11 days to go and no sign of activity

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

We do on things on the cheap because we have a sensible board that wishes the club to remain sustainable. Would you rather us be throwing money around like confetti and risking the long-term financial future of the club? Ipswich. Leeds. Forest. Bolton. Charlton. QPR. Birmingham. Blackburn. There''s a list of clubs that have spent above their means in recent years and are in a far worse position than we currently they are.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

"Let''s look at it this way. Imagine I am working in purchasing for a car manufacturer and on May 15th I am given the responsibility to purchase 3 tonnes of leather for seats in the new top end model vehicle being built and I am been told I have a deadline of say, August 31st, just to pick a random date. I know full well that the cars cannot be rolled off the production line and into the showrooms without this leather and it is my responsibility to make it happen. So I approach a leather makers and enquire about prices, and I am given a price that I feel is too expensive and I baulk at it and move onto another supplier and go through the same process over and over, about 300 times or so. In the mean time our competitors come along behind me, and are willing to pay the price that the leather manufactures have set for their stock and as my deadline approaches it becomes clear that there is no longer enough leather available on the market to meet the requirements that I have been given. My deadline passes without a single tonne of leather being purchased and I go to my bosses and say "I did my best, I was unable to procure the leather for our new vehicle at a price I was willing to pay for it. I know that we won''t be able to manufacture our new top end car, but there is always next time."I would be held responsible for not sourcing the leather and I very much doubt that I would have a next time. But this seems to be exactly how Norwich City work when doing their transfer business."

 

Imagine??!?......you seem to know a lot about leather car seats, I imagining this ''is'' what you do??

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Iwan''s big toe-

Worst analogy ever.

Firstly, leather is not a unique product and it is very easy to set a value for it. Strikers are unique ''products'' each one is different so like for like comparisons are incredibly difficult.

Secondly, the car manufacturer would know how much profit they are expecting from selling the cars. Their final income is pretty much a known, within a small variable. Norwich have very little idea how much ''added value'' a striker will bring to the club - so it makes budgeting much harder. If Norwich knew, within a small variable, that spending £20m on a striker would bring an increase to revenue of over £100m then they would of course bid that. They can''t know this, so have to budget around that.

Thirdly, leather companies don''t tend to be in competition with car manufacturers, unlike Norwich who are trying to buy strikers from clubs who consider them a rival. Also the clubs don''t really want to sell Norwich their strikers, unlike the fictional leather manufacturer you have made up.

Fourthly, leather doesn''t tend to have much of a say in where it is sold to - footballers tend to care a lot more about it.

Not everything is someones fault. As I said, the club could be doing everything right but just finding the clubs of their preferred targets are either making unreasonable demands or the players are being difficult. I imagine there are several cases of clubs saying ''yes we will sell him to you, but once we get in our target''.

To equate the transfer market to buying leather is laughable.

[Donkey dangler 0]

[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]We do on things on the cheap because we have a sensible board that wishes the club to remain sustainable. Would you rather us be throwing money around like confetti and risking the long-term financial future of the club? Ipswich. Leeds. Forest. Bolton. Charlton. QPR. Birmingham. Blackburn. There''s a list of clubs that have spent above their means in recent years and are in a far worse position than we currently they are.[/quote]

Money is not the issue.

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]It is only right Norwich look for value. There is no one around to bail the club out if they take a massive risk and it all goes wrong.

We don''t and won''t ever know the ins-and-outs of the McCormack deal or how aggressively Norwich pursued it. But if the figures bounded about are correct then Villa will be paying £21m for Ross over the course of the deal. I think it is only right Norwich didn''t commit themselves to that. You have to set a limit somewhere. I also suspect that Villa would have kept upping their offer even if Norwich had matched that deal.

Luckily, the very next day the club spent £8m on a 23 year old who was among the best players in the division a couple of seasons ago. Great player, no gambling needed.[/quote]Great player indeed but not a striker.Not a gamble ? His injury record''s patchy so that''s something of a gamble. Football is all about gambling everytime a player is bought or sold. We just don''t seem to gamble enough and if we aren''t prepared to do so we may well look forward to another long stint away from the Premier League

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Iwans big toe-

Worst analogy ever.

Firstly, leather is not a unique product and it is very easy to set a value for it. Strikers are unique ''products'' each one is different so like for like comparisons are incredibly difficult.

Secondly, the car manufacturer would know how much profit they are expecting from selling the cars. Their final income is pretty much a known, within a small variable. Norwich have very little idea how much ''added value'' a striker will bring to the club - so it makes budgeting much harder. If Norwich knew, within a small variable, that spending £20m on a striker would bring an increase to revenue of over £100m then they would of course bid that. They can''t know this, so have to budget around that.

Thirdly, leather companies don''t tend to be in competition with car manufacturers, unlike Norwich who are trying to buy strikers from clubs who consider them a rival. Also the clubs don''t really want to sell Norwich their strikers, unlike the fictional leather manufacturer you have made up.

Fourthly, leather doesn''t tend to have much of a say in where it is sold to - footballers tend to care a lot more about it.

Not everything is someones fault. As I said, the club could be doing everything right but just finding the clubs of their preferred targets are either making unreasonable demands or the players are being difficult. I imagine there are several cases of clubs saying ''yes we will sell him to you, but once we get in our target''.

To equate the transfer market to buying leather is laughable.[/quote]I think you''re missing the point Bethnal. It doesn''t matter what I used as an analogy, the fact is that there are people employed by Norwich City to get transfers over the line. We desperately need 2 or 3 strikers and this has been known this since the end of last season. As of right now staff at the club have had 75 days to get new players in and with only 10 days before the end of the transfer window there is not even a hint of a striker in Asda''s carpark.So I will ask again, if we don''t blame the people who are paid to sign new players, who should we blame?

[Katie Borkins 1]

Thatcher?

The Boogie?

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]So I will ask again, if we don''t blame the people who are paid to sign new players, who should we blame?[/quote]

We blame the system - the transfer window, the agents holding all the cards, the clubs who don''t really want to sell unless they have to, the players wanting to go to bigger clubs .No real blame can be attached to the club itself  - unless you are one of those who think it should spend money it doesn''t have, or risk the club''s financial stability by gambling spending way over the odds for one player.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Your analogy suggested Norwich could just go and get a striker like a bag of leather.

I laid out why transfers aren''t like that at all. Do you believe the club can just phone up another club and say ''we are buying a striker - doesn''t matter which one, how much?''

I''ve also said previously in this thread that no one is necessarily to blame as factors aren''t entirely in their control and even if there is someone to blame it is impossible to know who from the outside as we have no idea what is causing the problems.

Running around finger pointing and screaming ''it''s your fault'', when not knowing the facts is entirely counter productive.

[curious yellow 184]

Forget about a striker, I am now more worried about panic buying some shoes and a jacket before the leather deadline.

[OldRobert 38]

I''m confused now, are we going to buy some shoes and leather jackets instead of a striker or two?[:D]

[Katie Borkins 1]

We should re-sign Nick Tanner.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

ok as others will know i have a little knowledge what goes on with the buying at carrow road

Tony spearing and Alex Neil are in charge of recruitment

Tony spearing has worked with a vast Network of foreign scouts when at WBA

so Tony identifies the targets and tells AN

AN then decides if the player is what is needed

the board have set budgets and if these players are within budget they will bid e.g fee / wages

Now AN sets the price to which of his budget he wishes to spend

E.G CEO phones neil and says you can have ross mc but he will cost 12 mil do you wish to use that out of your budget ?

AN then says yes or no

The manager has to set the price of a player so he can work within his budget

a CEO does not know prices of players or how much a manager rates a player it is down to the manager who stays who goes and who comes in

and so it should be !

[Fuzzar 1,702]

Going back to the leather, IBT. Just out of interest, what was the best price per tonne you were quoted?

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]So I will ask again, if we don''t blame the people who are paid to sign new players, who should we blame?[/quote]

We blame the system - the transfer window, the agents holding all the cards, the clubs who don''t really want to sell unless they have to, the players wanting to go to bigger clubs .No real blame can be attached to the club itself  - unless you are one of those who think it should spend money it doesn''t have, or risk the club''s financial stability by gambling spending way over the odds for one player.

[/quote]Lakey, all ninety two clubs have to work within the same system, we aren''t the only club. Most of them have successfully identified transfer targets and got them in. It seem that the people responsible for that at Norwich City are incapable of doing this, which what they get paid for. So if someone is not fulfilling the role they get given, what one would imagine is, a sizeable salary for this role, why should they not shoulder the blame. After all if someone was working in any job, for any company and they didn''t do the job they were paid to do, regardless of outside influences, you wouldn''t expect them face consequences and be held responsible. Why should it be different just because someone works for Norwich City?

[Alex Moss 2,165]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Your analogy suggested Norwich could just go and get a striker like a bag of leather.

I laid out why transfers aren''t like that at all. Do you believe the club can just phone up another club and say ''we are buying a striker - doesn''t matter which one, how much?''

I''ve also said previously in this thread that no one is necessarily to blame as factors aren''t entirely in their control and even if there is someone to blame it is impossible to know who from the outside as we have no idea what is causing the problems.

Running around finger pointing and screaming ''it''s your fault'', when not knowing the facts is entirely counter productive.[/quote]

Spot on Bethnal 👍

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]So I will ask again, if we don''t blame the people who are paid to sign new players, who should we blame?[/quote]

We blame the system - the transfer window, the agents holding all the cards, the clubs who don''t really want to sell unless they have to, the players wanting to go to bigger clubs .No real blame can be attached to the club itself  - unless you are one of those who think it should spend money it doesn''t have, or risk the club''s financial stability by gambling spending way over the odds for one player.

[/quote]Lakey, all ninety two clubs have to work within the same system, we aren''t the only club. Most of them have successfully identified transfer targets and got them in. It seem that the people responsible for that at Norwich City are incapable of doing this, which what they get paid for. So if someone is not fulfilling the role they get given, what one would imagine is, a sizeable salary for this role, why should they not shoulder the blame. After all if someone was working in any job, for any company and they didn''t do the job they were paid to do, regardless of outside influences, you wouldn''t expect them face consequences and be held responsible. Why should it be different just because someone works for Norwich City?

[/quote]Obviously I mean you would expect them to face consequences.The other thing I would draw attention is that in the last two transfer windows we have allowed four strikers to leave the club (Hooper, Grabban, RVW and Mbokani) before signing replacements. Yet people claim one of the reasons we can''t sign strikers is that the selling clubs can''t find a replacement. If other clubs refuse to sell players without having an alternative, why are the people at Norwich not using a similar thought process?

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="Alex "][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Your analogy suggested Norwich could just go and get a striker like a bag of leather.

I laid out why transfers aren''t like that at all. Do you believe the club can just phone up another club and say ''we are buying a striker - doesn''t matter which one, how much?''

I''ve also said previously in this thread that no one is necessarily to blame as factors aren''t entirely in their control and even if there is someone to blame it is impossible to know who from the outside as we have no idea what is causing the problems.

Running around finger pointing and screaming ''it''s your fault'', when not knowing the facts is entirely counter productive.[/quote]

Spot on Bethnal 👍[/quote]

[The young canary 0]

The point Bethnal is missing is that we have none since mid May we needed a striker we are now approaching the end of the window and nothing. It has been a c.ock up just like last summer.

The lessons haven''t been learned and McNally is not at fault. It comes down to the Stowmarket 2

[Essjayess 307]

Bethnal you mentioned about last day of windows and Jerome coming in at such a time, well yes that worked out.  But im mostly interested in more recent times, namely since Alex took over. 3 Full windows he has had come this time next week, and he and the club have failed to sign a single permanent striker. Talking of final day of the window, i dont forget  last summers final day, with Gayle allegedly in a City hotel awaiting the  move, only for Pardew to stop it on the day. Thats the kind of thing that happens if you leave it to the end, weve had since May to identify targets and make our move, more than 3 full months, many of our rivals have succeded getting their targets but again we have not.Yes there is always many targets that can fall thru, but Alex has seemingly done fine signing permanent midfielders / defenders, so why this complete 100% fail thru 3 long windows?. Sorry but a week to go and Alex is just hoping and praying?...not good enough, NCFC could be blundering massively financially as a club, because our beloved Cam Jam will run himself to a standstill long before this season ends, and results will absolutely suffer.

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

10.5 days now.

Each day when I click onto this site it is anticipation of seeing the name of that prominent new striker and seeing some indication that he has been signed rather than just being one of the (many) suggestions put forward in hope rather than anything else.

It''s getting a bit frustrating, but I won''t give up.

Any day now then.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Essjayess -

I don''t understand why people keep talking about ''AN has never signed a striker on a permanent deal''.

Norwich didn''t need a striker during his first window and in the other two he brought in players on loan. Mbokani was pretty good, while Bamford was not. It is preferable to bring in permanents but as long as the player is at the club and available surely that is good enough in the short term.

I can''t think of many strikers rivals have signed who I feel Norwich have massively missed out on, apart from McCormack and Gayle, and that seems a simple case of club with more money flexing their might. Tammy Abraham from Chelsea on loan would have been good, but a gamble over a season.

It doesn''t matter how earlier targets are identified, selling clubs will only do business on their own term (unless there are extenuating circumstances).

Obviously not an ideal situation, but neither is signing someone who is no good and then having to try and buy a striker again in January, but with less money. Especially if settling early for an average player means missing out on a great one who becomes available later in the window.

Alex said he was praying for striker today - but he also said he was certain he would get one. I suspect the club has some options on players which they will activate should other targets fall through. Which is what happened with Mbokani last season - he wasn''t first choice but once other targets fell through Norwich finalised an earlier negotiated deal.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="nutty nigel"]We''ll of course each individual who booed will have had a reason. I''m just repeating that the dressingroom was surprised to be booed off at the end of the game.

Same thing happened two years ago then everyone celebrated at Wembley as though they''d been on board all season....[/quote]I can''t help but wonder if you have always had this attitude. Did you steadfastly display it by refusing to criticise anyone at the club when Bob the builder was milking every last penny available in the early nineties? Did you continue to hold firm to your beliefs that the people in charge were doing their best back then whilst getting on you little soap box and intimating anyone that didn''t blindly back those in power don''t truly support the club? Or have only "been on board" since 1996 because you are a staunch Labour voter and proud owner of every cookery book ever printed by New Crane Publishing?

[/quote]

This post just sums up the modern day namby pamby spoilt brat fans that form part of todays support.

You want to talk about how we did things in years gone by? 50 years ago when I first went the bone of contention was selling any good forwards we had and replacing them with worse ones. Ron Davies to Laurie Sheffield springs to mind but of course we also signed Alan Black. This gave rise to terrace chanting of "Black Is Black, We Want Ron Davies Back" Of course there was also the disgraceful "Zigger Zigger Zigger Watling is a ******"! Now that really was a case of empty vessels making most noise and as a 9 year old I didn''t understand it at all. But having said all that everyone knew what the fans were complaining about instead of this mindless booing of the team at the end of the match. Then when the late great Sir Arthur sold Kevin Reeves to pay for the River End the banners said "No Reeves, No Future, No Fans" and subsequent chanting was to Sir Arthur and to the point. Everyone knew why fans were disgruntled and their was no senseless booing of the players unless they deserved it. Then with Big Fat Bob people were left in no doubt "Where''s The Money Gone You Fat Barsteward" and "Chase Out" which was short blunt and to the point. Not this mindless booing of the team which could mean anything.

Now why are you guys so shy now IBT? Why are fans sooooo timid? Is it because you can mindlessly boo at the end and then go home, spin three times on your computer chair and become a warrior? You lot who boo the players when you''re problems lie elsewhere could learn a lot from history. Thanks for bringing this up IBT[Y]

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

Why don''t we just wait and judge things when the window closes?

It seems mad to me how so many supporters are eager to castigate people who are working tirelessly to recruit talented new players.

Doses of patience and realism are needed all round. This is real life not a computer game.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

With the cutting edge the squad has we have done very well to be where we are in the league at the moment. If we get a couple of quality signings then we can kick on for an automatic. If we do not or make another series of poor signings then we will be fortunate to get top 6 and the knives will be out with no excuses. To be fair the options are limited. Mc Cormack really was poor value at 30 years of age, assombalonga is good but very injury prone. Wells would be my pick and possibly Grigg the lad at wigan who looks both hungry and effective

[king canary 7,580]

@bethnal

Sorry but the ''Jerome arrived on the last week of the window'' reasoning doesn''t really wash. It ignores the fact that we''d already signed two players who could play up front that summer (Grabban and Lafferty) and we still had a proven championship goal scorer in Hooper. Jerome was the cherry on top of a strong strike force- right now we don''t even have the cake.

You keep mentioning fans thinking we exist in a bubble, I don''t think that''s really true. I think fans see other clubs up and down the Championship signings strikers that could do a job here while we''ve (for the second summer running) failed to address the key hole in our squad despite having 3 months to get it sorted.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Perhaps Neil Adams was far better than he ever got the credit for....

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

King Canary -

I mention Jerome because he only became available late in the window for a low price, and it is indicative of how leaving it late isn''t always a bad thing. Many deals that would be impossible at the beginning of August become possible at the end of it.

Who are the strikers ''up and down the championship'' who fans here would accept are the level Norwich need? As I''ve said on Gayle and McCormack would be seen as losses to direct rivals.

When I talk about living in a bubble, it is more the notion that some fans believe Norwich are just dragging their feet and could sign a striker tomorrow if they pulled their finger out.

I''m under to illusion that the club don''t need a striker or it it would be okay to muddle along until January. But getting in a low quality striker doesn''t help things and makes them worse in the longer term

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]So I will ask again, if we don''t blame the people who are paid to sign new players, who should we blame?[/quote]

.......No real blame can be attached to the club itself  - unless you are one of those who think it should spend money it doesn''t have, or risk the club''s financial stability by gambling spending way over the odds for one player.

[/quote]LDC - I''m not saying we should put the house on red and then watch the club fall off the cliff when it comes up black but just show a bit more ambition please. With £40m in parachute payments arriving this season and with balanced books are we seriously to accept that, within reason, we can''t sign a decent striker or two??As a club rightly or wrongly believing we belong at the top level that seems a pretty small-minded attitude to take.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

What I''m getting fed up is the hordes of fans, many being middle aged men, behaving like spoilt brats because the club hasn''t bought them a striker.

There is absolutely no point in bringing in a striker that isn''t different or better than Jerome. The type of striker we need, that being a physical presence with an eye for goal, and some pace to boot, are in seriously short supply in today''s game. Can any Norwich fans realistically name four or five names that would fit our system? I doubt it. And clubs will know what we are looking for, and hike up the price knowing we might be getting desperate.

There''s buying a striker to improve the squad, and then there''s just buying for the sake of it.

It really isn''t just as simple as walking into Tesco, getting a striker off the shelf and heading to the checkout, there''s many variables involved.

I suspect we might have to wait until late in the window, as this is when most clubs will have a chance to assess their squads and see who they can allow to leave.