Hooper v McCormack

[Guest]

Indy, get over it bud. Ricky has been given repeated chances at the club (mainly because nobody else will go anywhere near him on a perm). Yet despite being an expensive signing, and despite playing under 3 Norwich managers, none have actually felt him worthy of a regular squad place.

I''m sure you will oblige with a remarkable stat along the lines oF RvW having a truly tremendous technique, but the fact remains no other club are willing to pay what you believe he''s worth.

[Donkey dangler 0]

How about the amazing idea of playing Ricky off a target man!

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Donkey dangler"]How about the amazing idea of playing Ricky off a target man![/quote]IIRC, that''s where he often used to play for Utrecht...

[hogesar 9,616]

Im sorry but blaming our club entirely for a player unable to perform in the premier league, unable to perform on loan in france and unable to perform in spain on top of being unable to take several chances back here is bordering on insane.

HE has failed. Not the club, not our coaches or even his bloody agent.

I dont even blame Hughton. Its not like his style was unknown when Ricky moved to us, was it? Rvw was obviously happy to take the risk as hed be raking it in wages wise.

And if he is so dependant on only playing in one way (which i dont totally agree with as looking at sporting match reports at the time they played in different formations and styles as did Etienne as did Betis, as did we) then hes never going to find his form back.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="hogesar"]

I dont even blame Hughton.[/quote]That''s all I needed to read before I stopped paying any attention.If you genuinely can''t see that Hughton DESTROYED the goalscoring ability of pretty much EVERY striker we had in the 2 seasons he was here (and I''ve already proven and shown this earlier), then you''re NEVER going to be able to see what a player like RvW can offer when used correctly.And for hopefully the FINAL time - outside of the very best in the world - a player will ALWAYS struggle to perform if played out of position/role and when given little to no supply, therefore we CANNOT say that RvW was unable to perform in the Prem given the circumstances, he did ok in France (if nothing special), and simply didn''t get the minutes to prove otherwise in Spain, and again, if you can''t see that, then you NEVER will...

[curious yellow 184]

[quote user="hogesar"]Im sorry but blaming our club entirely for a player unable to perform in the premier league, unable to perform on loan in france and unable to perform in spain on top of being unable to take several chances back here is bordering on insane.

HE has failed. Not the club, not our coaches or even his bloody agent.

I dont even blame Hughton. Its not like his style was unknown when Ricky moved to us, was it? Rvw was obviously happy to take the risk as hed be raking it in wages wise.

And if he is so dependant on only playing in one way (which i dont totally agree with as looking at sporting match reports at the time they played in different formations and styles as did Etienne as did Betis, as did we) then hes never going to find his form back.[/quote]

This is just total rubbish.

If the manager picked a 9 year old kid, you would blame the kid then?

Of course you blame the manager, who in Hughtons case would not start him for more than 2 games in a row or would send him on to chase a lost cause. Also for chickening out over the penalty incident.

What people on here have conveniently forgotten is the amount of stick Holt got under Hughton.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="curious yellow"]What people on here have conveniently forgotten is the amount of stick Holt got under Hughton.[/quote]Yep.Holt went from being our top striker and talisman, who''d hit 21 and 15 in the previous 2 seasons, who then dropped to 8 under Hughton, was then moved on, and his goalscoring has never been the same since (3 at Wigan/Villa, 2 at Huddersfield & 2 at Rochdale).But I guess we should blame Holt for that and complete excuse Hughton...

[Mr Angry 1,545]

WTF-it''s Hughton''s fault that Holt couldn''t fight the aging process after he left us, and it''s Hughton''s fault that Holt was out injured for 9 months? Really???

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Mr Angry"]WTF-it''s Hughton''s fault that Holt couldn''t fight the aging process after he left us[/quote]Ah, so absolutely jack all to do with Hughton''s horribly negative tactics that not only halved his goal returns, but made him look half the player he was just the season before under a manager that wasn''t afraid to attack and positively charged the players up to achieve the top levels of what they were capable...clearly nothing to do with Hughton then...[quote]and it''s Hughton''s fault that Holt was out injured for 9 months? Really???[/quote]No idea where you''ve got that from, as at no point have I claimed Hughton caused Holt to become injured (although I think I''d rather have been injured for 9 months than play under Hughton''s diabolical style of play)...

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

Quote from Indy-Bones: If you genuinely can''t see that Hughton DESTROYED the goalscoring ability of pretty much EVERY striker we had in the 2 seasons he was here (and I''ve already proven and shown this earlier), end quote

All you proved with those stats is that the season Ricky was the main man we had our worst goal return.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Dead Canary"]All you proved with those stats is that the season Ricky was the main man we had our worst goal return.[/quote]You mean the ''main man'', who played less minutes than either Hooper or Elmander?And that''s the same Hooper that the season before managed 23 league goals (albeit in SPL), 4 Champions League goals and 8 in the Scottish League cup (not to mention the 19 league goals he scored in the Champs when THREE years younger) - compared to a mere 6 league goals and 2 in the CapOne cup, but clearly that''s not indicative of ANYTHING, nor is it apparently anything to do with Hughton....And that''s also the same Elmander that only a couple of seasons before managed 10 league goals and 6 assists in a pretty rough Bolton side, compared to just the 1 league goal and 4 assists under Hughton, which would also apparently be a complete coincidence and nothing to do with the manager''s apalling tactics and style of play...EVERY SINGLE STRIKER who played under Hughton saw their goal tallies drop dramatically, and you want to shuffle the blame onto the players whilst the clown who orchestrated the whole debacle walks away scot free - I don''t f**king think so!

[hogesar 9,616]

But I defended Holt because he''d proven what he could do for us, still scored 7 league goals and still brought other attributes to the side.

Of course Hughton didn''t help Rvw but other strikers still out performed him. I don''t particularly rate Hooper but I understand why some sides wanted him whilst no one has wanted ricky

[Samwam27 519]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="hogesar"]

I dont even blame Hughton.[/quote]That''s all I needed to read before I stopped paying any attention.If you genuinely can''t see that Hughton DESTROYED the goalscoring ability of pretty much EVERY striker we had in the 2 seasons he was here (and I''ve already proven and shown this earlier), then you''re NEVER going to be able to see what a player like RvW can offer when used correctly.And for hopefully the FINAL time - outside of the very best in the world - a player will ALWAYS struggle to perform if played out of position/role and when given little to no supply, therefore we CANNOT say that RvW was unable to perform in the Prem given the circumstances, he did ok in France (if nothing special), and simply didn''t get the minutes to prove otherwise in Spain, and again, if you can''t see that, then you NEVER will...[/quote]

Indy, Hughten might well have destroyed RVW, but then why didn''t he rediscover his form abroad with a different manager/team/system. Why didn''t AN keep him to build him up like he''s done with others. We are, I''m afraid, running out of excuses as to why RVW has now failed to show a goal return in 3 seasons running

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Samwam27"]Indy, Hughton might well have destroyed RVW, but then why didn''t he rediscover his form abroad with a different manager/team/system. Why didn''t AN keep him to build him up like he''s done with others. We are, I''m afraid, running out of excuses as to why RVW has now failed to show a goal return in 3 seasons running[/quote]There was not much wrong with his performances at St.Etienne, for starters they were focusing more of their play through Gradel on the left rather than centrally, and if he''d played the full season instead of being rotated with Erdinc, he''d have hit double figures with a number of assists, and whilst not ground breaking, is hardly complete rubbish either, especially coming off the back of the horror season he''d had the year before with us!As for Betis, he was given just 600 minutes, mainly due to the form and performances of Castro who was undoubtedly Betis'' main striker that season collecting more minutes than any other Betis player, including the GK who only missed about 30 mins themselves!In regards to why AN doesn''t look like keeping him - RvW simply does not fit the system and style of play that AN prefers to utilise, and rather than doing a Hughton and putting a square peg in a triangular hole, AN appears to have decided to simply look to move him on, rather than consider changing the system instead. This doesn''t make RvW a bad player, simply that other alternatives suit what AN wants better and thus he''s back out in the cold again...

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="hogesar"]I don''t particularly rate Hooper but I understand why some sides wanted him whilst no one has wanted ricky[/quote]No-one wanted him?Why has he then gone on loan to two separate clubs, and had his former club making a genuine offer to re-sign him which simply fell down due to personal terms/wages then....???

[Donkey dangler 0]

Can we please get back to the op., Hooper v McCormack and why we are about to pay £12m for an player who is 18 months older than Hooper?

[AJ 1,218]

I''m still annoyed we sold Hooper, but maybe he wanted out due to not playing enough.