Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
allways travelling

Luton Debacle Not Worthys Fault

Recommended Posts

Why is everyone putting the blame on worthy.He can and does send the team out fully focused.But as he says why we wasnt 2-0 up after the first 15 mins is hard to take.strikers  have to take full resposibility for this not worthy.After we went 1-0 down we all thought it a matter of time before we scored.Then enter greeno horror show happens to all goalies.still unable to blame worthy.We then start to panick and some more horrific defending leaves us with some mountain to climb.And by the way the horrific defending was made by the very defence every fan has been crying out for.Can anyone reading this still explain to me why worthy is getting berated for the first half showing.after a worthy rollicking we scored two goals second half and with a little bit more luck could have ended up with a point.Which before tonights game with the midfield injury list we have at the moment a point would have been most gratefull.Now all we are reading on these boards is the same old crap of worthy out.I feel these worthy out campaigners need to realise that worthy cant make the forwards score the goals. neither can he stop the defenders defending like a pub team.The team has to take full resposibility not worthy.Most fans and other managers admit we have one of the best teams in this division. Lets not forget worthy has built this team.So i suggest you all get of his back and start getting behind our manager.Even if it does look like the play offs this year.When we get our best eleven out this year and a little bit more rub of the green we can beat anyone in this division inluding the runaway leaders sheff utd.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
however he could arrange for the players to pass the ball
to each other, organise the defence, arrange some tactics, come
up with some new set piece routines, generally give them a bit
of passion in their play. FAir enough he can''t score and keep
them out, but he can do the above, because if he isn''t doing the
above, what exactly is he doing for his money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well said.

I think just as many people are still backing Worthy...including myself.

To get rid of him at this time would be the worst thing we could do. IMO things would go from bad to the worst if this was to happen.

Luton was one of those things.
Admittedly the performances have not been up to scratch recently, but the blame does not all lie with the manager.

Are people going to be starting Ashton Out campaigns soon, just because he''s not scoring every goal he should? Or Greeno Out because he''s made a few mistakes?

These are all people who have done a lot for the club and deserve better SUPPORT from the SUPPORTERS!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]however he could arrange for the players to pass the ball to each other, organise the defence, arrange some tactics, come up with some new set piece routines, generally give them a bit of passion in ...[/quote]

So if the team was 2-0 up in first 15 mins. which we should have been is this due to worthys tactics or lack of passion i dont think so. It was just one of those nights. we are still only just of the top six and our season has not got going yet. Takes time to adjust to this division just look at the other two teams what came down.By the way cant hear any dowie out at the palace yet would you not agree there result at home to brighton was worse than ours.specially as we had lots of injuries to contend with and we was playing a team who has made a very good start.And i have just read rednapp feels his side is the best in this division and is confident of going up.his side has just drawn the last eight games he must be on tranquilisers.Things will turn for us soon that i do feel confident of. Just need to get leon  and safri back and hope we have  had our injuries quoter for this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

    I totally agree with these comments but you also forgot to mention the fact that we''re pretty much down to our last fit 1st team players (bench at luton ward, ryan and rossi Jarvis, Jarrett and louis-jean very limited) are there any other fit players at NCFC that weren''t involved on tuesday.

    I am getting more and more annoyed by those that can''t wait for us to lose again so they can continue their apparent vendetta against worthy (one of the most successful managers in our history). Ok we''re not doing as well as I thought we would be, But he tried to sign morrison didn''t he (foreseeing leon''s dip in form before the rest of us) If we''d have got him we''d have probably had more confidence in front of goal resulting in scoring more, having more self belief and thus winning more games. Who''d have thought leon would have only scored 2 goals by now.

   Trust Worthy

Come on you Yellows

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so what does Worthy take responsibility for then?

he picks the team and then crosses his fingers with the rest of us?

Of course not, he''s the manager. We''re not talking about one result here. We''re talking about 1/3 of a season of disappointment and for that he is largely culpable. No excuses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]Why is everyone putting the blame on worthy.He can and does send the team out fully focused.But as he says why we wasnt 2-0 up after the first 15 mins is hard to take.strikers have to take full respo...[/quote]

Correct me if I''m wrong, but isn''t Worthy supposed to be the manager?  Then, if you agree with that, then he must take responsibility for the team and how they play.  Luton wasn''t just a flash in the pan Always Travelling, it was the next in a line of games which all have one common factor.  We are under achieving for a variety of reasons.  Wrong players in wrong positions, tactical ignorance, too much emphasis placed on energy/effort over technical ability etc, etc. 

Yes, it is down to those on the pitch - but due to not buying/rebuilding the side in the close season we are now left with the bare bones and due to the run of games we have had, most of those (out of position or not) players have lost their way.  That is solely down to Wortington. 

As for making forwards score goals - he can play to the forward''s strengths - ie McVeigh and Ashton, balls to feet, passing from midfield, not a hoof from Green. 

The second half was an improvement, yes, but why did the first half happen at all?  And not for the first time either, hand on your heart Always, when have we controlled a game?  When have we played consistently well?  And the injuries, most of which stem from training. 

Like you, I dearly want our team to be successful, but it isn''t going to happen under Worthington.  We have seen enough, not just this season, but in the Premiership too. 

Why are Sheff U runaway leaders and we are not? They play to their strengths, have team spirit and a manager who knows what he is doing.  We are not up there with them, cos we just don''t have these qualities in Worthington.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am certainly not saying Worthy should go but if results are not his fault what does he get paid for?

When a team plays well it is the Manager who picks up awards in the form of Manager of the Month. However, a lot of people seem to be suggesting that a losing team has nothing to do with the manager.

I wish I had a job where I am only responsible when things go right!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have to agree with GTG and YC on this one - it has all been said before.

Also if it wa a one off then no it would not be Worthys fault - bad day at the office etc - but when we have had at least 8 similar dispalys this season alone and numerous errors for lord knows how long there becomes a time when it is the managers fault for not admitting, identifying or rectifying the problems.

It is worthys problem - and fault.

OTBC 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was a poor performance and everyone has to take their share of responsibility.  The players and Worthy all have to take a good hard look at themselves and ask why things aren''t going as they should.

It''s ok pointing to an improved second half performance but the game was over as a contest by that point and the two goals were nothing more than meaningless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''ve read on several threads that the problem lies in Worthington not buying the right/enough players in the summer.

If there were no attempt to boost the squad further, then this would be valid criticism. I just don''t buy it though. I recall Worthy, Doncaster & others all saying that they were trying desperately to sign other players (who remained unnamed because that is the ethical way to conduct such business) but were either rebuffed by unwilling sellers, or priced out of the market, or players just didn''t want to come to Norwich!

To mention a few names, Idiakez didn''t want to leave Derby, Ifill went to Spurs, Morrison to Palace, David Wright, Linvoy Primus, Steve Sidwell, even that git who chose the scummers over us!

I''m sure there were other targets also, whom I don''t know, nor does anyone outside of the boardroom - the point is that the squad is as it is through necessity, NOT lack of effort to strengthen it. If you go along with my view, then a goodly chunk of the accusations against Worthington just fall away.

There ARE areas where Worthy has blundered, as have others at the club, but I remain unconvinced that a managerial change would be for the better. Any side would be in trouble with the better half of it''s first 11 out injured - Arsenal recently anybody? We have a good team, but we can only handle 3 (maybe 4) to be out at a time. We''re just overstreched at present.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]People are basing their views on the whole of this season. The Luton game was not a one off. I still think we should give Worthy until the end of the season but if he does not get us promotion then a...[/quote]

Actually BJK I think you would be fairer in saying that some of posters are basing their judgements on more than this one season. Numerous posters have highlighted problems from the Premiership season that are a feature again this season. Why is that?...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]People are basing their views on the whole of this season. The Luton game was not a one off. I still think we should give Worthy until the end of the season but if he does not get us promotion then a...[/quote]

This i do agree he needs the whole season then judge him.Nothing to lose this year still have parachute money from prem to come We will finish in top six rest assured. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]Correct me if I''m wrong, but isn''t Worthy supposed to be the manager? Then, if you agree with that, then he must take responsibility for the team and how they play. Luton wasn''t just a flash in the ...[/quote]

Some of your points are justified.Before safri got injured we beat hull we beat brighton things were starting to look half decent but  since then and before the millwall game we lost the entire regular midfield no side is big enough to cope with that.The one thing you do need is luck and i feel we are not getting it this year.the season we one the championship we had bucket loads of it.The mention of effort is a must in this division its in your face football unlike the prem where you do get more time on the ball.But i do still feel injuries our the main reason for our inconsistency this season as i said we just started to get a run going and we have had to change personell all over the place again and when its your midfield its the worst possible scenario. But i do agree worthy should have bought in one more  midfielder mind you the free signing of jarrett seems to highlight this more as he is not looking the part glad it was a freebie.Going back to the first fifteen mins at luton if we had got the 2-0 lead which you have to agree was unlucky it would have been a different game which we possibly would have gone on to win.This is why i say we are getting there we need a bit more lady luck. We lost three more points down to hucks and ashton missing pens in recent games which i would have put money on them bagging them.We have got to stick with him and the team this year at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that there should come a point this season when the board need to say "Enough''s enough" (but I can''t see it happening)if we find ourselves, god forbid, in position where we won''t be able to secure a top six finish, then surely it''ll be time for a change.  A new manager would have the remains of the season to get the squad up to his standard, then a full pre season as well. 

We may well have a few players looking for/ or wanting to play for Premiership football, so a new manager would have to convince them to stay with us for another season.

I think Worthy has done wonders for our club, when you consider where we were when he took over.  It is unfair to suggest he''s replaced, but needs must as they say.  We were founder members of the Premier League, those who remember that 1st season will know what a great feeling it was to be in the top 3, leading the way.  Last season was great, didn''t finish as we wanted, but every fan got a glimps of what we want back at Carrow Road.

As for potential future mangers, I''d like to suggest Mike Newell, our club has the potential to get bigger and better, no disrepect to Luton, but he''d do wonders for us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh here we go; here come the fans out in force that ultimately threaten the stability of this football club. The fans that seem to think Nigel is faultless with everything he did, just because of what he''s done.

When are we going to see that Worthington cannot escape the blame? A football team is only as good as it''s manager, and ours has reached his limit - he cannot motivate a team, he fails to pick the correct formation and players for matches and he continues to make fundamental mistakes in terms of his substitutions. His teams seem incapable of playing for 90 minutes (and this is a worrying feature that has developed over the course of last season, let alone this) and worse still, seem incapable of both defending and attacking - Luton being the perfect example. We had 80% possession and more shots than Luton, yet only scored 2 and conceeded 4!

Come on guys; let''s wake up. A manager is responsible for the football team and ours has major problems. He deserves criticism, and our refusal to do so is only hurting our team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote: ''Why are Sheff U runaway leaders and we are not? They play to their strengths, have team spirit and a manager who knows what he is doing.  We are not up there with them, cos we just don''t have these qualities in Worthington.''

If this is the case, then why has Neil Warnock only got those qualities this season - why didn''t Sheffield United get rid of him several seasons ago when things weren''t going the way they wanted? - NO, they stuck with their Manager and look what they are achieving.

Has Worthington lost the qualities that helped to win the division 2 years ago? - No, that hasn''t happened either.

Both Neil Warnock and Nigel Worthington are the same people as 2 years ago. Other factors have, however, changed. The team make-up is one and in NCFC''s case, the attitude of the fans. To a certain extent it is the fan''s reaction that rubs off on the players too. Shouldering some of the responsibility for the current morale of the team isn''t something that the fans appear to want to accept - so Worthington gets it all. It''s a good job he has broad shoulders and a thick skin!

On the Ball City! - and full support to our team and our Manager

from at least 3 of your supporters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]Correct me if I''m wrong, but isn''t Worthy supposed to be the manager? Then, if you agree with that, then he must take responsibility for the team and how they play. Luton wasn''t just a flash in the ...[/quote]

Gazza makes comparisons with Sheff Utd, and wouldn''t we love to be where they are now. They are, as we know, managed by (the historically much maligned) Neil Warnock who has been in charge since 1999. In his first 3 years they finished mid-table, then in 2003 lost in the play-off final and finished 8th in the last 2 seasons (with some impressive cup runs thrown in the mix). Now I bet that there were plenty of times when the fan-sites were redhot with cries for the manager to go, but for whatever reason the board kept the faith. Doubtless there are still those who think its taken him far too long to get the team where it is now but I suspect the majorty are very relieved that people in high places kept the faith. It seems to me they are benefitting from continuity (in the certain knowledge that they have a manager, like ours, who has previously achieved promotion), and management ''continuity'' will have my vote ahead of ''change'' which is always disruptive and diverts energies away from where they are immediately needed - in improving continuously our performance levels so that they team will again perform with excellence on the pitch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]This i do agree he needs the whole season then judge him.Nothing to lose this year still have parachute money from prem to come We will finish in top six rest assured.[/quote]

I can see where you are coming from with the parachute money but that wont keep players like green, ashton, safri at the club if by Jan we are still in 15th place and as club comes in for them.  The parachute money is noce but huge squad turn arounds and losing the few plyers we have that are capable of getting us up and staying up in not substitute for the loss of quality.  It is too hard to find as we have found this summer.

If we do not get promoted first time around we will need at least 1 and probably more, seasons to rebuild a squad capable of challenging for promotion.

We are so close to getting it right and doing the proverbial charlton but we are also so far off it too.

 

OTBC 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

same old yellow and green tinted specs on.

Most of us can see the frequent mistakes from our Manager, but there are those that still think he is untouchable because he got us promoted.

I think Worthy has done wonders for the club, but he is not not showing any signs of taking us that one step further and this is the only reason the majority of us get annoyed and use this forum to criticise the Manager.

All you fans slating us for that, I beg of you to actually read what we say.  None of us go to matches and boo the team or the Manager.  We all buy our shirts, tickets, programmes, hell anything that brings money into the club,   We all sing our hearts out on match day and get behind the team from start to finish.   When it is all over though it is our right to be able to air our criticisms on the forum or face to face down the pub.   You are no better a fan than us because you never moan.

You have to see the facts in front of you, the poor team selections, the poor formations, the numerous injuries from training, the favouritism of certain players, the head in hands when he should be screaming encouragement, the list is endless and as Yankee said there is no point going over and over it as some of you just refuse to see the facts, it is so frustrating.

If Worthy does turn it all around and we do go up again, well done to him, but you have to ask if it is purely down to him or the fact that when all our players are fit we have the best squad in the league and that was true the season we won it too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]This i do agree he needs the whole season then judge him.Nothing to lose this year still have parachute money from prem to come We will finish in top six rest assured.[/quote]

Nothing to lose? How about our place in this league. At this rate we will be very very close to not being in the league next season. What about all those nice players we have, Ashton Green Huckerby Safri etc. You think they will really want to hang around if there is no sign of improvement. Fair enough, we''ll still have a paracute payment, but what good will that be. Do you honestly trust the manager to use that money wisely?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]Some of your points are justified.Before safri got injured we beat hull we beat brighton things were starting to look half decent but since then and before the millwall game we lost the entire regula...[/quote]

Always Travelling

Be honest, didn''t you really expect us to beat Hull and Brighton - both clubs a few seasons ago a league below, why however have we not beaten Coventry, Leeds, Reading, Crewe and Southampton, all at home.  A promotion chasing side should also be able to beat Stoke away.  We have resources in terms of money, facilities, a season ticket sell out fan base and some of the best players in the league, I bet Warnock et all would love to have Ashton, Green and Safri. I accept your points and they are well made, but luck doesn''t win championships, a well motivated team does.  We made mistakes in that season, but due to signing Huckerby and not having so many injuries we were a far better side than today, and crucially better than the other teams at the time.  Also we have not replaced Francis, Svensson etc in the summer and with a large number of injuries now, a lot of them on the training ground, we are never going to achieve consistency.

Yes, we should have got going better at Luton, ditto every game we play.  Why don''t we come out all guns blazing and dictate and dominate games from the start, particularly at home? 

We didn''t just lose points due to missed pens, it was due to other factors besides this.  We can''t rely on penalties to win games.  Don''t seem to remember getting too many in promotion year.  The simple facts are this is not a city side firing on all cylinders, not eleven players who are confident and enjoying their football, not enough team spirit.  This is not all the player''s fault, Worthy is responsible for knitting a team together and he hasn''t done it yet.  How much longer do we give him?  How many more Millwall''s Reading''s Luton and Watford''s do we have to see before we all accept things are not right and have to change?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]Always Travelling Be honest, didn''t you really expect us to beat Hull and Brighton - both clubs a few seasons ago a league below, why however have we not beaten Coventry, Leeds, Reading, Crewe and So...[/quote]

Gazzathegreat I do agree with you on lots of points and i do believe worthy has made some errors this season.I do feel sorry for worthy this year its seems to be one of our worst seasons for injuries. what we need is a good run of matches with the same team this i felt was happening prior to millwall match. hull and brighton wasnt just beaten we looked different class.Something definately needs to be done with lots of our injuries seem to be coming from training sessions. we do get sell outs every week but surely this has been down to worthy success over the last few seasons so credit needs to go to him as well for this.

When we were beaten by reading and leeds it was not deserved we was the better team but did not take our chances they did.luck and injuries has played a large part in our failures this season and i hope a change of luck is now with us whren we play qpr sat.I think we will keep our players if we are in the top six with the chance of play of finals. but if we fail to win them i think deano could well be on his way greeno also thats if he can get prem club. rest would stay with us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]same old yellow and green tinted specs on. Most of us can see the frequent mistakes from our Manager, but there are those that still think he is untouchable because he got us promoted. I think W...[/quote]

QUOTE from stevanage fan

"If Worthy does turn it all around and we do go up again, well done to him, but you have to ask if it is purely down to him or the fact that when all our players are fit we have the best squad in the league and that was true the season we won it too."

     Who the hell put the team together in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good thread this one.  Glad to see I am not the only one who thinks we should stick with Worthy.

When we got promoted I thought we had a very lucky season - virtually no injuries to key players, Hucks in at just the right time, lots of one nillers that could have gone the other way - who can forget Mullers''s goal at Reading?

This season we have been crippled with injuries, we have lost and drawn several games when we could have won or drawn them, we have missed penalties, how many times have we hit the woodwork, freak accidents like Greeno at Luton....

Luck is not everything, but if we had had a lucky season so far, we could be right up there.

Let''s hope we are saving all of our luck up for the second half of the season.

On another point, if Worthy left, could this not lead to the departure of key players?

Worthington''s green and yellow army...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Always Travellin - If, as you suggest, the manager''s not to blame, do we get rid of the players then? That''ll be a first - it''s traditional for Clubs to get shot of their manager, not the team, when the team''s been playing poorly over a long period of time (11 wins in 52 games is hardly impressive).

Dicky - "if Worthy left, could this not lead to the departure of key players?" The way things are panning out, we will be losing those players anyway - who wants to play for an inept manager?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]Good thread this one. Glad to see I am not the only one who thinks we should stick with Worthy. When we got promoted I thought we had a very lucky season - virtually no injuries to key players, Huck...[/quote]

Dicky

Yes, I suppose you could say it was luck we signed Huckerby, I personally thought it was brave of the board, but then they were pressurised into it, by Worthy, and Delia no less, albeit with the financial help of a local benefactor.  Before the loanees arrived we were very average.  I remember coming home from Sheff Utd, after Abbey''s injury thinking what a great season this was going to be! Then in came Crouch, Harper and Hucks, and the rest as they say is history.  IMO signing Hucks was Worthy''s finest hour and he has my thanks for that.  However we did have a very settled squad and allegedly it was a very poor league.....What I am trying to say is yes, we rode our luck well, had a great team spirit, which is sadly lacking now, and hasn''t really been in evidence much the entire season. You are again right about the one nils.  We also played incredibly badly in some matches and got away with it, unlike now.

And so to this season, I would love to know just how we have so many players injured, especially the training ground ones.  Is this not down to bad coaching practice rather than bad luck?  Yes we have had chances, but so have the opposition, they took theirs, we didn''t.  You don''t mention that on several occasions we don''t turn up until the second half.  Why is this?

As for key players leaving, I suppose it depends on where Worthy might go (and if the players concerned feel their career would be better placed at that club).  Also, which players?  At this moment in time, I find it hard to believe, human nature being what it is, that he has the respect of every player on his books.  As with every managerial departure, there will be some gutted, some relieved.  What is more relevant maybe is what happens if we are below mid table come January when the vultures next descend.  I truly hope things will have improved by then, but sadly can see a pattern emerging which may suggest otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...