This big myth

[The Dog 16]

Getting fed up with this big myth that the board have not backed Alex Neil. They have backed him however it''s not their fault that the majority of his signings have had little if no impact and in many cases have simply added to the deadwood we already have in the squad. His signings to date:

Toni Andreau - £1 million - complete waste of space

Graham Dorrans - £3 million - hardly played in premier league

Yousef Mulumbu - Bosman but 35k a week - dreadful

Matt Jarvis - £2.5 million - permanently injured

Jake Keen - so good he''s already left on a free transfer.

Robbie Brady - £7 million - started well but tailed off badly and is continually played out of position by Neil.

Ivan Pinto - £2.5 million - has looked ok in the championship

Ben Godfrey - £500k - one for the future

Steven Naismith - £7.5 million - spent months chasing him only to not seem to be able to get anything out of him or know how he is best utilised or what his best position is. Dreadful.

Timm Klose - £7.5 million - looked decent when not injured in prem. Not sure the championship is going to be a bed of roses as was bullied by Murphy and poor at Birmingham. Teams will target him with the physical stuff from now on.

Andre Wisdom - loan - clueless defender

Mbokani - loan & huge wages - average

Patrick Bamford - loan - signed and then hardly played

James Maddison - £3 million - one for the future

Alex Pritchard - £8 million - yet to play.

Michael McGovern - free - looks solid enough but is he any better than Declan Rudd?

Sergi Canos - £2.5 million - early days but looks to have potential m

Paul Jones - free - squad filler

Given we don''t have a big benefactor we have to run as a business and balance the books so taking this into account I would say he''s been backed with a decent amout of money with more to come in the next few days. Yes we have sold several players in his time as well so the outlay has not been all one way however I would say he has been backed in the transfer market more than any other manager in NCFC history.

Question is if it was your money and with a history of the signings above should he be trusted with more money as there are significantly more misses than hits on his transfer ins to date.

He has also however to date failed to develop & improve player forward during his tenure which is a poor reflection on his coaching setup.

As you can guess I feel the credit he acquired from getting us up has long since been used up and given we have been a premier league side for 4 of the last 5 season nothing but top 2 should be accepted this season. If we are not right up there come mid October he should be shown the door. I hope he shuts me up and turns the tide quickly aided by some great signings in the next couple of days however I have my doubts. Currently he''s talking a good game but failing to deliver of learn from his mistakes and this has been the case for nearly a year now. I think it''s 6 wins in a Calender year in the league which is simply not acceptable.

[Alfie54 76]

Couldn''t agree more, never rated him. If there''s any chance of Steve Bruce wanting you to come here we should do all possible to make it happen

[Jacko 0]

I don''t think there can be any question that the board are doing all they can to back Neil financially. Every penny this club brings in revenue is reinvested into football - either in terms of facilities or into the playing budget.

If the McCormack deal had been successful then that would have been the 3rd time in 8 months that we''ve broken the club transfer record.

The issue is clearly that we are failing to spot and identify the appropriate kind if players - both for the Championship and the Premier League. Our recruitment is seemingly reactive and very scattergunned. With little by way of planning.

This situation with recruitment was meant to have been rectified by the board but now appears worse than ever. That for me is where this is going wrong and you can have all the money in the world but it''s meaningless if you don''t know who to sign.

[Kingston Yellow 220]

A few important points your post ignores:

1. Dorans was an important player in the second half of our promotion season when Alex took over.

2. Your post illustrates that we made just 2 perm signings before the start of our Prem season. Despite the very obvious need for reinforcements.

3. Point 2 de-bunks your myth that the Board has backed Alex Neil.

4. Our transfer strategy last season (enough to make a cat laugh) backfired spectacularly. Not reinforcing in the summer and then blowing the budget in January (which might have worked if Klose hadn’t got injured).

5. Naismith has been a major disappointment. No one could have predicted this. Why do you lay this at AN’s door? It looked like a great signing on paper. The player’s simply never looked up for it. Let’s get rid if we can.

6. As you say, most of the rest of the signings are either a) ones for the future (when we need players right now) or b) haven’t played yet.

7. All of which points to the fact that we’ve gone into another new season without adequately bolstering the squad. Again, de-bunking your myth that the Board has backed AN.

So week after week, AN has to come out and face the media (rightly so), whilst there’s not been so much as a peep out of the Board since Wembley.

And now that embarrassment Ed Balls is appearing on Saturday night TV, focusing on his own personal agenda and PR, instead of running the club. But yeah, let’s all blame Alex Neil.

[Barry Brockes 145]

Rob Butler was getting close to saying something yesterday on Canary Call he might have later regretted regarding the appointment of Lee Darnborough who appears to be becoming yet another in a long line of mysterious senior appointments at the Club.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

I agree transfer record is not great to say the least, this IMO is where his lack of experience has let him down most. Saying that I have no idea how much the scouting network is also to blame, presumably a top notch network would have identified lesser known talent which could have made life a lot easier. Either way something needs adjusting at the club to make a higher success rate.

[Robornio 106]

The most worrying thing about the manager for me is when I saw an interview with one of the board saying that "Alex was devastated and felt guilty for what had happened. He was considering his options, but we told him we had confidence in him and convinced him to continue..." Now, if you imagine that in a work sense, if I''d massively failed my objectives and lost all confidence in my abilities, there is every chance my manager would fire me. What''s bizarre is that there were points last year where it appeared Alex had no idea why it was going wrong nor what to do to try and rectify it, which is why the substitutions were so obscure. Sometimes if a manager loses a winning mentality and a belief in his own ability, it can very quickly transfer to the players. As soon as you lose their confidence and respect, it''s almost certainly a lost cause. This has certain shades of Worthington to me. And you are right, the board does seriously need to change to avoid yet another repeat of what happened after that.

[ReadingCanary 0]

[quote user="Robornio"]The most worrying thing about the manager for me is when I saw an interview with one of the board saying that "Alex was devastated and felt guilty for what had happened. He was considering his options, but we told him we had confidence in him and convinced him to continue..." Now, if you imagine that in a work sense, if I''d massively failed my objectives and lost all confidence in my abilities, there is every chance my manager would fire me. What''s bizarre is that there were points last year where it appeared Alex had no idea why it was going wrong nor what to do to try and rectify it, which is why the substitutions were so obscure. Sometimes if a manager loses a winning mentality and a belief in his own ability, it can very quickly transfer to the players. As soon as you lose their confidence and respect, it''s almost certainly a lost cause. This has certain shades of Worthington to me. And you are right, the board does seriously need to change to avoid yet another repeat of what happened after that.[/quote]

Get what you''re saying, but comparing football to "the normal workplace" stopped being a thing years ago.

Football lives in its own little bubble, nothing is really comparable to it.

[Canary73 150]

Something else I think we need to question here is how effective Alan Irvine''s role is as Neil''s assistant. He was brought in remember as someone with experience at managing in the top two divisions and was seen as better than the likes of Holt, Calderwood and Trollope. I''m sure he wouldn''t have gone into yesterday''s game at St. Andrews without a recognised striker. So is Neil completely ignoring him? Do we think the players are trying their best under Neil?

[birchfest 397]

You lost me at Mulumbu being dreadful, he''s not actually featured enough to make that assumption, but actually I''d say he''s been one of our better players when he featured this season.

To the point of transfers and the board etc. I''d say this... We are all looking for one person to take the blame, yet it''s not a process that only involved one person. We have a transfer board, scouts, the manager and the board all involved in the process. To say it''s only Neil or only the board is Naive.

I''d say looking at West Ham and their signing of a lad we were ''in for'' for 20 million, shows if anything our scouts are getting it wrong with unrealistic targets, especially as there have been 4 or 5 players in the last few years we''ve been after and have gone to top teams.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

i would like to point something out about the scouting network

Now we have Tony Spearing who knows the Foreign leagues and English leagues as he was head of European recruitment at a EPL team WBA and hea scout at reading

NOW just say Tony says to alex found a cracking player / striker playing at a team in italy 2nd div will cost us 2 million

Now if Alex Neil says no i dont fancy him its not the scouting networks fault they have found players but AN does not want to sign them

AN is the only one who have the final say on signings i know that as a fact ( and rightly so ! )

he has been backed by the board but they want to see results out of their outlay we are not a cash rich club who can just keep signing players

i would say it is NOT the players we sign

i would say its what the manager is getting out of them which is the problem we have a very strong squad we just need someone to gel the team and get them playing as a unit

For me AN is not that man

[king canary 7,580]

The problem often isn''t the individuals we sign, it is the general planning of the squad. We started the season with a squad that looked well stocked in midfield but short of strikers yet we''ve spent £10m on midfielders. Canos and Pritchard are both individually good players but we don''t need both of them.

Again last season- we needed a centre back and a right back in the summer. Instead our three permanent signings were Dorrans, Mulumbu and Brady, all midfielders.

It just feels like we''re signing players for the sake of it sometimes without a long term strategy in place.

[The Dog 16]

[quote user="birchfest"]You lost me at Mulumbu being dreadful, he''s not actually featured enough to make that assumption, but actually I''d say he''s been one of our better players when he featured this season.

To the point of transfers and the board etc. I''d say this... We are all looking for one person to take the blame, yet it''s not a process that only involved one person. We have a transfer board, scouts, the manager and the board all involved in the process. To say it''s only Neil or only the board is Naive.

I''d say looking at West Ham and their signing of a lad we were ''in for'' for 20 million, shows if anything our scouts are getting it wrong with unrealistic targets, especially as there have been 4 or 5 players in the last few years we''ve been after and have gone to top teams.[/quote]

I would say the return we have had from Mulumbu is dreadful. Offered nothing last season and has been sporadically used this season. On his wages I reckon he''s cost us circa £2.5 million in wages alone which is a dreadful waste of money.

[If wed only kept Howie.. 3]

Which industry do you work in Robornio?

[The Dog 16]

[quote user="Kingston Yellow"]A few important points your post ignores:

1. Dorans was an important player in the second half of our promotion season when Alex took over.

2. Your post illustrates that we made just 2 perm signings before the start of our Prem season. Despite the very obvious need for reinforcements.

3. Point 2 de-bunks your myth that the Board has backed Alex Neil.

4. Our transfer strategy last season (enough to make a cat laugh) backfired spectacularly. Not reinforcing in the summer and then blowing the budget in January (which might have worked if Klose hadn’t got injured).

5. Naismith has been a major disappointment. No one could have predicted this. Why do you lay this at AN’s door? It looked like a great signing on paper. The player’s simply never looked up for it. Let’s get rid if we can.

6. As you say, most of the rest of the signings are either a) ones for the future (when we need players right now) or b) haven’t played yet.

7. All of which points to the fact that we’ve gone into another new season without adequately bolstering the squad. Again, de-bunking your myth that the Board has backed AN.

So week after week, AN has to come out and face the media (rightly so), whilst there’s not been so much as a peep out of the Board since Wembley.

And now that embarrassment Ed Balls is appearing on Saturday night TV, focusing on his own personal agenda and PR, instead of running the club. But yeah, let’s all blame Alex Neil.[/quote]

In response:

1) Dorrans was on the bench most of the time, didn''t start at Wembley etc yet we still signed him on a permanent transfer for £3 million having gone up which shows to me he was signed to have an impact in the premier league which he simply did not have.

2) Brady, Dorrans, mulumbu that''s 3 for starters but agree we did not do well last summer recruitment wise which was partly down to the structure in place and partly down to the fact Neil did not know the English transfer market and him, the football board and McNally had not identified two target lists one for if we went up and another for if we did not. Not all Neil''s fault but he should not be absolved of all blame either.

3) not at all, the money was there he and his recruitment team simply did not have themselves organised and wasted the limited time we had going after unrealistic targets and got played by agents, clubs and players alike.

4) who blew the budget in January answer Alex Neil. His chase of Naismith was frankly embarrassing and yet Neil seems to this day to still have no idea of how to get him playing well or even fitting him in a formation the suites the team. It should surely be fundamentals that you have an idea how someone is going to fit into the team setup and formation prior to signing them. All we have done since signing Naismith is play others our of position (Howson & Wes) to try and accommodate him.

5) see above re. Naismith

6) whilst we need to look to the future and I have high hopes for Maddison etc we don''t have endless resources so blowing a large proportion of the budget on players for the future at the expense of reinvigorating/revamping the current 1st team squad which is drastically needed by the way is not a wise tactic. Needs to be a balance between players for the future and players to make an immediate impact. Not sure we have this balance yet. Other concern is will Alex Neil develop these youngsters as to date he players seem to stagnate or even go backwards under his coaching rather than develop.

7) disagree strongly that he has not been backed. We''ve broken out transfer record twice in the last 12 months and the board were also prepared to break it again for McCormack. He''s had more opportunity to bring in new players than any other manager in the history of NCFC.

Additional points: it''s not the boards role to be speaking to the press every week however agree there does seem to be a lack of communication from the top when Hingis are going wrong. Hopefully Moxy will address this once he gets up to speed.

Also don''t get me started on Ed Balls, he''s embarrassing full stop even before he signed up for strictly. Quite what he brings to the club I''m not sure. Then again this could be said about other board members both past and present. I regularly cringe about some of them being involved with our club.

In summary not all Alex Neil''s fault but he has had a very large part to do with it and as is the case with the role he holds as manager the buck has to stop with him.

[Clint 221]

I have to say, I agree entirely with The Dog on this. Neil has been backed, significantly more than any other manager we''ve ever had, he''s just not used the resources wisely.

I also don''t ever recall us being strongly linked with so many players and failing to sign so few of these. I''m also not keen on chasing players - if a player wants to be here, then they''ll sign, if it takes months to get them through the door, the chances are they''re not going to perform as they don''t really want to be here. See Naismith.

[Kingston Yellow 220]

Clint / Dog – what planet do you live on where the manager at NCFC is responsible for recruitment? It’s blindingly obviously that recruitment is completely outside of AN’s remit.

And if the Board''s backed the manager as you say, can you please explain how we ended up going into last season with only 2 new perm signings? And without addressing our key areas of weakness.

Our approach to recruitment has been a complete disaster ever since this Footballing Board was created, when Lee Darnborough was appointed.

[Len 74]

Some good reasons to get rid of him have been posted in this thread. People mention results being key to whether he keeps his job but ignore that he only got 3 wins in his last 18 PL games.Shades of Roeder.....comes in with a bang, wastes money and loses the dressing room. Overall he''s a $h1te manager.

[FenwayFrank 2,457]

Mulumbu on 35k a week in the championship? Never.

[The Dog 16]

[quote user="Kingston Yellow"]Clint / Dog – what planet do you live on where the manager at NCFC is responsible for recruitment? It’s blindingly obviously that recruitment is completely outside of AN’s remit.

And if the Board''s backed the manager as you say, can you please explain how we ended up going into last season with only 2 new perm signings? And without addressing our key areas of weakness.

Our approach to recruitment has been a complete disaster ever since this Footballing Board was created, when Lee Darnborough was appointed.[/quote]

I don''t want to be a sarcastic twat like a lot of the other posters on this board however you are testing my here. Do you honestly think that the manager, who has openly said he has final say on all recruitment matters, has no involvement in the recruitment process? If so why was he away the week before last on a trip to Europe watching players?

[The Dog 16]

[quote user="FenwayFrank"]Mulumbu on 35k a week in the championship? Never.[/quote]

In afraid he is. Remember he came on a Bosman free. No transfer fee means big wages.

He''s not even the hugest paid player either! That honour goes to a rather diminutive Scotsman who is also not delivering a huge amount.