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Moxey on Radio Norfolk

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This could be controversial but...

Define what is having the clubs best interests at heart is?

The current model is good for the next 12-18months, but what about in 3-5 years?

Loving the club, but admitting that there is not enough money to compete with the top teams in this division and refusing to sell the club - is that having the best interests at heart?

It sounds more like you have your plaything and when you cannot run it anymore you will pass it down to somebody else in your family.

This club, like it or not, is a business that will need to make money to survive. Not a family heirloom.

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The model of a football club being owned by moderately wealthy local worthies with some regard to community and tradition is no longer a viable one, if it ever was. The advent of the Premier League changed everything and since it was formed it has been obvious that we were moving ever closer to a type of NFL model where the competing clubs become playthings of the ultra rich. Those that refuse to play this game or are unable to find a benefactor are headed for the dustbin of history. No amount of clamouring for a level playing field is going to wash, the new football hierarchy will be largely be decided by the depth of the owners pockets.Having rich owners is no guarantee of success or Premier League status but it keeps you in the game and in with a chance, without them we are basically stuffed. NCFC will either move with the tide of history or be washed away by the current.

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Absolutely SPOT ON Ricardo.

The one glimmer of hope is that Moxey was hired. Was this anything to do with the fact that he had helped engineer a hugely lucrative take over of a club very similiar to ourselves???

Probably just clutching at straws!

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CC a takeover that cost him his job. Can''t see him wanting it to happen so soon again! I always felt McNally was against a takeover for the same reason, who would want to lose a £1m a year job.

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Moxey clearly is not going to speak out on such a fundamental matter in a way which conflicts with the owners'' opinions. In any case, it''s all very well hoping for mega rich owners but , seriously, how likely is that ? You have to ask the question : why would a ''super rich'' person have any interest at all in buying Norwich City FC unless that person had NCFC in his or her blood ? We are a County Club without anything like the history or ''brand'' pedigree and awareness of clubs such as Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, Wolves, Derby etc. Billionaires the likes of Tony Xia and Al-Hasawi have bought the clubs they have because they ''tick the usual boxes'' of size, fan base, heritage and, vitally, international brand potential, they are mega rich and they have good reason to believe that their clubs have a genuinely good chance of making it to the promised land of the Champions'' League and the commensurate benefits of fame and fortune. Unless there is a Norwich City supporting squillionaire out there, my view for what it''s worth is we are stuck, for better of for worse, with Delia and family. My further view is that all in all they do a pretty good job given all of the factors. That doesn''t mean I am happy with the situation - I want Premier League football like any other fan - but I am a realist not a pessimist or, indeed, a foolish idealist. Off to dig my garden now.

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I actually think Moxey''s one in one out and mention of funds isn''t very clear.

Is he talking funds for purchasing or funds for wages?

Also if Oliviera cost £5mil and we only had £11/12 when after McCormack then I can understand it left us needing a sale to be able to buy in someone like Rhodes.

This leaves more questions such as when purchasing Oliviera were they doing so because they were confident or not confident of moving players on? It does just lead to more questions I doubt we''ll get any answers to.

That said I don''t think our squad is in too bad a shape. I still think that our defense is one of the best in the league. Better than Villa. Midfield isn''t too shabby either.

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At the moment there is little incentive for a prospective buyer. We currently play to a full house at home, the commercial and catering side of the business seems to be doing OK and I presume merchandising is pretty much the same. That said where does that leave any prospective buyer the opportunity to increase the value of the club and make a return on investment.

The only way a buyer would be able to increase their return would be for us to get back to the Premiership and increase our turnover through TV, but, whilst this season is at an early doors stage, after this weeks inability to add firepower to the team I think we may well be in for the long haul. So to get us promoted would need an immediate injection of funds but with no guarantee of success. Can''t see it happening tbh.

I, like a lot of posters are crying out for more investment in the club and really want D&M to sell up but who will invest in the club as we currently stand. I suppose our best chance to return to the top table is this season but after the transfer window I can''t see it happening. Hope I''m wrong obviously but just can''t see it after recent performances.

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I agree with what you say Ricardo, however if all 20 Premiership clubs are owned by billionaires, three of those clubs will still get relegated at the end of the season, now are those billionaires that own the relegated clubs going to stick with them in the Championship or are they going to try to buy one of the clubs that gets promoted?. The following season 3 more clubs will get relegated etc, etc, etc. My own personal opinion is that there will always be those owners that are much more wealthy than others , and we will never be the sort of club that will attract the extremely wealthy individuals because of our location, so it is not beyond he realms of possibility that in say 20 years times fans will be bemoaning the fact that our billionaire owner is not as rich as the other billionaire owners......

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FJSPSOB, your right in what you say but wouldn''t it be better if we were one of the better off teams now rather than get further left behind. As for being out in the sticks so to speak, Swansea managed to attract new investment this year and keep Huw Jenkins as Chairman, so it is achievable. Bournemouth also.

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[quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]I agree with what you say Ricardo, however if all 20 Premiership clubs are owned by billionaires, three of those clubs will still get relegated at the end of the season, now are those billionaires that own the relegated clubs going to stick with them in the Championship or are they going to try to buy one of the clubs that gets promoted?. The following season 3 more clubs will get relegated etc, etc, etc. My own personal opinion is that there will always be those owners that are much more wealthy than others , and we will never be the sort of club that will attract the extremely wealthy individuals because of our location, so it is not beyond he realms of possibility that in say 20 years times fans will be bemoaning the fact that our billionaire owner is not as rich as the other billionaire owners......[/quote]It was ever thus SOB. That''s why we are never likely to better our present position as a yoyo club. In fact this is probably the best that we can ever expect in the present day footballing hierarchy. My point is that plenty of other clubs aspire to that position and it is hard to argue against the fact that the Derby Co''s and Sheff Weds with newly found wealth are very likely to usurp that position if we fall down the financial pecking order.The big boys will always be the big boys and over the long term any would be pretenders usually fall by the wayside. It happened to Blackburn and will eventually happen to Leicester. It''s impossible to argue that money doesn''t talk so my concern is that the relative poverty of our present owners will eventually be too much for smart buying and better youth coaching and Academies to overcome. In the final analysis the under performing rich will always be able to buy out the over performing poor.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]I agree with what you say Ricardo, however if all 20 Premiership clubs are owned by billionaires, three of those clubs will still get relegated at the end of the season, now are those billionaires that own the relegated clubs going to stick with them in the Championship or are they going to try to buy one of the clubs that gets promoted?. The following season 3 more clubs will get relegated etc, etc, etc. My own personal opinion is that there will always be those owners that are much more wealthy than others , and we will never be the sort of club that will attract the extremely wealthy individuals because of our location, so it is not beyond he realms of possibility that in say 20 years times fans will be bemoaning the fact that our billionaire owner is not as rich as the other billionaire owners......[/quote]It was ever thus SOB. That''s why we are never likely to better our present position as a yoyo club. In fact this is probably the best that we can ever expect in the present day footballing hierarchy. My point is that plenty of other clubs aspire to that position and it is hard to argue against the fact that the Derby Co''s and Sheff Weds with newly found wealth are very likely to usurp that position if we fall down the financial pecking order.The big boys will always be the big boys and over the long term any would be pretenders usually fall by the wayside. It happened to Blackburn and will eventually happen to Leicester. It''s impossible to argue that money doesn''t talk so my concern is that the relative poverty of our present owners will eventually be too much for smart buying and better youth coaching and Academies to overcome. In the final analysis the under performing rich will always be able to buy out the over performing poor.[/quote]Ricardo, that''s two posts right on the money..................excellent if I may say.

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What a depressing thread, not on account of what Moxey said but on account of posts like ricardo''s and those agreeing with him. Thank goodness the fans of other clubs are unlikely to be looking in, otherwise suicide rates in such places as Barnsley, Bury and Lincoln are likely to rocket as the truth dawns that their clubs have been consigned to the dustbin of football history and there is simply no point to being a football supporter apart from existence as a plastic follower of a club seated at "the top table".

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The young canary! You could be the answer. The old canary is past it. The days where he could rally the fans at St Andrews Hall are long behind him. But you can be our saviour. Our messiah. Perhaps under the supervision of the old canary you could be the new voice of the fans....

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[quote user="westcoastcanary"]What a depressing thread, not on account of what Moxey said but on account of posts like ricardo''s and those agreeing with him. Thank goodness the fans of other clubs are unlikely to be looking in, otherwise suicide rates in such places as Barnsley, Bury and Lincoln are likely to rocket as the truth dawns that their clubs have been consigned to the dustbin of football history and there is simply no point to being a football supporter apart from existence as a plastic follower of a club seated at "the top table".[/quote]I doubt that even the most exuberant supporters of Barnsley, Bury and Lincoln would believe that their necessarily limited horizons aren''t restricted by the thickness of their wallets. They will all have their small glories but good players and good managers will always be tempted by brighter lights and bigger pay packets. They won''t be breaking into the big time anytime soon.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]It''s all very well the CEO going on the radio to take the plaudits after a transfer window, such as the one we''ve just had, that overall has been very successful..[/quote]

Time for PurpleCanary to stop "covering" for the club. We needed two to three strikers badly and managed only one.

Not good enough.

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[quote user="Ron Manager"] The club is not for sale and thus he sees little chance of investment because any investor would want a controlling interest in the club. Did that happen at Palace or Swansea?

[/quote]

Or Bournemouth.

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[quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]Oh I like you Highland, you take misery and negativity to such great depths, I think I will add you to my list.......[/quote]

Highland Canary is being realistic.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]The young canary! You could be the answer. The old canary is past it. The days where he could rally the fans at St Andrews Hall are long behind him. But you can be our saviour. Our messiah. Perhaps under the supervision of the old canary you could be the new voice of the fans....[/quote]Surely there is somebody out there willing to speak for the fans or maybe they don''t read this forum ?

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Ricardo,

As for smart buying, no chance of that when you waste £15m plus wages on:

Naismith - run out of "steam"? £8.5m for a nearly 30 year old.

Jarvis £2.5m for a player with a track record of being injury prone.

Andreau - £1m - Why?

Dorrans £3m

then Adams signed

Lafferty £3m - who did the due dilligence on this player?

and;

£8m (£8.5m - £0.5m) wasted re Wolfie and £3.25m on VOO.

YES, WE CERTAINLY KNOW HOW TO WASTE THE MONEY NCFC DID HAVE!

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[quote user="ricardo"]The model of a football club being owned by moderately wealthy local worthies with some regard to community and tradition is no longer a viable one, if it ever was. The advent of the Premier League changed everything and since it was formed it has been obvious that we were moving ever closer to a type of NFL model where the competing clubs become playthings of the ultra rich. Those that refuse to play this game or are unable to find a benefactor are headed for the dustbin of history. No amount of clamouring for a level playing field is going to wash, the new football hierarchy will be largely be decided by the depth of the owners pockets.Having rich owners is no guarantee of success or Premier League status but it keeps you in the game and in with a chance, without them we are basically stuffed. NCFC will either move with the tide of history or be washed away by the current.[/quote]

This

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Difficult to argue with Ricardo''s logic, though there is a caveat - in much the same way as timing, location and beneficial timing has made many people whose parents happened to be born inside the M25 in the last 20 years - simply being present and a net receiver of lucrative funds from within the Premier League over the last few years has allowed clubs to significantly Buck their historical place or pyramid average.

Contrary to the thoughts of many the inevitable logic of this had not escaped the Norwich City boardroom and the relatively adventurous investment in Klose, Naismith et al in January this year reached out to those ambitions.

In context the inability to go the extra mile for Afobe - who was thoroughly suitable to the model - may well be lamented given what has subsequently occurred on grass, in boardrooms and on balance sheets, though Nirwichbdo have players suited to and good enough for the top end of the Championship. This is not the same thing as having Premiership players and may well be better for that in context.

The ownership equation that Ricardo poses is well argued, though possession is nine tenths of the law and Norwich undoubtedly missed a wonderful opportunity to usurp the historical status quo last year, regardless of the relative depths of Delia''s pockets.

Should the retention of better-than-the-championship players and the relatively quality of Jerome in the Championship come to the fore - or indeed should Oliveira have enough talent to approximate Jerome''s 2014-15 contribution, then Norwich could again bridge the ownership gap.

Parma

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[quote user="Donkey dangler"]Ricardo,

As for smart buying, no chance of that when you waste £15m plus wages on:

Naismith - run out of "steam"? £8.5m for a nearly 30 year old.

Jarvis £2.5m for a player with a track record of being injury prone.

Andreau - £1m - Why?

Dorrans £3m

then Adams signed

Lafferty £3m - who did the due dilligence on this player?

and;

£8m (£8.5m - £0.5m) wasted re Wolfie and £3.25m on VOO.

YES, WE CERTAINLY KNOW HOW TO WASTE THE MONEY NCFC DID HAVE![/quote]Indeed, but many clubs in a similar position to us can reel off a similar litany of failure. At the end of the day its about having deep enough pockets to overide the failures.If you think of the Championship as a down escalator with 23 clubs trying to get to the top two rungs then its all about having enough money to be able to run the fastest. Teams who have recently found new investors will be able to run faster but while we have the parachute payments we can probably run faster than most.Once this windfall is gone it becomes progressively harder and eventually you can''t run fast enough to stand still. A glance down the A140 will show you the truth of that statement.I think the present owners believe that the present model will be good enough to get us back up. I sincerely hope they are right but even if it is the model we are following is kaput for the long term. If we have relatively poor owners then we will be testing a new level well below the premiership. The old model and the present owners served us well but there is a time for everything and without change I foresee only stagnation and decline.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="westcoastcanary"]What a depressing thread, not on account of what Moxey said but on account of posts like ricardo''s and those agreeing with him. Thank goodness the fans of other clubs are unlikely to be looking in, otherwise suicide rates in such places as Barnsley, Bury and Lincoln are likely to rocket as the truth dawns that their clubs have been consigned to the dustbin of football history and there is simply no point to being a football supporter apart from existence as a plastic follower of a club seated at "the top table".[/quote]I doubt that even the most exuberant supporters of Barnsley, Bury and Lincoln would believe that their necessarily limited horizons aren''t restricted by the thickness of their wallets. They will all have their small glories but good players and good managers will always be tempted by brighter lights and bigger pay packets. They won''t be breaking into the big time anytime soon.[/quote]You are missing my point ricardo. Let me put it a different way (and no offence meant): if we consider the lives people lead, from the most fortunate, with the world their oyster, to the least fortunate, for whom just surviving is a daily struggle, I hazard a guess that you are among neither group and that you do not have much if any expectation of joining those at "life''s top table". Despite that, I doubt very much if you think life is not worth living and consider yourself consigned to the dustbin of history. As a recent feature on the BBC put it, it is perfectly possible to be happy in mediocrity and the devoted supporters of clubs for whom reaching the top will never be more than a pipe dream testify to its validity in football terms. You talk dismissively of "small glories", but I bet there are countless examples in your own life of ricardo and mrs ricardo deriving happiness and satisfaction from your own "small glories".

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They can''t run out of road Nigel, because along with the Dolls House and the Train Set, they own it.

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