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Ray

How would you feel if.....

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How would you feel if you were a young striker, selected as the only striker on the bench and your team is winning 4 - 1 with 15 minutes to go and the manager takes off the main striker and brings on a defensive minded midfield player, putting one of your peers, who is essentially a winger in the CF position?

Why put him on the bench in the first place if you have no intention of using him in such a situation. IMO this shows a great lack of emotional intelligence by our manager and it was an unnecessary move that may have damaged young Carlton. In fact most of what I see and hear of and from our manager on match day (and I sit quite close) is of a negative mode, mainly bo11ockings and very little, if any encouragement. It is an aspect of his style that worries me, but what do I know?

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Part of it is the reality of football. Sometimes you have to accept the manager doesn''t really rate you or that you''re not quite good enough.

Maybe it''s his way of telling you you''re not good enough and he wants rid or maybe it''s his way of saying he wants to see more from you.

Having said that, I have been of the opinion/suspicion that AN''s man management skills are not the greatest for a while.

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I get where you are coming from. It is pointless having him on the bench at the moment. But it is becoming evidently cleat that Neil likes his options, and even more clear that Neil picks the players. I kind of like the fact that he isn''t here to please the players. Remember that we are short of strikers and you might grasp that.

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Dependent on how many strikers we manage to bring in eventually, I think Morris (loan) and Lafferty (permanent) would be on the way out- in that order.

With the knowledge that it may now only be the one coming in, I myself would rather the more experienced, international striker kept back for a PL promotion push rather than a relatively unblooded youngster with a couple of uninspiring loan spell under his belt.

That is not to do the young boy down- look how well his fellow starlets did tonight- nonetheless I think it would be more important for Kyle to get game time with the first team at the moment, and the game was won.

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A bit disappointed we''ve not seen him yet. Understandable but I feel he hasaid all the attributes to be a superb player for us. All he can really do now is show us on the main stage. Perhaps he needs a loan to league 1 once we have our proven number 9 in. Really think out of all the youth though Carlton looks like one that would seamlessly adapt to the men''s game. He massively improved on his physical game while out at Hamilton

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[quote user="Ray"]How would you feel if you were a young striker, selected as the only striker on the bench and your team is winning 4 - 1 with 15 minutes to go and the manager takes off the main striker and brings on a defensive minded midfield player, putting one of your peers, who is essentially a winger in the CF position?

Why put him on the bench in the first place if you have no intention of using him in such a situation. IMO this shows a great lack of emotional intelligence by our manager and it was an unnecessary move that may have damaged young Carlton. In fact most of what I see and hear of and from our manager on match day (and I sit quite close) is of a negative mode, mainly bo11ockings and very little, if any encouragement. It is an aspect of his style that worries me, but what do I know?[/quote]

Putting players on the bench is a way of keeping them involved.  Players

are used to sitting on the bench and not being played - and they have

to accept  it without taking on hidden meanings that may or may not be

there.  The manager wanted to try something different, that''s all. Carlton would obviously be at the

moment a third choice and if we get another striker or two he would be

fourth choice for the first team.  He will realise that and will need to build his career

gradually probably on loan again.  AN''s man management skills

are reckoned to be very good - it''s one of his strengths and was one of

his recommendations from Hamilton.  That he gets frustrated, angry,

emotional on the touchline doesn''t change that. Anyway, as a scotsman there would be something unusual in his behaviour if he wasn''t like that....

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Morris is young and open to improvement; but his spells on loan suggest he may struggle to perform at championship level just yet. I have no doubt that he will be on loan if we can sign two strikers.

Have him on the bench in case laffs get an injury or needed to go 2 up front but seeing what Josh could do up front as the more now ready option seems a sensible choice to me.

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The performances from all the young guns last night was very encouraging and a 6-1 scoreline against poor lacklustre opposition can only be good for their progress but at 4-1 up and no chance of us throwing Coventry a lifeline it was a very strange substitution. If ever there was a chance to give Morris some game time that was it as it would surely never come at a better time. Is Jerome injured as the removal of Lafferty from the game to protect him for saturday in the managers plans or was it to give Mulumbo some badly needed game time ? If it was the first option then it had to be Morris and if it was the latter in my opinion it had to be Andreu taken off as he was very poor and the worst performer in the Norwich side by a country mile.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]And I guess he got a look at Josh playing central. He didn''t do too bad to be fair. But it was Coventry.
[/quote]^^ This.He brought on Mulumbu so another young striker could have a go up front. It''s that that said young striker was already in midfield.We only play one up top at a time, which makes it hard for everyone to get a run.and I''m sure AN explained that so everyone knew their place.

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Bloody hell, if we won 6-1 with poor man management, does that mean we''d have won 12-0 with good man management?
I like the way AN goes about things.

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The sub seemed to be made so Murphy could play as a striker. He played that position a few times for MK Dons last season and I guess AN wanted to see how he would do there.

Norwich are overloaded on the wings but lacking strikers, especially quick ones who are good at taking on their man. If Murphy could do that then it would be a very useful string to his bow so to speak.

If I was Morris I''d take it as a hint to work harder at impressing AN in training. U23 game on Thursday, he''ll get his chance then to show if he is worth keeping or not.

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We don''t know what AN may have told Carlton Morris before, during or after the game - his emotional intelligence level may be a bit more advanced than it appeared last night. Having said that, I really fully expected to see Morris play a part - and at 4-1 up that seemed an ideal time to get him on.

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LDC,

You said;

AN''s man management skills are reckoned to be very good - it''s one of his strengths and was one of his recommendations from Hamilton.

LDC, I guess you have a source for this opinion, however it doesn''t marry with what I hear, but as I said before, what do I know?

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Posters are unbelievably naïve about football sometimes.  To make it as a professional footballer, you need to be able to deal with sometimes getting concerted abuse from thousands of fans simultaneously.  If you can''t handle being on the bench and not being brought on when that might seem a logical substitution, you''ve no chance of making it.

 

At 4-1 up it was sensible to bring off Lafferty and try a youngster up front for a bit.  Morris didn''t get the shout for that role, Murphy did.  Morris therefore knows he''s some way down the pecking order at the moment and as several has said, it''s likely he''ll need to go out on loan to improve before he can progress at City.

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ICF,

I agree, of course you need to take the knocks and nowhere did I suggest young Carlton can''t handle the situation. I think you may have missed the main point within my post, insomuch I have a concern about certain man-management skills and not purely based on the decision not to bring Carlton on, although I''m not sure how much he would have learned, that he didn''t already know, playing Josh up there for 15 mins?

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Ray it seems like you are using this issue as a stick to beat Alex Neil with. Think its clear from your previous posts you have connections with some youth players who it seems have made some comments to you, or you have heard, regarding AN''s style of management, so maybe it would be best, if you see fit, to address them specifically, or maybe not at all.

The specific you are refereeing to last night I''m afraid doesn''t really fit your perceived agenda.

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[quote user="Ray"]LDC,

You said;

AN''s man management skills are reckoned to be very good - it''s one of his strengths and was one of his recommendations from Hamilton.

LDC, I guess you have a source for this opinion, however it doesn''t marry with what I hear, but as I said before, what do I know?[/quote]

I''m with Willo on this.  You seem to take your opinions from people who you know at the club, or you may even be involved at the club yourself. Whatever the position, your agenda seems pointed against AN for some reason.   My opinion is based on nothing more than what I''ve read about AN, seen from the man himself at matches, in close ups on tv and in interviews and watch how he handles the press, how he has time to speak to everyone and treat every question with a considered answer and with respect.He comes across as a very likeable person, but with a steely edge which shows he is strong minded and that shows he is secure in the away he is doing things.   If he has rubbed the occasional player up the wrong way - then maybe that is what they needed in his view.  Finally, the love that the staff and players had for him as a manager and a person  at Hamilton was openly expressed, in some cases with tears, when he left. For me that is a the most telling recommendation.

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I''d like to hear from others who may overhear AN and his words during the game. Of course it is not the full picture as we have no idea what is said behind closed doors or at Colney. However what worried me about Ray''s OP was the comment about the negative stuff coming from AN towards the players. That could be a massive inhibitor if it is a more general trait of his. I have been a bit worried about why sometimes we seem a little in our shell, not quite Hughton-esque, but certainly not showing the verve and creativity I feel we can show with what we have available (I''m talking the league not games like last night). From my own personal experiences I can see how getting the balance right between positive encouragement and managing through fear can have very powerful and different impacts. I think we saw with Ranieri last season how he just seemed to create the right positive atmosphere with little pressure and got his team performing way above what anyone expected. We also seem to regularly start slowly, at least last season we did, and I wonder whether that is linked.

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[quote user="Ray"]ICF, I agree, of course you need to take the knocks and nowhere did I suggest young Carlton can''t handle the situation. I think you may have missed the main point within my post, insomuch I have a concern about certain man-management skills and not purely based on the decision not to bring Carlton on, although I''m not sure how much he would have learned, that he didn''t already know, playing Josh up there for 15 mins?[/quote]

 

Well, the game was effectively won when we went 4-1 up at 63 mins and AN then brought on Godfrey and Josh Murphy pretty much immediately.  So clearly those were the two young players he decided to give a run out, rather than Morris, and they both had almost 30 minutes on the pitch.  Before the 4th goal it would have been utterly premature to make those sort of changes (especially Godfrey for his debut). 

 

He then made the call to withdraw Lafferty on 74 mins and re-jig at that point so Murphy went up front rather than bringing on Morris, & there were 20 minutes from then until the final whistle.  That''s the sort of call a manager has to make and, like I say, it just means Morris is down the pecking order at the moment.

 

You clearly have an agenda against AN, but I don''t think the decisions AN made last night support it.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Ray"]LDC,

You said;

AN''s man management skills are reckoned to be very good - it''s one of his strengths and was one of his recommendations from Hamilton.

LDC, I guess you have a source for this opinion, however it doesn''t marry with what I hear, but as I said before, what do I know?[/quote]Finally, the love that the staff and players had for him as a manager and a person at Hamilton was openly expressed, in some cases with tears, when he left. For me that is a the most telling recommendation.

[/quote]

Spot on LDC, you can''t argue with that 👍

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Can''t see what AN did wrong there whatsoever, both Murphy''s are way ahead of Morris in that role and rightly so - both have shown far more promise and deserve to be further down the pecking order.

In other news, 6-1 last night - well done AN 👍

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Does seem an odd decision, the only thing I can see to explain it is if AN wanted Mulumbu to get the game time as he''s a little behind the rest of the first team in fitness and he''s planning on using him at the weekend. Morris does need to either get a chance or go out on loan to a lower Champ club though, otherwise he;s going to slip through the net I fear. Let''s see what deadline day brings... looks like Oliveira is on his way, and I fully expect at least one more striker in and one out at the deadline, plus possibly Mbokani who I reckon is waiting on a better offer but will likely come back to us last minute if noone in the Premiership goes for him. I think we''ll see 2 possibly 3 new faces up front in the next week; and Morris quite possibly out on loan again.

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Surely Morris will understand that he is still learning his craft, even if he did play a few games at Hamilton. If he is the fourth striker, after Jerome, a.n.other and Oliveira, and Lafferty gone, injury or suspension will offer a prospect.

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