what will come first xmas or a sacking?

[Barking Mad Barclay Boy 13]

i think a sacking, yes we are there or there a bouts still but is that good enough for us ? and is it good enough for jez?

our performances have been a bit lack lusture but just scraping the points at times which for me is good enough 3 points is 3 points but before long our luck was going to run out due to us not being able to defend. newcastle was clearing the turning point and to not have the bottle of keeping a 2-0 lead against fulham , losing against rotherham and losing a lead against leeds just isnt great lets all be honest!

brighton is no easy game and leeds again who will bring there 2thousand odd fans all up for it , i cant see past a point from the 2!

Alex is out of his depth in my opinion, he''s had half a season with us in the championship, a poor prem season and a bit of a hit and miss season so far.

how long will he last?

i give him till xmas unless things change

ps. i wanted him to succeed so much since he got us to wembley but his lack of experience shows and i think someone else who knows how to shut up shop would suit us more.

tin hat at the ready

[TIL 1010 4,103]

It will take the crowd to turn first and looking on all forms of social media and talking to people the signs are ominous.The doubters are becoming more significant in number but there will be denial from KTF.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Of course there are some Norwich City fans who don''t want the manager sacked after every bad run of form. If some fans wanted this, we''d have 7 or 8 managers each season.

[Mr Apples 1,253]

I think some of our fans have the emotional intelligence of 4 year olds (and that''s being harsh on 4 year olds).

Apples

[lake district canary 4,098]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]It will take the crowd to turn first and looking on all forms of social media and talking to people the signs are ominous.The doubters are becoming more significant in number but there will be denial from KTF.[/quote]4th in the league, one point off second place and people are getting ominously uppity about the manager?  If people are starting to want rid of the manager at the moment, then they need to get a grip.    It''s not a given that we will be in the top two - it''s insulting to other clubs to think we should be there - arrogant even.  Sure there are things that need improving, but we are there or thereabouts - but unless we start falling down below the play off places, the team is right where we want them to be - challenging for top two.

 

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

For once I 100% agree with lakey. When we''re down to 6th or 7th and drifting away from the top two will be the time for the club to consider a change in manager. I honestly think some fans are expecting us to be walking the league and winning 3 or four nil every week.

[Jim Smith 1,935]

People are getting ominously uppity about the manager because they can see for themselves that regardless of the league position/points tally the levels of performance on the pitch are not very good and certainly not at the levels that they should be. People also feel that things are starting to slide because the flaws that we were getting away with whilst scraping wins earlier in the season have not been addressed and are not costing us points (or in the case of last night our place in the cup) as many feared.

I honestly don''t know whether we should sack him or not at this point in time but I like to think that I have been very consistent over the last few years in judging our managers on whether I feel they are getting the best (or an acceptable level of) performance out of the players they have available to them rather than just being blindly led by league position. That was part of the problem with Hughton, people kept saying he should not be sacked unless we were in the bottom three despite the fact that it was clear performance levels were poor for a long time. If we wait until we at 8th and 10 points off the top two then we might not be able to recover that deficit. We have already let Villa pick up 5 points on us in the last week and I am convinced that they will have a run before the season is out.

[Jim Smith 1,935]

now costing us points!

[nutty nigel 6,551]

Let''s see what happens when the doubters become outers.

I can''t ever remember Worthy doubters. Only outers. Perhaps they''ve mellowed with are...

[nutty nigel 6,551]

Age!

[Mr Apples 1,253]

I wonder who will go first...Alex, Pep or Jose?

Apples

[SwindonCanary 448]

Christmas always comes too quick !

[Clint 221]

I personally think that our league position masks over the poor performances. Of our 8 wins, 7 have come against the bottom 8 teams I believe, with only Bristol City, the exception.

All of the teams we''ve played in the top half, aside from BC, have taken points off us. Albeit not in the league, Leeds even got a draw and played 25% of the game with 10 men.

Using this logic for the rest of the season implies that we will struggle massively when playing the better teams unless the level of performance improves.

[Capt. Pants 3,248]

[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]For once I 100% agree with lakey. When we''re down to 6th or 7th and drifting away from the top two will be the time for the club to consider a change in manager. [/quote]

That''s my stance as well. And could well come before Christmas.

[It's Character Forming 1,101]

[quote user="Capt. Pants"][quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]For once I 100% agree with lakey. When we''re down to 6th or 7th and drifting away from the top two will be the time for the club to consider a change in manager. [/quote] That''s my stance as well. And could well come before Christmas.[/quote]

 

After being at the game last night, I''ve definitely moved into the doubter camp.  The problem was that we started the game completely in control, had plenty of chances and could have been 3 or 4 up by 30 minutes.  Then we started to look fragile, they had a goal disallowed, and it was no real surprise that they equalised.  Extra time was pretty much a repeat with the embarrassment factor that we were playing against 10 men.  I (and the people around me when we left) were just bemused that we could end up failing to win that game, when we looked so much better than them.

 

This is a pattern which has gone on for quite a few games now.  Our 10 outfield players looked comfortably better than their Leeds equivalents, we got the early goal which is always key.  But we failed again to close it out.  So I now have reluctantly concluded AN probably isn''t the manager who''s going to do it for us this season and it''s time to change so the replacement has a solid starting point and enough of the season to work with.

[It's Character Forming 1,101]

PS I don''t think this is arrogant - it''s not a given that we will be in the top 2, that''s a big reason we need to change the manager I think !  But there have just been too many games now where we''ve looked much the better side, have got in front, but have failed to win.  And it''s reasonable to expect our team to win, most of the time, when we go in front, especially against weaker teams.

[ron obvious 1,400]

Something''s clearly wrong, & unfortunately it seems to be getting worse with no sign of it getting better. We have the players we have, & i''m wondering if a different manager wouldn''t be better at improving their performances.

We look so good at the start of games that our subsequent deterioration looks incomprehensible. Whether we score early or not, things rapidly go downhill & we get out muscled & out thought by teams who seemed to have a fraction of our ability at the start. Our vulnerability to the long punt is particularly galling.

I''m not sure Alex is very tactically aware. Is there any manager free at the moment who is better? I''m not sure about that either. I''m still really hoping he can pull promotion out of the bag, but something needs to happen.

[BroadstairsR 1,690]

For AN to be sacked it we will have to be in a situation whereby it is totally clear that he is not the man to take us up this season.

We are along way from that situation, IMO.

Should he narrowly fail to achieve this, even by the last kick of the season, then I would prefer a.n. other be given the job for next.

In the meantime the Board would be amiss if they were not keeping a wary eye on possible replacements ... at any time.

[Jim Smith 1,935]

ICF

I think you could also say that the same pattern was evident in some of the games we did win as well. I know its maybe a bit harsh because we did hang on but in particular against Cardiff and Wigan we ended up clinging on in games we could and should have won comfortably. That''s why there have even been a few moans on here after wins from some posters because the performances have not been convincing at all.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]People are getting ominously uppity about the manager because they can see for themselves that regardless of the league position/points tally the levels of performance on the pitch are not very good and certainly not at the levels that they should be. People also feel that things are starting to slide because the flaws that we were getting away with whilst scraping wins earlier in the season have not been addressed and are not costing us points (or in the case of last night our place in the cup) as many feared.

I honestly don''t know whether we should sack him or not at this point in time but I like to think that I have been very consistent over the last few years in judging our managers on whether I feel they are getting the best (or an acceptable level of) performance out of the players they have available to them rather than just being blindly led by league position. That was part of the problem with Hughton, people kept saying he should not be sacked unless we were in the bottom three despite the fact that it was clear performance levels were poor for a long time. If we wait until we at 8th and 10 points off the top two then we might not be able to recover that deficit. We have already let Villa pick up 5 points on us in the last week and I am convinced that they will have a run before the season is out.[/quote]

This ^^

We cling on and perform naively. In this division we should be bossing the majority of teams for prolonged periods and showing a little basic footballing ability in defense. Basically demonstrating the basics with added quality on top.

[lake district canary 4,098]

There are two things here. Sure we could score more goals and get ahead in games three or four nil and then the odd goal let in doesn''t matter.   Sure we could be better defensively - but then we probably wouldn''t score as many goals and people would be moaning about the style and negativity of the football and we would still not win every game. The happy medium - for us - probably doesn''t exist.  We have very good players - but they are not without faults - if they were we wouldn''t have got relegated in the first place.  The manager?  Can only do so much.  Nearly every goal against has come through some kind of mistake or switching off from a player.   The players need to sort that out as much as the manager.  This isn''t just an AN thing - it is endemic through the team/squad and has been for a number of years - probably through being in the premier league and getting slightly punch drunk.............that is what being in the premier league does to clubs like ours - we are overun too often and that can affect players long term.  We are still on track - it''s a bumpy road, but if it was too easy, it wouldn''t be so worthwhile.  We are not Newcastle or even Villa. Thank goodness. We are what we are. A club that has to fight for everything.  The fight goes on....I sincerely hope, with AN in charge. 

[Highland Canary 72]

Look at the impact of Bruce and Warnock. Two choices for the board: continue with the ''we''re punching above our weight for little old Norwich, we should be grateful to be playing in the top half of the chumps at the moment'' strategy (let''s not worry that the parachute payments evaporate next year because we have assets in the form of the Murphys, Klose, Pritchard, Maddison which can be disposed of); or, alternatively, invest in an experienced chump manager and seek external equity to increase our competiveness.

[The young canary 0]

I think he is a dead man walking it''s just a matter of time. I just hope for the sake of the club it is well before Xmas before we fall to far behind

[93vintage 16]

Alex Neil has made mistakes, but remember that he''s also inherited circumstances where we need to rejuvinate the squad with relatively little money.It''s a tight situation where he''s having to juggle trying to play the right way, replace an aging team, get promoted or stay up. It''s no surprise to me since McNally has left behind an awful mess for Alex Neil to try to work within.Some of the criticism about how we''re playing, tactics etc is justified, but some of it is coming from an old fashioned point of view about how to play football, a symptom of which is the laughable calls for Lambert to return.I hope the club stick with Alex Neil as everyone tries to work through the mess McNally and Bowkett have left behind.The board have been the root cause of the bigger problems, not the manager.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,236]

For me AN is not brilliant but a lot better than many other options for a club our size. He is learning his trade.

The board has been the problem for some time- and it is harsh to blame Neil alone given the pathetic nature of recent transfer windows.

[norfolkngood 793]

the problem is we don''t need just a championship manager

we need a manager that will get us up and then progress into a PL manager

thats where AN fails in my eyes

thats what i hoped for when we got him in have we found a gem here then he messed it up in the premier proving he was not up to the job

so we now find ourselves in the champs again what happens if we DO go up ??

he has a very strong squad is it his management that has got us where we are in the league or the players ??

i think it s mostly having one of the best squads that has got us there and with a better manager we would be playing better with a system that suits

i am not saying we should win every game not even newcastle will do that

but to many mistakes throwing games away is not a sign of a up and coming great manager that we need to go up to the next level

will they sack him no chance not when he is around the top of table

should they to progress i would say yes !

[ricardo 6,342]

[quote user="The young canary"]I think he is a dead man walking it''s just a matter of time. [/quote]You could say the same about any manager at almost any club. Results will determine whether this is the cliff edge or just a dip in the road.

[Clint 221]

93V, I understand that in EPL terms we have relatively little money but in EFL terms Neil has spent an absolute fortune. He''s had the most money to spend of any manager in our history and whilst he''s signed players that on paper, should improve the team, performances just have not been there.

So either he''s signing the wrong players or he just can''t get them to play at the levels to justify the amounts spent.

[93vintage 16]

Clint, I think AN has switched style a bit too often, particularly when we started getting hammered in the PL. We were quite tight and defensive when he took over because there was so little room for error. In the PO semi first leg against Ipswich we played extremely defensively, so he is capable of shutting teams down.Changing coach probably hasn''t helped wrt consistency, but I think he needs a fair few more games to find the balance. I thought we played it around very nicely at times vs Leeds, so I don''t think we''re a million miles away. A few tactical changes, particularly when we''re ahead, could pay dividends.I think we''re seeing the first full season where AN is trying to set things down in style terms, where the situation isn''t quite as tight as staying in the PL or climbing from 8th place (or whatever) in January. Whether it works as intended is another matter!

[westcoastcanary 173]

ICF wrote: "But there have just been too many games now where we''ve looked much the better side, have got in front, but have failed to win.  And it''s reasonable to expect our team to win, most of the time, when we go in front, especially against weaker teams."

 

Agreed, but why then conclude that the manager is at fault? This isn''t new, it''s been a constant over several seasons, under different managers. You yourself have pointed out that AN has shown himself to have the tactical nous (against ''Boro in the POF for example, or e.g. away at the Etihad, in beating Everton in the EFL, et.al). We also know that prior to the Forest game AN had the team focus almost exclusively in training on addressing these issues. But apparently to no consistent avail. The most obvious inference to draw surely is that it''s primarily the players, not the manager, at fault. Why does it continue to be taken for granted that we have the best squad in the Championship bar Newcastle when the shortcomings of these players are demonstrated game after game? And as regards arrogance, is there any more appropriate word for the idea that "the fans know best"?