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Yorkshire  Canary

far too early to panic short memories

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True the season has got off to a mixed start but it is far from being a disaster the Birmingham game apart. The table could look much better after the next two home games. We all know this division is a marathon not a sprint. Season 2014/15. I think we lost about 10 including 4 nil at borough plus several disappointing home draws and going out of the cups to Preston and Shrewsbury. I know we have not got the star striker signing but still plenty of quality players capable of scoring lots of goals and the January window if we are in the mix. I do agree for all to go well we need to be top 6 at Christmas but I expect us to be

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Totally agree YC - If we consider 2 points a game pretty much guarantees you promotion we''re really not that far below the level required. And that''s with substantial injuries, and without hitting top gear yet.

Could go either way for me, but certainly not time to panic.

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One of my first ''full'' seasons going to games as a 15 year-old was 85/86 when we lost 3 out of the first 6, I think it was, but won the title quite comfortably. It does often take sides a little bit of time to settle on relegation, but when we get going I''m sure we will be fine - the Brum game was maybe a wake-up call for the players (and some supporters) if they were becoming complacent, there''s a lot of hard work ahead.

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That''s an interesting point Branston - such a poor loss to Birmingham really should be a wake up call. You get the feeling if it had been a draw or a narrow defeat, perhaps people could have put it down to "one of those things" and papered over some of the cracks in the performance.

Would be good we can actually take something useful from such a poor defeat; hopefully this will give the players a real kick up the backside.

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[quote user="Ian"]Totally agree YC - If we consider 2 points a game pretty much guarantees you promotion we''re really not that far below the level required. And that''s with substantial injuries, and without hitting top gear yet.

Could go either way for me, but certainly not time to panic.[/quote]

To be fair, if we are going to apply that logic, there are 11 teams above us that are beating or matching that.

Also, the OP mentions January - yes if we are in a good position, we will strengthen (probably Rhodes) however what happens if we are outside the top 6? That''s what concerns me

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Whilst moaning and groaning about the window, the Board, some aspects of the managers performance, I still think we have more than enough to have a decent season and finish in the top six.

I am not feeling happy but with returnees from injury, the squad we have retained and the signings we have made there is good reason to be positive and give it maximum support when our boys are on the pitch. OTBC

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Totally agree we all need to get behind the club - it''s not the time for booing or organising protests - we''re only 5 games in FFS

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Unfortunately, some people panic or at least start throwing their toys out of the pram at the slightest thing. It''s been a mixture so far, but that last result ought to wake the players up and get a reaction. If not then the panic levels will get deafening on here. 

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We weren''t in the top 6 when AN took over in January 2015 and still made the play offs. That included games in the months before Christmas when we dropped a lot of points. If we''re in the top 6 in January, where we might buy a better striking option and get rid of a few troublesome players, we could stand a very good chance of finishing in the top two.

If....but....maybe....so.....

.....yeah, no one knows what''s going to happen, we''re five games in, lets just carry on enjoying the championship rollercoaster, moaning when we lose and thinking we''re Barcelona when we win!

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i think if people / fans could see a system / style then there would be less panic

AN admited making mistakes last season and then started to make mistakes within the first 5 games

to play Naismith upfront was a crime in itself , the way the team set up against ipswich , things like this worry fans and rightly so AN needs to grab this season by the scruff of the neck and stamp a style and system we play to

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My personal analysis of where we are at present has much more to do with the bigger picture than the league table and the ease in which Birmingham turned us over. Yes we have some good players but only when played in their best positions.

We now have an expensive array of players that can challenge Wes however we can''t play them all at the same time but we did mange to retain the worse performer and loan out one of the most promising who we were told wasn''t going anywhere.

We are light for quality at CB LB and worse of all up front and this is a team thst AN has put together. He has failed to get rid of the deadwood and in Whittakers case actually rewared him with a new contract.

I could go on and on about our collective failings to date however my biggest concern is i have lost faith in AN judgement and ability to create an effective motivated team. I am hoping he proves me wrong.

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A very short but very true post from the Capt. pointing out why football is so exciting. I guess some like to dream of success. Others are more comfortable predicting failure along with that old stand by "hope I''m wrong". I expect some joy for both points of view but hopefully we''ll be there or there abouts at the end.

If we knew what was going to happen would it be worth going?

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]A very short but very true post from the Capt. pointing out why football is so exciting. I guess some like to dream of success. Others are more comfortable predicting failure along with that old stand by "hope I''m wrong". I expect some joy for both points of view but hopefully we''ll be there or there abouts at the end.

If we knew what was going to happen would it be worth going?[/quote]

You are right Football is very unpredictable and exciting. I will never forget my trips to Wembley our European adventures competing for the early Premier League title Justin Fashanu goal against Liverpool being 3 1 down at home to Forrest and the entire ground getting behind City and coming back to draw 3 3. Win draw or lose I will keep suporting Norwich. Players and managers will come and go some good some not so and mistakes will be made its part of football but that does not mean blind acceptance of continual consistent repeated mistakes. You see there is a difference and doesn''t make me a half empty guy in fact i like to think of my self more as a half full.

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The aim of this club is promotion. AN, the board and players will have that aim.

The squad is certainly not as strong as many would like and now we are left with it

I suspect a top six finish but that is easier said than done. It also is not promotion and my worry is that even if we did return we would need an overhaul.

We are not doing a yoyo approach for west brom by adding prem players and becoming a premiership team. We do not have the financial clout at all.

The key for me is that I don''t believe many of our current crop can make the step up in te premier league. We will need a big overhaul if we go up, I don''t know if we can do it. The last few windows have shown it has been ridiculously hard and I do think it is 11+ players that would need if we wanted to stay up in the premier league if we went up.

Just feels we are not geared to build a club that can stay in a league with multi millionaire owners.

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For the smaller clubs going up who do not have rich owners they stand and fall by their transfer dealings and it is not all about money. Norwich by and large post lambert have wasted their transfer budget hence 2 relegations. Wba are similar to us in so many ways and they have not had good recent transfer dealings and may resume their yo yo status at the end of the season

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[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]For the smaller clubs going up who do not have rich owners they stand and fall by their transfer dealings and it is not all about money. Norwich by and large post lambert have wasted their transfer budget hence 2 relegations. Wba are similar to us in so many ways and they have not had good recent transfer dealings and may resume their yo yo status at the end of the season[/quote]


You''ve hit the nail on the head.  When we went up under Lambert, he made a lot of signings and they were a canny mix, not all came off, but he did enough to get a squad that performed comfortably to get to safety while never being under threat of relegation.


Hughton in the summer after Lambert left did well to strengthen the defence, which was the weak spot left by Lambert.  Hughton was naturally a good defensive manager, and in his first season he left Holt up front who was able to get enough goals to see us home comfortably on the back of quite a few 1-0 wins.  Not great to watch (or for Holt as a player) but when you''re beating Arsenal and Man U, many fans will be satisfied.

Then Holt had had enough and Hughton had to revamp our attacking options, and was under pressure to play less dull football.  The result was disaster with signings who didn''t fit with his style of play and losing our defensive solidity without gaining anything going forward.  The damage had been done long before Hughton was finally sacked.

Last season was probably the most frustrating transfer window I can remember, with a CB upgrade top of the shopping list for me and many other posters during the window, but it seems we ended up pursuing over-ambitious targets without a backup plan of someone who would have been an upgrade on Bassong/Bennett without being our perfect signing, so we ended up not signing a CB till January, which was IMO the most important single factor in our getting relegated.

 

This summer has been poor because again it was painfully obvious from the start that we needed to bring in a couple of decent striking options.  We''ve ended up with one who falls pretty much into the Plan B category.  So we''re a bit light in that area.  Time will tell whether Jerome can recapture his form and Oliveira can give him effective backup/competition at this level.  It could be enough.  So far too early to panic, but disappointing nevertheless.

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[quote user="Ernie"][quote user="nutty nigel"]A very short but very true post from the Capt. pointing out why football is so exciting. I guess some like to dream of success. Others are more comfortable predicting failure along with that old stand by "hope I''m wrong". I expect some joy for both points of view but hopefully we''ll be there or there abouts at the end.

If we knew what was going to happen would it be worth going?[/quote]

You are right Football is very unpredictable and exciting. I will never forget my trips to Wembley our European adventures competing for the early Premier League title Justin Fashanu goal against Liverpool being 3 1 down at home to Forrest and the entire ground getting behind City and coming back to draw 3 3. Win draw or lose I will keep suporting Norwich. Players and managers will come and go some good some not so and mistakes will be made its part of football but that does not mean blind acceptance of continual consistent repeated mistakes. You see there is a difference and doesn''t make me a half empty guy in fact i like to think of my self more as a half full.[/quote]
Football reminiscence is a subject close to my heart Ernie. I love how positive people are when looking back. It must be some kind of built in mechanism where by after a certain period of time we just remember good things. Like your memory of the comeback in that Forest game kind focuses on the comeback rather than the whole game. A more recent similar memory is the Middlesbrough 4-4 draw. Those 90 minutes remind me so much of the 9 months our last Championship season. We started ok in both. It then turned bad in both. So the fans got disgruntled in both. Then it all started to come together in both. The fans came on board again in both. The only difference being that the 2014/15 season ended in victory, ironically against Boro, where as the 2005 game only finished in a draw.
One of my friends likes to criticise me for being "too accepting". But I don''t think I''m any more accepting than him. I tried to say the Birmingham result was unacceptable. So much so that I tried not to accept it. I though "if I don''t accept it then it didn''t happen so job''s a good ''un". But every time I look for the result we still lost so my not accepting it has been a waste of time. 
We are where we are and thank goodness there''s finally a game again on Saturday. I hope we win. Not sure if I expect us to win because I have learned to expect the unexpected! We have a new striker to look forward to. He seems to be a disappointment to most people but he''s ours now so for me he''s the main man. How will it turn out? Who knows! At the end of the season we may be saying "if only we''d signed Mccormack......." Or we may be saying "Thank the Lord we signed Oliviera and not McCormack....." If we don''t accept him now we''ll never know[:)]

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Ernie"][quote user="nutty nigel"]A very short but very true post from the Capt. pointing out why football is so exciting. I guess some like to dream of success. Others are more comfortable predicting failure along with that old stand by "hope I''m wrong". I expect some joy for both points of view but hopefully we''ll be there or there abouts at the end.

If we knew what was going to happen would it be worth going?[/quote]

You are right Football is very unpredictable and exciting. I will never forget my trips to Wembley our European adventures competing for the early Premier League title Justin Fashanu goal against Liverpool being 3 1 down at home to Forrest and the entire ground getting behind City and coming back to draw 3 3. Win draw or lose I will keep suporting Norwich. Players and managers will come and go some good some not so and mistakes will be made its part of football but that does not mean blind acceptance of continual consistent repeated mistakes. You see there is a difference and doesn''t make me a half empty guy in fact i like to think of my self more as a half full.[/quote]
Football reminiscence is a subject close to my heart Ernie. I love how positive people are when looking back. It must be some kind of built in mechanism where by after a certain period of time we just remember good things. Like your memory of the comeback in that Forest game kind focuses on the comeback rather than the whole game. A more recent similar memory is the Middlesbrough 4-4 draw. Those 90 minutes remind me so much of the 9 months our last Championship season. We started ok in both. It then turned bad in both. So the fans got disgruntled in both. Then it all started to come together in both. The fans came on board again in both. The only difference being that the 2014/15 season ended in victory, ironically against Boro, where as the 2005 game only finished in a draw.
One of my friends likes to criticise me for being "too accepting". But I don''t think I''m any more accepting than him. I tried to say the Birmingham result was unacceptable. So much so that I tried not to accept it. I though "if I don''t accept it then it didn''t happen so job''s a good ''un". But every time I look for the result we still lost so my not accepting it has been a waste of time. 
We are where we are and thank goodness there''s finally a game again on Saturday. I hope we win. Not sure if I expect us to win because I have learned to expect the unexpected! We have a new striker to look forward to. He seems to be a disappointment to most people but he''s ours now so for me he''s the main man. How will it turn out? Who knows! At the end of the season we may be saying "if only we''d signed Mccormack......." Or we may be saying "Thank the Lord we signed Oliviera and not McCormack....." If we don''t accept him now we''ll never know[:)]
[/quote]

Nelson was clearly a plan B or even C signing however im all for giving players a chance as you say he could turn out to be excellent for us just like a very unfancied Grant Holt at the time.

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In terms of becoming a yo-yo club, buying and keeping hold of premier league players etc, by keeping Naismith (yes I know he''s been rubbish), Brady and Klose, haven''t we actually done that this time? I don''t think we need 11 new players, but maybe 5 or 6 really strong signings

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My main concern is with Alex Neil.

After last season''s shenanigans, and yes I know he did not always have the best of good fortune, I am worried that his there might be shortcomings in his tactical nous and in his ability to really motivate the players.

I do not accept this "lack of experience" label either. He has now had a good rounding in the art of ''managership'' following on from a career in the professional game.

We cannot allow ourselves to fall short because a manager is not or no longer up to the challenge. This has happened overmuch in the past.

The squad is fine save a couple who by being on the books are wasting resources and that lack of a top-drawer striker.

Regards the latter, Oliveira might well surprise and we have the next window to address shortcomings in any case. Apparently there is some money there, although just how much is the puzzle.

Wee Alex, you have that magical ten/fifteen games to justify your position, in my book at least.

This squad is well capable of promotion, even automatic, as things stand so it is up to the managerial team to get the most from them.

The start-stop beginning to this campaign evokes doubts that will hopefully be erased within a month or two.

The Board would be amiss if that axe has not already been sharpened though.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]My main concern is with Alex Neil.

After last season''s shenanigans, and yes I know he did not always have the best of good fortune, I am worried that his there might be shortcomings in his tactical nous and in his ability to really motivate the players.

I do not accept this "lack of experience" label either. He has now had a good rounding in the art of ''managership'' following on from a career in the professional game.

We cannot allow ourselves to fall short because a manager is not or no longer up to the challenge. This has happened overmuch in the past.

The squad is fine save a couple who by being on the books are wasting resources and that lack of a top-drawer striker.

Regards the latter, Oliveira might well surprise and we have the next window to address shortcomings in any case. Apparently there is some money there, although just how much is the puzzle.

Wee Alex, you have that magical ten/fifteen games to justify your position, in my book at least.

This squad is well capable of promotion, even automatic, as things stand so it is up to the managerial team to get the most from them.

The start-stop beginning to this campaign evokes doubts that will hopefully be erased within a month or two.

The Board would be amiss if that axe has not already been sharpened though.[/quote]

I agree, we have, even with our obvious short comings in certain departments enough quality to gain promotion if managed correctly.

But now I am a little confused as to what our financial position is as we were prepared to spend up 12 million on McCormac but after failing to sign him Moxely then tells us we need to sell to buy?

Well if money was to tight to mention why did AN spend £3 mill on Maddison, £8 mill on Pritchard, £8 mill on Naismith and £2.5 mill raising to £5 mill with add on''s for Canos a total of £21.5 - £24 mill if our main priority clearly was a striker? I don''t think even AN would have blown all his budget on attacking midfielders, he must have been told there was more money available for a striker. Which can only lead us to one conclusion, someone''s lying.

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We''ll that would be the case if spending the budget was that straightforwad. However it''s my understanding that the total spend includes present players which is why deals are so complicated. The idea that we would spend 35m and keep everyone bar Redmond is pie in the sky. Look at Newcastles window....

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