Ray 111 Posted October 28, 2016 Rock the Boat,At last, a poster that I can debate with who makes a reasoned argument, rather than one who thinks he knows why I only allude to stuff at times when he does not, of that I can assure you.If as a group you would rather I didn''t ''hint'' at things then I am prepared not to because I don''t come on here to have a row or belittle other people''s views. I may not agree with them and I may say so, but normally in a calm and polite manner, in full acceptance we all have opinions which we believe prove us right.My motivation for posting is to do my best to share ''things'' with other passionate NCFC fans, if this is causing angst, then whilst I understand their feelings are controlled by them and them alone, I would prefer not to be considered a catalyst, so I shall desist if that is the consensus, if it is not all I can suggest to the others is, quite simply, do not read my posts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chesney Hawkes 0 Posted October 28, 2016 Everybody. Look at Ray. Wel done.Now go back to your ill-informed lives. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,531 Posted October 28, 2016 [quote user="Ray"]Rock the Boat,At last, a poster that I can debate with who makes a reasoned argument, rather than one who thinks he knows why I only allude to stuff at times when he does not, of that I can assure you.If as a group you would rather I didn''t ''hint'' at things then I am prepared not to because I don''t come on here to have a row or belittle other people''s views. I may not agree with them and I may say so, but normally in a calm and polite manner, in full acceptance we all have opinions which we believe prove us right.My motivation for posting is to do my best to share ''things'' with other passionate NCFC fans, if this is causing angst, then whilst I understand their feelings are controlled by them and them alone, I would prefer not to be considered a catalyst, so I shall desist if that is the consensus, if it is not all I can suggest to the others is, quite simply, do not read my posts.[/quote]Ray, I have sent you a PM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 28, 2016 Ray, read your last post ( as it were ). It''s not one of your best!Look, I actually value what you have posted in the past and am interested in your perspective. I know there are people " in the know" and I don''t want to see them discouraged, I am also aware that there are regular posters who dislike someone who has that sort of knowledge usurping their own blogs and posts. But, the way you are posting now is looking a bit dodgy. IMHO you should carry on revealing your info and let people make their own mind up. I am certainly interested in what you have to say. But if you get involved with the likes of Chopsy and sadly Duncan your points will be lost.Keep going buddy but my advice, for what it''s worth, would be to avoid the confrontation👍Onwards and upward Ray. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
93vintage 16 Posted October 28, 2016 Keep posting the gossip Ray. If people don''t like it then tough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted October 28, 2016 The point for me is that that we are being drip fed "inside information" but only through Ray''s personal prism. Does Ray come over as the epitome of the disinterested spectator, the witness without a personal interest in the matters being hinted at? Not to me he doesn''t, and it''s for that reason I think we should ask him to stop. To repeat once again a famous comment on Wittgenstein''s Tractatus, "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent -- and you can''t whistle it either". This is nothing personal against Ray; it''s a matter of principle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 28, 2016 It''s an Internet forum for goodness sake WC...First Ammendment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray 111 Posted October 28, 2016 Nice quote Westcoast,Although I''m not sure this is the context in which he meant it, but bow to your superior knowledge here, however I get what you meant, I think!?!?Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted October 28, 2016 [quote user="VanWink"]It''s an Internet forum for goodness sake WC...First Ammendment[/quote]So you think anything goes on an internet forum? No, of course you don''t. So the question is what goes and what doesn''t, or where you draw the line. My rule of thumb is that you don''t behave any differently on an internet forum to how you''d behave in any other public context. What''s yours? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted October 28, 2016 @Ray The context couldn''t be more different, but the words speak for themselves [:D] I take it you''d like ice with your drink? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 28, 2016 I was referring to free speech WC, not anything goes.Most of us have enough common sense I would hope to have a pretty good stab at what would and wouldn''t be acceptable to post on a forum like this. Rumours about what''s going on at the club would surely be within bounds, attributable remarks that may be perceived as derogatory I would say not so.Ray is posting pretty much rumour, he''s not attributing it to anyone which is very wise, it''s fodder for discussion, what''s wrong with that buddy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted October 28, 2016 I''d sooner read Ray''s rumours to your stirring Winky. But that''s just my choice. I would never call into question your right to stir the sh1t all over this forum but, as I''ve said before, you should be made to lick the spoon.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 28, 2016 You''re a good guy Nutty, all I have is respect for you and what you do. 👍 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted October 28, 2016 Oh right. I take it all back then....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chesney Hawkes 0 Posted October 28, 2016 Don''t worry Winky. True prophets are never recognised until after their time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 28, 2016 How many accounts are you posting under tonight? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chesney Hawkes 0 Posted October 28, 2016 The same number as you, dear. Maybe one less. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray 111 Posted October 28, 2016 Ice, ice, how very dare you sir!! Out of context again Westcoast!As I said, I get your meaning, I think, so therefore I am, I think. Enjoy the rest of your day.Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 261 Posted October 28, 2016 I struggle with anyones opinion that "the problem" is either solely the manager or players.It is clear that the manager has made mistakes and has stated he is looking to learn, hence the addition of the extremely well respected Irvine to the back room. However it is also clear that the players are also under performing. Just as they have for previous managers. A clear out of just the manager simply wont be enough. Any sea change has to include the comfortable core of this squad being moved on so a change of mentality can take place. Beyond wes there are too few players with the managers drive and hunger for success Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 28, 2016 King Crimson wrote the following post at 28/10/2016 8:44 PM:The same number as you, dear. Maybe one less. You''ve got some front I''ll give you that Chopsy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy_Bones 441 Posted October 28, 2016 ZLF,The problem there being that to change the necessary players is likely to require funds well out of our reach.Personally I''d only keep the following:RuddyMcGovernKlosePintoTettey (will be replaced by Thompson in the next year or two IMHO)DorransHowsonMurphy x2CanosPritchardWesJeromeThompsonGodfreyI''d also add Brady to that if he can actually bother to play for us like he does for Ireland (and has done on sporadic occasions here since signing).That means I''d be looking to replace:WhittakerOlssonMartinBassongTurnerNaismithJarvisJonesMulumbuLaffertyBennettJury is out on Oliveira and Morris.So that''s 11 players to potentially replace, ideally with better than what we already have, and even at 5mil per player (which is not much in the current market), you''re talking 50mil+ to acheive this, and frankly we don''t have that sort of money to throw around.So whilst I agree that it''s not just players or managers, we can replace the manager relatively easily and somewhat cheaply in comparison to what''s needed on the squad side, but without the squad side to accompany that change, it''s almost irrelevant... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJP 79 Posted October 28, 2016 Why get rid of Olsson? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 261 Posted October 28, 2016 I don''t disagree it''s a large undertaking, esp as I would add ruddy, dorrans howson and tettey to the list of time to move on group. The side is feeling that stale.Tettey is typical of this group, not sure he wanted to be here and it''s showing in performances.I would add McGovern to the jury''s out group.It''s always cheaper to change the manager, but are we really treating the disease or symptoms? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted October 28, 2016 ZLF wrote: "It''s always cheaper to change the manager, but are we really treating the disease or symptoms?"Good rhetorical question [:D]. It''s not just cheaper, it''s quick -- until you add up all the time (and money) wasted by sacking manager after manager when you could be addressing the real problem ................ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted October 28, 2016 [quote user="westcoastcanary"]ZLF wrote: "It''s always cheaper to change the manager, but are we really treating the disease or symptoms?"Good rhetorical question [:D]. It''s not just cheaper, it''s quick -- until you add up all the time (and money) wasted by sacking manager after manager when you could be addressing the real problem ................[/quote]Bill Punton once said that there comes a point where every manager gets stale. He made the point that at the standard Norwich play it''s far cheaper to change the manager thean change a load of the players. Whilst that''s true I''m far from convinced we are at that point yet. 27 points from 14 games a sacking would see our club ridiculed. And rightly so. What manager would want to work under those rules?Of course in the past a new manager meant players out and players in. These days it doesn''t. It just means a new manager gets to shuffle the same pack previous managers have been shuffling. The players coming in January will already be identified with work happening behind the scenes. Much the same can be said for next summer with two lists depending on what league we end up in already underway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,657 Posted October 28, 2016 Who would ridicule us for sacking the manager Nutty ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted October 28, 2016 Well if we were another club on 27 points from 14 games on all past form you would Tilly... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJP 79 Posted October 28, 2016 With the game the way it is these days I don''t think it would be particularly shocking.Not that I would care what others thought anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,657 Posted October 28, 2016 If only you could ever look at the big picture Nutty because 27 from 14 is very flattering the way we have stuttered along this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites