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Big Vince

Why No Outside Investment?

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"Of course, but I would much rather a club than has a more sustainable financial model, than hanker after a billionaire "investor" to pump money into financing mercenaries who only come to the club for money, rather than pride and playing reasons.

I guess it also depends on your definition of success."

My point really was that with more and more Championship clubs getting wealthier investors (not necessary "billionaires") then we are in danger of becoming left behind by maintaining our current status.

We might well lose out on Assomballonga for the sake of a million or two because we find ourselves in a position whereby we are unable to push the boat out that little bit further. Whether he is a "mercenary" or whether he would guarantee success is debatable but I sense that most on this forum would be disappointed if we lost out on this player because we couldn''t quite afford him.

My definition of success is for NCFC to become established in the Premier League. Whether this will eventually become an unreasonable aim under the current regime is also debatable but the way things are quickly moving at Championship level suggests that, as well as being the recognised paupers of the top table we could well find ourselves amongst those in the second tier.

We have parachutes to sustain our challenge at the moment but if we flounder and there becomes a suggestion that the Club is returning to the awful wilderness years of the Grant, Roeder, Gunn eras, with debt, a squad full of loan players and relegation to the third tier then I, for one, would prefer the "risk" of attempting to attract a wealthier backer.

Of course there will always be examples of this approach going ape-shite, and there have been many of those, including the Marcus Evans experience down the road, but would our future be any the less rosy than it might well become under the control of an out-dated model such as ours?

Regime change is not on my wish list at the moment, but if we are eventually to be wallowing amongst the Ipswich Towns in the mid-lower reaches of the Chumps then it might well be.

The OP has received a hammering in this thread. I remain more sympathetic to his views than most.

Times change.

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What if though, we aren''t actually getting left behind at all? What if we have actually been punching above our weight for some years now, and actually making not a bad job of things?

For every big list of negatives you can come up with I can counter with positives.

Imagine you were a Leeds fan, or Ipswich, or Forest or Derby. All clubs with history who probably see themselves as "bigger" than Norwich City.

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Also let''s not forget that our owners have been fans for a lot longer than a lot of us.

They aren''t just in this for for financial gain. Put yourself in their position, if it was your club would you just hand over total control to someone who pitches up and waves 20 or 30 million at you ( such as Tony fernandes) but wants total control. Knowing full well he''s only in it for profit? And he doesn''t give a flying fig about Norwich City?

Basically the ideal is another Delia, who has more money.

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Take ITFC out of that list for pity''s sake Mr. M.

The rest have some reason to feel hard done by.

You seem to be saying that whilst you come up with "what ifs?" I come up with "negatives."

I would suggest the opposite. I am coming up with the what ifs, whilst you seem unusually negative about our Club.

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Broadstairs not sure what you are really saying, on one hand you are coming across negatively towards the club, and then you are saying you are doing the opposite.

With regard to your earlier comment,quote

"that Wolves have emerged as shock rivals to Liverpool in the race for Benfica''s £21m rated midfielder Anderson Talisca. Yes, that''s right, a championship side linked with an offer of £21m.''

Our midfield could be coming up against £21m players sooner rather than later then."

I think you know that is rubbish, we could put out there that we have submitted a £100m bid for Bale, but we all know we would never sign him, and all Wolves are doing is giving their fans false hope.

Our club will at some point, next year, maybe 5 or 10 years time, who knows, will have a decision to make, someone will come along with an offer to but our club, but lets remain careful on what we wish for.

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Broady, I think Delia is something like the 45th richest football club owner in England & Wales. So if wealth is the yardstick then we need an owner in the top 17. Because however many weathy owners there are the PL will only accomodate 20 and 3 of them will be relegated.

So for me wealth is not the yardstick. Having a club I can identify with is the yardstick. Not just to happy clap my way through each season''s adventure but also to be part of the clubs great outreach into Norfolks community. Now I know in this age of globleisation local community is irrelevant to many. But the older I get the more I value those community ideals. I also accept, as I have in the past, that at some point the football club will take another path. I will still support it just as I did throughout the whole Robert Chase era including the many seasons of protest and disenchantment. But I know what I like best.

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It''s the time honoured debate about the merits or otherwise of big-time investment into football clubs Lessingham.

There are success stories and tales of woe, but probably mostly the former, with Bournemouth being the latest.

Whilst stating that regime change at Carrow Road is not currently on my agenda I will never exclude it whilst the pace of change in the game is being increasingly driven by big finance to the extent that we could well be left behind and therefore could once again drift back towards some of the more mundane periods of yesteryear, and all due to lack of money at the top.

Back to the backwater. I like ''punching above our weight'' and rumours of spending £13m on one player. Long may it continue ..... as we run out of parachute money.

Our current set-up is nice, it is cosy and really quite unique but it is gradually assuming that hint of nostalgia associated with Sunday morning church, warm beer and cricket on the village green. (tit.)

We do have to be careful what we wish for, but that works both ways.

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No one is saying Delia is the be all and end all, or that a regime change wouldn''t be welcome. But I''m saying it has to be the right change that''s for the good of the club, not just for the good of an investors dividends.

I wonder how many Ipswich fans wish they had never sold out to Evans?

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"No one is saying Delia is the be all and end all, or that a regime change wouldn''t be welcome. But I''m saying it has to be the right change that''s for the good of the club, not just for the good of an investors dividends."

Fair enough, but let''s hope that there doesn''t come a time when, like Wolves, we are forced to be less choosy and Mr. Lee''s millions become essential.

The situation at the Portaloo is quite unique whereby you have a wallet that is no longer prepared to open up.

The FFP rulings were used as the excuse for some time but these have now been relaxed and nothing has changed there.

Some still support him though, considering that he bailed the club out and is continuing to cover the losses, one way or another.

Small comfort aligned with small ambition then.

The main lesson from that hapless situation is that years in the Chumps leads to mounting debt, little transfer activity, turgid football and mid-table mediocrity.

So we again return to the, unpalatable for some, truth that we might one day need a wealthier owner ..... hopefully one more committed to our Club than Evans is to his.

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Only time will tell for Wolves and their fans, for us it is different I believe, that even when the wallet is eventually empty my view is our owners do genuinely care about this club much more than any return their investment may reap, and wont jump into bed with just the first wad of dosh to be waved under their noses.

Equally the level of support our club attracts in season ticket renewals year after year will be attractive, as will our stadium, and our history as an well run club in a fine city, the predators (and that''s what most are unless you find a local billionaire with yellow and green in his veins) will come circling in due course.

The lessons are strewn across football, in Scotland and England from non league to premier league, when our turn comes for change of owners it will be a strange time of uncertainty, false dawns and hopefully some improvements not otherwise achievable....... until then lets enjoy the ride, appreciate what we have and stand together as one.

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Thing is Broady, why worry about something that hasn''t happened yet?

Every fan of every single club will have gripes, hopes and desires to be more successful. But I genuinely believe, that if you were truly objective, we have more to be happy about, than aggrieved.

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So one on the one hand, we currently have a football club that identifies, draws from, and contributes back to, the local community. We also have matching owners, who genuinely care about the club and who put a lot of their own (limited, in footballing terms) personal wealth into the club knowing that it''s not an investment opportunity, but realistically money down the drain.

On the other hand, you have billionaire oligarchs and/or brand merchandisers who have zero connection to a club, and are simply in it for fame, power, or personal wealth. These sorts of owners are seemingly only interested in the biggest of clubs, and/or clubs in trendy UK locations.

Unless you can give me someone who fits the first camp and has huge wealth to spare, AND is willing to pump it into our club, then should we not get behind our current owners and enjoy the ride? At least they actually exist, unlike all these rich foreign "hinvestors" who are queueing up to buy the club but not until that nasty Delia steps aside...

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"But I genuinely believe, that if you were truly objective, we have more to be happy about, than aggrieved."

Unhappy? Moi?

We have just signed a very promising youngster from Liverpool for near on £3m.

McCarthy at Ipswich town is apparently considering taking on no lesser player than Elliot Bennett but he might be put off if the player carries a price tag.

Reasons to be cheerful abound, but let''s see how things go next season before we get carried away.

I am highly positive about our chances but remain wary of some of the big money signings that some of our rivals are making.

it''s the ability and the intent that they are showing that concerns me.

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BR (NOT A DIG AT YOU)I am highly positive about our chances but remain wary of some of the big money signings that some of our rivals are making.

it''s the ability and the intent that they are showing that concerns me.

The great thing about football is that big money signings alone do not guarantee success, its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog, so to speak.....

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Simple Lessingham.

We need a top class striker urgently.

A top class striker costs money, lots of it.

We need to spend big money then. A big money signing.

If we fail to do this then our rivals will have less reason to be wary of Norwich City in the coming season.

We might get a pup, but are more likely to get a dog (with fight) the more money we spend.

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I dont know the answer to the OP question, but personally, im completely satisfied that we have homegrown, local owners that are not just huge genuine fans of the club, but have thru the years, with some ups and downs admitedly,  have put  our club way higher positionally than we should ever had deserved, if you view it simply in terms of finance. On that basis alone, City have  been, and continue to be, one of the biggest and most successful clubs in the land. A club like ours is becoming rarer, all the more reason to give credit to Delia, and personally i would not want to see a unknown foreign  mega rich owner taking over.With Brexit, plus the huge amount of clubs with rich unknown backers  now, the future is so dang uncertain for this nations football clubs in general, i just feel more comfortable with our club in the hands of  people who care for it, nurture it, and over the years have run it mostly  successfully business wise. English clubs seem awash with money right now, but its not inconceivable in these uncertain times for it all to implode.in which case, id be  happier with a Delia in charge than some unknown Chinese or Russian owner.

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There have "apparently" been plenty of interested parties. Unfortunately, those in the know reckon that Delia rebuffs such interest as standard.

I''m not sure why none of these folk have gone to the press. If it was to come out that the club were seeing fit to turn their back on millions and millions of pounds worth of investment to facilitate Delia and Michael remaining "top dogs", there''d surely be uproar amongst the fans and support for any investor would soar.

Makes no sense does it?

Someone should really bite the bullet and ask Delia to fess up. Though, to be fair, if she''s undermining the health of Norwich City like that and deliberately holding us back, why would we believe anything she says?

Darren Eadie knows that people have wanted to invest and so do plenty of other people "close" to the boardroom. It''s time these beans were spilled.

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[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]There have "apparently" been plenty of interested parties. Unfortunately, those in the know reckon that Delia rebuffs such interest as standard.

I''m not sure why none of these folk have gone to the press. If it was to come out that the club were seeing fit to turn their back on millions and millions of pounds worth of investment to facilitate Delia and Michael remaining "top dogs", there''d surely be uproar amongst the fans and support for any investor would soar.

Makes no sense does it?

Someone should really bite the bullet and ask Delia to fess up. Though, to be fair, if she''s undermining the health of Norwich City like that and deliberately holding us back, why would we believe anything she says?

Darren Eadie knows that people have wanted to invest and so do plenty of other people "close" to the boardroom. It''s time these beans were spilled.[/quote]

Why do we have to be told anything?   I''m quite happy to let the club decide what is best and decide who is worthy of consideration for being allowed to invest in the club. All it would do by letting fans know every time someone expressed an interest, is create an atmosphere of uncertainty, rumour and divisiveness.   We know who has the most shares and it is up to them to decide who is fit and proper to come in.  Its not about money - its about the long term well being of the club and just because miscellaneous disconnected Joe Bloggses come along with some money every so often, does not mean that it should be public knowlegde.   If a serious contender came along who fitted the ethos of the club, then yes, it would be right to find out about it and if someone who cared about the club was really serious about investing, then that would probably become known anyway.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Duncan Edwards"]There have "apparently" been plenty of interested parties. Unfortunately, those in the know reckon that Delia rebuffs such interest as standard.

I''m not sure why none of these folk have gone to the press. If it was to come out that the club were seeing fit to turn their back on millions and millions of pounds worth of investment to facilitate Delia and Michael remaining "top dogs", there''d surely be uproar amongst the fans and support for any investor would soar.

Makes no sense does it?

Someone should really bite the bullet and ask Delia to fess up. Though, to be fair, if she''s undermining the health of Norwich City like that and deliberately holding us back, why would we believe anything she says?

Darren Eadie knows that people have wanted to invest and so do plenty of other people "close" to the boardroom. It''s time these beans were spilled.[/quote]

Why do we have to be told anything?   I''m quite happy to let the club decide what is best and decide who is worthy of consideration for being allowed to invest in the club. All it would do by letting fans know every time someone expressed an interest, is create an atmosphere of uncertainty, rumour and divisiveness.   We know who has the most shares and it is up to them to decide who is fit and proper to come in.  Its not about money - its about the long term well being of the club and just because miscellaneous disconnected Joe Bloggses come along with some money every so often, does not mean that it should be public knowlegde.   If a serious contender came along who fitted the ethos of the club, then yes, it would be right to find out about it and if someone who cared about the club was really serious about investing, then that would probably become known anyway.

[/quote]
Come on LDC, it was clear from a mile away [:D]

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Duncan Edwards"]There have "apparently" been plenty of interested parties. Unfortunately, those in the know reckon that Delia rebuffs such interest as standard.

I''m not sure why none of these folk have gone to the press. If it was to come out that the club were seeing fit to turn their back on millions and millions of pounds worth of investment to facilitate Delia and Michael remaining "top dogs", there''d surely be uproar amongst the fans and support for any investor would soar.

Makes no sense does it?

Someone should really bite the bullet and ask Delia to fess up. Though, to be fair, if she''s undermining the health of Norwich City like that and deliberately holding us back, why would we believe anything she says?

Darren Eadie knows that people have wanted to invest and so do plenty of other people "close" to the boardroom. It''s time these beans were spilled.[/quote]

Why do we have to be told anything?   I''m quite happy to let the club decide what is best and decide who is worthy of consideration for being allowed to invest in the club. All it would do by letting fans know every time someone expressed an interest, is create an atmosphere of uncertainty, rumour and divisiveness.   We know who has the most shares and it is up to them to decide who is fit and proper to come in.  Its not about money - its about the long term well being of the club and just because miscellaneous disconnected Joe Bloggses come along with some money every so often, does not mean that it should be public knowlegde.   If a serious contender came along who fitted the ethos of the club, then yes, it would be right to find out about it and if someone who cared about the club was really serious about investing, then that would probably become known anyway.

[/quote]

In this day and age the club really ought to be more transparent. But Delia and Wynnie really do run a socialist autocracy at Carrow Road. Information management is so tightly controlled by that communications tsar the boy Ferrari that the club never attracts any adverse comment from those who have dealings with it. Potential buyers no doubt have to sign a confidentiality clause just to approach Delia.

The club could do with a dose of democratisation. On the continent, football club presidents and boards have to be elected and fans often own 51% of the shares. In these scenarios there is a football constituency that has to be served and so it is not possible to have club secrets and the Tyranny of the One (or Stowmarket Two).

Moreover, if there was an independent nominations sub-committee of the main board, its members would have the job of sourcing the most able people onto the main board so as to avert the kind of blatant nepotism and cronyism that we have seen displayed recently.

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[quote user="Big Vince"]On the continent, football club presidents and boards have to be elected and fans often own 51% of the shares.[/quote]There''s yer answer then Vinnie, just get a few of your mates together and raise the funds to buy Delia''s 51% shareholding. You''d even be in a position to offer Chase his old job back. [Y]

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Fast forward 12 months.

Norwich City have been re-promoted again.

Delia & Wynnie do not have the money to build an EPL club.

They refuse to admit any investors.

They can only afford Championship players not Premier League players.

Result: relegation, again.

Question1: How will Norwich City ever build an EPL club unless there is a change of ownership accompanied by much bigger investment?

Question2: How many more relegations and promotions will it take before problem and solution are identified?

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Vince, have you got absolute proof that Delia and MWJ have "refused" to admit any and all investors.If they accepted a large amount of money for the sale of the club/their shares to a consortium from China, for example, who, a few years down the line, oversaw a club in the same sort of predicament as Hull or Blackpool, would you then blame them for taking the money after insisting, for all this time, that they do when an offer is forthcoming?Additionally, you keep on mentioning "investment"-so how would you propose the investor made a profit/got a return on his/her investment and how long do you think it would take for them to realise that?Finally, as they are, remember, investors, and if and when they paid themselves an enormous dividend as a result of that investment from any profits made which ended up preventing the club from buying new players else putting money into Colney or to ground improvements, would you blame them for doing that or Delia and Michael for selling out to them?

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[quote user="Old Shuck"]Vince, have you got absolute proof that Delia and MWJ have "refused" to admit any and all investors.If they accepted a large amount of money for the sale of the club/their shares to a consortium from China, for example, who, a few years down the line, oversaw a club in the same sort of predicament as Hull or Blackpool, would you then blame them for taking the money after insisting, for all this time, that they do when an offer is forthcoming?Additionally, you keep on mentioning "investment"-so how would you propose the investor made a profit/got a return on his/her investment and how long do you think it would take for them to realise that?Finally, as they are, remember, investors, and if and when they paid themselves an enormous dividend as a result of that investment from any profits made which ended up preventing the club from buying new players else putting money into Colney or to ground improvements, would you blame them for doing that or Delia and Michael for selling out to them?[/quote]

Well, let us suppose that Peter Coates was cloned and the cloned version put himself forward as the new owner of Norwich City and he then went on to do the same job at Norwich as the original at Stoke, would anyone be apportioning blame in the way that you suggest?

Ditto the Southampton owners

Ditto the West Ham United owners

Ditto the Leicester City owners

Ditto the West Bromwich Albion owner

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