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Donkey dangler

Hooper v McCormack

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I am wondering why we sold Hooper for £3.5m last season given that we are rumoured to have bid £13m for McCormack (I am hoping that includes the add ons).

Assuming we could have negotiated a new deal with Hooper I cant understand why we are buying a similar player (who is about 18 months older than Hooper) for about four times the money we got for Hooper.

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I''ll give it 10 minutes until jamaea turns up with his ladybird book of football

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Because the Board were so short sighted and naive, they thought we''d stay up, didn''t need him, but alas also AN never played him.

£3m is stupid in todays money. Again shows our lack of ability to get right money for players.

Hoopers gone, lets not try and compare

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I understood the sale of Hooper he didnt fit with how we played, unless AN has revised his own ideas after last season we''ll now be in exactly the same position just with a more expensive player. Still I''ll be hoping I''m wrong and this works out, last thing I want to see is a 15m 30 year old bench warmer, while Jerome is starting because he fits the system better.

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One regularly scores goals and has done repeatedly season in season out in the championship. The other one doesn''t/hasn''t.

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[quote user="coops"]One regularly scores goals and has done repeatedly season in season out in the championship. The other one doesn''t/hasn''t.[/quote]

They have similar scoring records at championship level about a goal every 2/3 games.

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Love to see someone with the Championship pedigree of McCormack even if we pay over the top but if you think we could compete with salaries Newcastle and Villa would be willing to pay keep on dreaming. Concentrate on more realistic striking options i.e, cheaper.

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Hooper couldn''t get a regular start in our team, not even in the championship.  Why? Partly because of this criticism -  "he often plays at either

breakneck speed when involved in play or at walking pace when not".  A good piece of criticism by Steve Claridge, says it all.  Shef Wed may do well this season with Hooper scoring plenty, but with McCormack and with the quality we have throughout our squad, we would do better.

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One has to hope and assume that if we do pay a club record fee for MC, he won''t be a benchwarmer, and will be our primary striker.

And that Jerome may be the supersub, if AN continues with his one up front?

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Has interest in McCormack actually been confirmed anywhere? Or are people just getting in a tissy because of paper/agent talk trying to drum up business and using us as we''re perceived to be a rich kid in this division?

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[quote user="cornish sam"]Has interest in McCormack actually been confirmed anywhere? Or are people just getting in a tissy because of paper/agent talk trying to drum up business and using us as we''re perceived to be a rich kid in this division?[/quote]Whether we were interested or not, if he doesn''t sign for us his name will be the big, knobbly shillelagh to bash the club with ALL season.

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Hooper only really came alive in the box, not necessarily a bad thing but if u want to compare the two it needs saying.

Mccormacks work rate is twice that of hooper, he''s a superb set piece taker and has performed consistently for several seasons now. Scoring plenty of goals in much lesser sides than ours.

Is he worth the fee we will have to pay, probably not but since Fulham paid a silly sum for him they will obviously want a fair bit back. It''s just how it is.

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The fee suggested is about the going rate these days for a proven goal scorer and if he can get the goals that get us promoted then it will be money well spent. My concern is that he''s not a target man so the one up front role would not suit him. I''ll be interested to see how AN sets the team up if we sign him.

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I don''t know too much about McCormack but Hooper was lazy - the fact that he never looked entirely fit in his time here would make me question his desire - and AN certainly felt this as he publicly mentioned it.

For the most part, if Hooper isn''t scoring goals he''s not bringing anything else to the team. His performance in the play-off final against Hull was absolutely awful.

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Its just too much money for a 29 year old. We will not recoup any of that. We weren''t prepared to pay that sort of money for Afobe, who would have been a much better option. This just doesn''t make sense; we already have too many older players and we''re beginning to look like a pension club for Scottish has-beens.

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It''s a lot of money but if his goals get us promoted it''ll be a bargain. The risk being that we don''t get promoted and we''ve a got a high earne pr on our hands with a lower resell value.

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[quote user="Crafty Canary"]My concern is that he''s not a target man so the one up front role would not suit him. I''ll be interested to see how AN sets the team up if we sign him.[/quote]Well it poses an interesting point either way:1) If AN does intend to stick with a target man focused approach, then WTF are we doing signing McCormack (assumng we are)?2) If he doesn''t intend to stick with a target man focused approach, then WTF are we doing signing McCormack (assuming we are) when we already have RvW who could easily perform in a different system?

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Have posted MC''s stats up in another thread but he''s notched >20 goals in 3 out of last 4 seasons.

Truly would you prefer to give RVW another chance up front (or own or with partner) or MC?

MC is 29, and a 20+ striker. Its the going rate. I personally don''t like the lone striker (plus extra attacking midfielder) as IMO it suggests your midfield is too weak.

I''d bet money Jerome & MC upffront will score far more than either of them with Naysmith behind!

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[quote user="Samwam27"]Truly would you prefer to give RVW another chance up front (or own or with partner) or MC?[/quote]I absolutely would rather we played RvW in the correct way than spend 12-15 million on McCormack, as I think both can score plenty when used right and in a suitable system, but we already have one of them on our books and he''s 2 years younger than McCormack to boot.We have players that know how to pass a ball, we don''t have to keep insisting on playing a lone ''target man'' striker just because that''s the general trend in the game at the highest level, because it''s perfectly possible to take a different approach and get results. Just look at Bielsa with Chile, who else was playing a 3-3-1-3 formation in world football at that point? But they played some of the best and most exciting football in the game at that stage, they got the best out of the players available and their specific strengths, but they simply didn''t have quite enough overall quality to truly challenge the real heavyweights. Well, that''s pretty much where we are now. We have good players who aren''t quite strong enough to truly challenge the big names, so we need to be looking at alternatives that CAN work, until such point as we have the quality required to meet that current trend and challenge the other sides who do adopt that approach - assuming we want to.Now take a look at the following list:Fleck, Robins, McVeigh, Notman, Libbra, Neilsen, McKenzie, Earnie, Cureton, Jackson, Vaughan, Hooper, RvW, NaismithNotice something in common? NONE of them are/were target men, NONE of them would have suited a lone striker system requiring aerial strength, physicality, strong hold up play or overly proficient heading, and apart from RvW (and possibly Hooper on occasion) NONE of them were asked to play that role, especially seeing as how it simply wasn''t/isn''t the way to get the best from them, nor would it likely to have been particularly successful either, but because RvW got shoehorned into that role, it''s made him look FAR worse a player than he is in reality.Given good supply and support, RvW is easily a 15-20 goal striker when on form and fully fit, so I absolutely would support the choice of playing RvW correctly now, rather than paying through the nose for McCormack who is not only no better IMHO, he''s even more bloody expensive than RvW was!

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Forget RvW - he has no future at NCFC, as confirmed by respected posters via Steve Stone, the saga can finally conclude!.

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Indy that''s all very magmanamous, but RVW has scored 11 goals in 3 entire seasons, at 2 clubs playing many different systems.

Are you still confident that he''ll "suddenly come good" IF he has right supply and IF he''s played "in right system"

AN hasn''t fancied him last two seasons, and he isn''t proven at either Champ, or Prem level.

I''d still prefer MC (regardless of price) as he''s more than proven at this level. I''d still prefer MC over RVW with the quality of service you believe rest of team will provide. Risk of paying too much for proven striker (MC). OR Risk of yet again getting no return from our record transfer (RVW).

Case dismissed!

And yes, agree with list of previous NCFC strikers. MC would fit that bill too don''t you think.

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I don''t think many are arguing that McCormack isn''t a good player, however when will we start signing players who fit with our system. It is crazy to sign a natural No 10 if we are gong to persist with one up top (i know, maybe AN will change system). But If its Jerome or McCormack fighting for the one striker role, I feel Jerome will win out, we should be looking for the best player we can get to fit with how we play not just the best regardless.

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[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]I don''t think many are arguing that McCormack isn''t a good player, however when will we start signing players who fit with our system. It is crazy to sign a natural No 10 if we are gong to persist with one up top (i know, maybe AN will change system). But If its Jerome or McCormack fighting for the one striker role, I feel Jerome will win out, we should be looking for the best player we can get to fit with how we play not just the best regardless.[/quote]Finally someone gets it!If we''re going with the same approach, style of play and lone striker, then in truth there''s only Jerome (and possibly a VERY raw Morris) who really fit the parameters, and regardless of the view ref RvW, McCormack isn''t that type of player either, so what''s the logic here?This is why I pointed out earlier, that if we''re going to change the system to suit more of a No10/Goalpoacher or even a 2 man frontline, rather than playing with a lone out-and-out target man, then I think it''s crazy to spend that sort of cash on McCormack when I believe RvW (and even possibly Naismith/Murphy if we ignore RvW for now) could do the same, but if we''re not changing system, then surely it''s crazy to sign McCormack and either then bench him or more likely - force him into a role/style of play that negates his obvious strengths (which is exactly what Hughton did to our strikers), and thus most likely turning another proven striker into a bit of a dud (even though they''re not, they''re just being mis-played)!

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So, Indy, did the Betis and St Etienne managers "misplay" RvW? And how come Neil Adams and Alex Neil saw him in training etc but yet sanctioned a loan move? Why did Betis and St Etienne not try and buy him? Why has he failed for three seasons? Why has he been poor in this pre-season (Jerome and Naismith have been pretty good)? Why are we trying to buy another striker?

The answers to all these question boils down to the fact that''s he''s not very good. Alex Neil knows it. His previous managers and clubs of the last three years know it. Most Norwich fans that have watched him know it.

I''m amazed that you continue to make excuses for this ineffective striker, it''s baffling. Are you his agent, his mother? Or are you just blind to all the facts?

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]I don''t think many are arguing that McCormack isn''t a good player, however when will we start signing players who fit with our system. It is crazy to sign a natural No 10 if we are gong to persist with one up top (i know, maybe AN will change system). But If its Jerome or McCormack fighting for the one striker role, I feel Jerome will win out, we should be looking for the best player we can get to fit with how we play not just the best regardless.[/quote]Finally someone gets it!If we''re going with the same approach, style of play and lone striker, then in truth there''s only Jerome (and possibly a VERY raw Morris) who really fit the parameters, and regardless of the view ref RvW, McCormack isn''t that type of player either, so what''s the logic here?This is why I pointed out earlier, that if we''re going to change the system to suit more of a No10/Goalpoacher or even a 2 man frontline, rather than playing with a lone out-and-out target man, then I think it''s crazy to spend that sort of cash on McCormack when I believe RvW (and even possibly Naismith/Murphy if we ignore RvW for now) could do the same, but if we''re not changing system, then surely it''s crazy to sign McCormack and either then bench him or more likely - force him into a role/style of play that negates his obvious strengths (which is exactly what Hughton did to our strikers), and thus most likely turning another proven striker into a bit of a dud (even though they''re not, they''re just being mis-played)![/quote]Having read Indy_Bones admirable defence of RvW against widespread criticism, backed up I might add, imo, by a lot of very salient facts, we now have Yellowbeagle raising perhaps the most important point of the lot.  Unless AN changes the system, which is unlikely, for goodness sake when will we buy players to fit the system?  You''re in the minority chaps, but I''m with you![:)]

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