo? It''s not a new thing, it''s happened for years. It happened under Lambert. But playing this style is winning us more than it''s costing us, because we''re in second place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The thing is though what is costing us (or in many games nearly costing us) is the dropping off in intensity after we have established a one or two goal lead. This is a group of players for whom the mantra "attack is the best form of defence" is very true.

Whether in part it''s a fitness thing I don''t know but is the foot off the gas, dropping deep and not pressing that is costing us not our attacking style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first step is apparently trying to will problems into existence and then claim you were the first to see the problem, claiming victory

Oh, and write s4it match reports as well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Buh"]The first step is apparently trying to will problems into existence and then claim you were the first to see the problem, claiming victory

Oh, and write s4it match reports as well[/quote]

Bluh, you''re a Poundshop Katie Borkins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Buh"]The first step is apparently trying to will problems into existence and then claim you were the first to see the problem, claiming victory

Oh, and write s4it match reports as well[/quote]You can like or dislike whatever you wish sonny. We have a clear and present problem, conceding far too many goals and throwing away points from winning positions. Those are the facts, they don''t have to be willed into existence they already exist and for those with eyes to see they have been obvious from very early on. There can be little argument that even in victory we have looked far from convincing.In spite of this problem we still have more than enough to finish in the playoffs but that as we know can be a lottery. Automatic must be the target and we won''t get that by conceding the 70 goals that present form indicates. Games should only need to be won once and the fact that we can''t do that and look vulnerable in the final half hour even with a two goal lead is a bad sign and needs to be quickly addressed before it costs us any more points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
why wont we get that?

if we are going to say we are going to concede ''the 70 goals that present form indicates'' then by the same logic we have to say that we are on course to score 100ish goals ''that present form indicates''

Unless we are looking at certain stats while ignoring others to suit our own opinions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Rogue Baboon"]why wont we get that?

if we are going to say we are going to concede ''the 70 goals that present form indicates'' then by the same logic we have to say that we are on course to score 100ish goals ''that present form indicates''

Unless we are looking at certain stats while ignoring others to suit our own opinions?[/quote]If you can''t see that the rate that we concede is a problem then I''m sorry but I can''t help you. If it continues as the season unfolds then all will become clear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
''If it continues as the season unfolds'' we are going to score 100ish goals, concede 70ish goals & have 95ish points

I don''t think for a second we will get close to any of those to be honest

Also if you remove the Newcastle & Birmingham games, we have conceded 1 per game (11 from 11) - this early in the season these sorts of stats are blown out of proportion by one or two results

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rogue Baboon, I''m with Ricardo on this one, we need to learn how to close games out - that''s the bold honest truth.

It''s okay winning games 3-1 or 2-1 after being in comfortable positions, but as Ricardo says, if we keep conceding like we are games like Fulham last night will happen far too often and it will hurt us come the end of the season.

Wigan, Cardiff and even Burton there were times in those games where it could have gone either way and at times we got lucky that we went up the other end and scored. Yes it''s okay to set yourself up to outscore other teams, that always has to be the aim - Lambo did it with overachieving players though, we accepted we would lose some games and concede with ''gung-ho football'' - with our current "premier league quality" squad however, should we really be happy with squandering comfortable winning positions on a regular basis? Well, for me, I''m not comfortable with it at all, and it needs addressing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Rogue Baboon"]''If it continues as the season unfolds'' we are going to score 100ish goals, concede 70ish goals & have 95ish points

I don''t think for a second we will get close to any of those to be honest

Also if you remove the Newcastle & Birmingham games, we have conceded 1 per game (11 from 11) - this early in the season these sorts of stats are blown out of proportion by one or two results[/quote]You cannot play with individual results like that. The season is what it is and the table is the bible and after 13 games it doesn''t lie.Many are blind to the problem because we have been free scoring this season but it isn''t goals scored or even goals against that tells the tale its goal average. Our goal average is 1.4 and to be a real auto promotion prospect you need to settle at some close to a goal average of close to 2.Look at the years of history look at the stats, look at the facts. A team that scores 2 goals for every one conceded will win more games and garner more points than one that one that scores 1.5  for every 1 goal against. There is of course time for things to change but one thing is certain, they will have to if we want one of the top two places.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Right so forget reality and the ability to change and improve, let''s all just accept the fact we''re going to be play offs at best. After all Ricardo knows, it''s not like he changes his predictions depending on the latest result...is it?

You carry on being a pessimist (and no, you''re not a realist), stats even on this thread, can be manipulated anyway one wants. I''m happy being positive and that we will improve. Hell to improve on being 2nd in the league is a pretty positive starting point.

As for correcting problems by first admitting them, do you really think AN is just laughing off the sloppy goals we''re conceding? The wonderful thing about people and life is the ability to adapt and change. We haven''t made that change as of yet but I''m happy to be a Norwich fan wanting a change than a VIlla one needing a very different one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Fiery Zac"]Right so forget reality and the ability to change and improve, let''s all just accept the fact we''re going to be play offs at best. After all Ricardo knows, it''s not like he changes his predictions depending on the latest result...is it?

You carry on being a pessimist (and no, you''re not a realist), stats even on this thread, can be manipulated anyway one wants. I''m happy being positive and that we will improve. Hell to improve on being 2nd in the league is a pretty positive starting point.

As for correcting problems by first admitting them, do you really think AN is just laughing off the sloppy goals we''re conceding? The wonderful thing about people and life is the ability to adapt and change. We haven''t made that change as of yet but I''m happy to be a Norwich fan wanting a change than a VIlla one needing a very different one.[/quote]I''m glad that you are happy and indeed I am very happy with the position we find ourselves in despite being largely unconvincing. And I also have always been happy to be a NCFC fan even through the dark times. Just because we wear yellow and green glasses we shouldn''t allow that to blind us to the obvious.I also expect that AN is working on this problem and not just hoping that over time it might go away. If this isn''t the case then we are in trouble. I don''t pretend to know more than AN but I certainly expect him to know a lot more than me and rectify what is obvious to everyone.And yes, stats can be manipulated if you pick selectively by looking individually at goals scored or conceded. What cannot be denied is that a goal average of 1.44 won''t get us either of the top two spots. In the scoring department we are doing quite well enough, its the other end that''s the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But you can''t use one stat and ignore another. Our points per game average so far will see us comfortably in the top 2 regardless of how many goals we concede.

That and the fact we are still not playing to our best is why I simply don''t understand all the critisism. Yes it''s a concern but one to worry about if and when we don''t address it and our league position significantly suffers because of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Fiery Zac"]But you can''t use one stat and ignore another. Our points per game average so far will see us comfortably in the top 2 regardless of how many goals we concede.

That and the fact we are still not playing to our best is why I simply don''t understand all the critisism. Yes it''s a concern but one to worry about if and when we don''t address it and our league position significantly suffers because of it.[/quote]

With respect, once again you are picking out one statistic. Yes our points per game average of 2 will indeed be enough and we should be very happy with that bearing in mind a certain lack of conviction in our performances. What worries me is that our goal average indicates that this good fortune might not last. What ever else we can argue about it is futile to ignore that we have a problem conceding more goals than we should for our position in the table. It has certainly cost us 5 points so far (Newcastle/ Fulham). Whatever AN has done so far has not worked so yes, for me it remains a concern.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×