We are where we are despite the manager not because of him

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="hogesar"]Interestingly, everything Jim is saying we done wrong (sitting back, playing deeper) is everything AN had told them not to do.

Weird OP.[/quote]

I don''t believe him. He talks a good game at times when he knows he''s screwed up but i would be utterly amazed if that truly is what he said to them at half time. If it was then the players took it upon themselves to collectively disregard/ignore the manager which in itself is not a great sign.

[Tumbleweed 106]

Jim raises a very interesting point and FWIW I agree with the sentiment.

It is not a binary thing- i.e. not all AN and not all the players. There are obviously a whole range of factors which come into play. AN has a record as a manager based on how a bunch of individuals he manages perform. A certain percentage of that will be down almost directly to him, some will down to their individual ability, their mindsets, some down to nutrition, diet, mental preparation, coaching etc. Some will have a very small bearing, some a significant influence. If you do well at all those things you will increase your chances of a good result.

Just because when we lose, or get a draw which feels like one, does not make it all AN''s fault, and just because we win does not mean it is all AN''s positive influence.

The question is to what extent is AN responsible and Jim is simply picking up on the things we can see from our position which have a direct influence on the game- particularly team selection, formation and substitutions.

It may well be that we do very well in other factors but that the ones which AN is directly accountable for is holding us back and over-performance in those other dimensions could be the reason we are doing well. I can only go on what I see and I see too much tinkering (the decision to drop AP last night seemed bizarre to me), overly defensive approaches when in the lead and ineffective substitutions. What I don''t see and can''t assess is all the other stuff. But it IS possible that because we do have a decent bunch of players that that is what is carrying us through when combined with those other things I have mentioned.

However at the end of the day, as they say "it is a results business" and regardless of his own impact we are doing well so really this is only just an interesting academic debate and not an actual issue that needs sorting right now.

[Tumbleweed 106]

Oh and while on the point about the players maybe not doing what he asked (all of them? really?) then one of the key skills I think you need as a manager is impact and influence. If you can''t get your team to do what you want (regardless of the business you are in) as a manager that is a key skills shortage. Expect to see AN in a conference room sitting round a flip board with a bunch of others and a management consultant soon!!

[hogesar 9,618]

Haha, what Jim?

You don''t believe he said what he told the media he said?

Interesting! Do you not think that one of the players might just feel the need to mention it if that were the case?

The core group of these players have made the same mistakes under a multitude of managers so i''m surprised we''re suddenly second in the table ''despite'' of AN.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="hogesar"]Haha, what Jim?

You don''t believe he said what he told the media he said?

Interesting! Do you not think that one of the players might just feel the need to mention it if that were the case?

The core group of these players have made the same mistakes under a multitude of managers so i''m surprised we''re suddenly second in the table ''despite'' of AN.[/quote]It''s a different player every time.  Last night it was Dorrans I belive who gave the ball away for the second goal, but it happens to them all.  Simply speaking, we are not good enough at keeping the ball.   The late eighties we had a team who could keep thhe ball all day. It''s about time we learned to be patient when ahead and just be happy passing the ball around - but make sure we keep it simple. What we see is - simple mistake made........goal.  AN is in charge and he has to sort them out, but these goals that occur through a simple mistake are getting too common and have already set us back from where we could be....top.  

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Have a look (as well as listen) to AN''s press talk afterwards. He is incredibly frustrated, and speaks quicker than normal. He was one narked off cookie, and if you think that is because he has just realised he is not up to the job, or had forgotten a couple of key things in his team talk, then, with respect, I think people are naive.

[nutty nigel 7,513]

We had a better team in the late 80s Lakey. They were the best team I have seen in my 50 years. Of course they did better. You could measure any champs side ever against them and they''d fall short.

[Highland Canary 76]

Agreed OP. Another missed opportunity to upgrade as Bruce has been snapped up by Villa.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]Agreed OP. Another missed opportunity to upgrade as Bruce has been snapped up by Villa.[/quote]Just out of interest, can anyone tell me when was the last time an EFL club sacked their manager while in the automatic promotion positions?

[Indy 3,286]

Well those who still not convinced by AN, myself included will always look for fault.

He''s done a sterling job this season, we''ve lost once in ten games and yet we all feel it could have been that little bit better.

Then you''ll have those who have a love fest with AN who will say he''s young and still learning his trade! True to a degree too.

Can''t see why anyone would want him gone, there was a period in the first 5 games where he wasn''t getting much from the team, but he''s turned it round big time, good on AN.

[sgncfc 1,223]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]Tonight''s massively unconvincing performance yet another example.

Wrong team again yet despite being gifted a two goal lead I do not have a clue what he had instructed them to try and do in that second half other than it was the wrong thing.

We can probably go up under Neil but it will be because we have retained a squad of players that is too good for this league not because we have a good manager.[/quote]

I appreciate you are disappointed but you are talking garbage.

[Big Vince 318]

[quote user="Rogue Baboon"]You say wrong team, maybe you can clarify by saying what the right team was?[/quote]

The right team was all the defenders that weren''t bought during the summer. How about Bonucci and Shawcross at the back?

[Highland Canary 76]

The time to upgrade has already passed. We''ve missed both Warnock and Bruce. When will we learn?