Mike Dean

[Yellow Wal 314]

Gave penalties yesterday that have not been given over the years but should have been.

Let''s get rid of this shirt pulling and holding in the box.

I just hope other referees have the balls to do the same.

[YorkshirePudding 0]

Not always about balls, it''s extremely difficult to spot it with all the commotion in the penalty area.

[Molly Windley 76]

The problems with giving penalties when a defender holds an attacker or an attackers shirt is that the ref needs to consider many things.# If the defender held/grabbed the attacker first# If the attacker is not holding/grabbing too round the back out of his vision# That the ball is in play to be a penalty# That a block with body or arm is obstruction and therefore an indirect free kick but is ignored everywhere else on the pitch as all players hold off others with their arms out to protect the ball.# That if you are giving /penalties to attackers and only defensive free kicks to defenders then the risk/reward for holding is weighed heavily in the attackers favour to attempt it.# If a Stoke player had been holding a Man City defender on the front post whilst Sterling held a Stoke player on the back post then what do you give?# Was Sterling blocking with his arms ( obstruction and indirect free kick) or holding with his arms (penalty)?# Is putting your arms round a player in a U shape but not holding him obstruction or a foul?# If you put your arms round a player in a U shape and he moves into you are you holding or is he fouling?I don`t have a solution, just looking at some of the issues with giving penalties

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Incident today when a corner was over hit and Bennett was trying to run for it, first he was held up by the scum player firmly pulling back on his shirt in the box, then outside the box he was pushed off the ball. Nothing given.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Yep, should have been a pen. The ref had a perfect view of it as well....................

[Yellow Wal 314]

Molly Windley wrote the following post at 21/08/2016 11:17 AM:

The problems with giving penalties when a defender holds an attacker or an attackers shirt is that the ref needs to consider many things.

# If the defender held/grabbed the attacker first

# If the attacker is not holding/grabbing too round the back out of his vision

# That the ball is in play to be a penalty

# That a block with body or arm is obstruction and therefore an indirect free kick but is ignored everywhere else on the pitch as all players hold off others with their arms out to protect the ball.

# That if you are giving /penalties to attackers and only defensive free kicks to defenders then the risk/reward for holding is weighed heavily in the attackers favour to attempt it.

# If a Stoke player had been holding a Man City defender on the front post whilst Sterling held a Stoke player on the back post then what do you give?

# Was Sterling blocking with his arms ( obstruction and indirect free kick) or holding with his arms (penalty)?

# Is putting your arms round a player in a U shape but not holding him obstruction or a foul?

# If you put your arms round a player in a U shape and he moves into you are you holding or is he fouling?

I don`t have a solution, just looking at some of the issues with giving penalties

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

This really does take a strange look at the rules!

From the top........

#If the defender held/grabbed the attacker first

- this does not really matter - the moment the ball is played and becomes ''in play'' it''s the first person the referee sees committing an offence. He cannot and should not concern himself with what went on before (unless it''s violent conduct).

#If the attacker is not holding/grabbing too round the back out of his vision

- again completely irrelevant. If he cannot see it he cannot give it. He should not guess what ''might'' be happening. Once an offence is spotted it should be given. The referee, if in any doubt, should consult his assistant.

#That the ball is in play to be a penalty

- as already stated.

#Obstruction

- as you state obstruction is an indirect free kick ...... then give an indirect free kick!

#Attackers holding have a greater reason to try it as the rewards are greater.

- This could surely be regarded as cheating in the same way as diving and the culprits could be booked?

# The Stoke player scenario

- the referee quite simply gives the first foul he sees.

# Sterling

- That is up to the referee to make his decision as he sees it

#The U shape

- If no contact is made is there a foul at all? But if contact is made by the attacker trying to move and the arms in the U position impede him then surely he is being held. If he moves into the defenders body I would suggest he is fouling him.

Molly - it seems you are looking for ways out for the officials so that not giving penalties can be justified ......... you''re not a referee are you?

[AJ 1,218]

The one he gave against Sterling was bang on. No attempt to play the ball, how many times does that go unnoticed?

Refereeing in this country is piss-poor at times, hopefully they''ll follow the rule book a bit more this season.

[lake district canary 4,530]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_D1fXDR3bgYesterday.  Defender puts both hands up to stop Pinto (2.15).  Pinto had beaten him and had no need to go down as he had the pace to get past him.  Should have been a penalty imo.

 

[AJ 1,218]

LDC, agree that at the time my instinct was ''that''s a penalty'', you should not be able to put your hands up and grapple an opponent in that manner. I think Pinto went down too easy and theatrically which is why he didn''t convince the ref.

Having seen the replay, my opinion remains the same. Enough of a shout to give a penalty but perhaps Pinto made it look a bit too easy.

Great attacking stuff from Pinto though, hope he isn''t hurt to badly.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Yes, technically a penalty, but you''ll rarely get one given when the attacking player goes down so theatrically.

[BroadstairsR 2,135]

About time too.

I remember sitting at the front of the Barclay as a one-off some years ago and noticing from my very close position that Ewan Roberts could hardly move an inch at corners for having his shirt pulled. Once by a couple of them. I had never had such a close up view. It was eye opening.

That is a penalty offence. Jasper got it right for once but we need the others to follow.

Yesterday''s tugging of Ryan Bennett was a prime example. That was a penalty.

They bleat about their early disallowed goal being on-side because the nth replay showed that a Pinto stud put Douglas onside but what about that clear penalty?

Eh!

Bother.

[Yellow Wal 314]

Once again, thank you Mike Dean.

We will get rid of this pathetic shirt pulling one day if only your fellow referees could show some balls and do the same!

[SwindonCanary 455]

When was the last game you saw a ref give an indirect free kick ? They seem to have gone out of the game.