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Matt Morriss

Naismith's got to go

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[quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Feedthewolf"]Interesting – if we can recoup what we paid for him (or even a bit more) then it wouldn''t be bad business. If he''s offered an opportunity to play for Moyes in the Premier League on (presumably) higher wages then I can''t imagine he wouldn''t be interested in that.[/quote]Agreed.Re-couping Naismith''s fee would also cover the cost of the Pritchard signing, and thus potentially giving us even greater funds to find the elusive striker or two we''re all desperate for![/quote]Plus more game time for Canos, Maddison and the Murphy twins to blossom... win-win. The more I think about this, the more I think it would be excellent for everyone involved.[/quote]I can''t agree there.  Seeing how Naismith played with Wes on Saturday makes me think it would be detrimental to our season if he went. Terrific  team player and to me it looks as if he uses all his experience and know how to help get the best from his teamates, as well as get in good scoring positions himself.  The link up play was terrific and he was a key part of that.  We need him to stay.  The young players will get their chances and they will benefit more from him being here than if he goes. 

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January window last season AN was looking to strengthen the squad to stay in the Premiership. When it was known we were after Naismith, I was probably one of a few that didn''t want him here. The reasons (1) - I didn''t think he would improve our squad & (2) there was a massive risk if we acquired him, AN would be forced to play him - in a position replacing one of our key players - Hoolahan. Leaving Hoolahan out of the team would seal our relegation - like it did 2 seasons earlier. This was an opinion only. It derived from realising how pivotal & important Hoolahan is to the team & that Naismith does not come within a country mile of him.

AN had recruited Naismith to score goals. This is also an opinion but we assume this because the team was lacking goals & he scored a few for Everton.

Naismith had a few good games for us - playing alongside Hoolahan. But when Hoolahan was left out for Naismith - this was when he was badly exposed & it was then that people realise we had nothing but a plodder. Both of these are opinions only. But opinions are formed through sound intelligent assessment after watching the player.

Facts now:

Hoolahan started 25 games & Redmond 24 games only with Naismith taking the place of Hoolahan on most occasions - we are relegated from the Premiership - fact.

Naismith scores 1 goal - he was bought in for his goalscoring prowess - fact. (Other players such as RVW have been shafted for scoring just one goal).

Without Hoolahan we were toothless. Naismith looked totally out of his depth. The team lacked any direction & resorted to hoof ball - these are facts ! Unless you were not at the games or did not comprehend what was happening in front of you.

We have now covered "opinions" & "facts". I suppose you lot will now explore "excuses".

Anyone can look good if he is surrounded by good players - opinion or fact ?

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[quote user="lake district canary"]I can''t agree there.  Seeing how Naismith played with Wes on Saturday makes me think it would be detrimental to our season if he went. Terrific  team player and to me it looks as if he uses all his experience and know how to help get the best from his teamates, as well as get in good scoring positions himself.  The link up play was terrific and he was a key part of that.  We need him to stay.  The young players will get their chances and they will benefit more from him being here than if he goes.[/quote]I''m not averse to Naismith staying at all, Lakey – I was more commenting on the rumour itself. If Sunderland try to buy him and he wants to go (reunion with Moyes, PL football, PL wages), it might be better to cash in now. Those young players will benefit from playing with Wes, who is far and away our most effective attacking player in recent times. Wes and Naismith together could be great this season, but if Naismith did want to leave then it wouldn''t be the end of the world.

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Is that like "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound"?

Apples

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So a Black cat scout was at the game Saturday...big deal, means nothing. Lets wait and see if a bid for Naismith is even made. My opinion?..he will stay. Hes a guy who is up for a cause, hes stated his intent to fight for City, he gets regular football here and dont forget, above all that is what he desires most.Have my opinions on how he did here end of last season, but will not air them, its unimportant, last season is history, its the here and now that matters. Love the guy, hes playing well, has now a scary understanding with Wes, even if both get crocked we now have tremendous players to come in. For me, he''s as important to City as Pinto and Klose, is why i enthuse about the January signings, despite City''s non appearance at so many games  after January. Enthuse about the signings this window to  to be honest also, an area where Alex has done fantastically well.With Jez Moxey now on board, the push is to get that elusive striker...or two. Even without those, City can and will score goals from many guys, including Naismith. Got  to go?...ridiculous.

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[quote user="Lessingham Canary"]This thread should be renamed now "Naismith''s got to stay"[/quote]

He''s GOT to stay now G! 😂😂😂

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I think Six Pack should look up "conjecture" in the dictionary...that''s assuming he can read.

Apples

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Had a bit of a thought now that perhaps Pritchard is Naismiths replacement as opposed to Brady''s...

Kind of would like all 3 to be Norwich players come september but if we could get at least our £8m back for Naismith it''d be hard to turn down provided we kept Brady to play left wing with Pritch challenging both for a place either on the left or centrally.

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[quote user="Six Pack"].

Naismith had a few good games for us - playing alongside Hoolahan. But when Hoolahan was left out for Naismith - this was when he was badly exposed & it was then that people realise we had nothing but a plodder.

Hoolahan started 25 games & Redmond 24 games only with Naismith taking the place of Hoolahan on most occasions - we are relegated from the Premiership  [/quote]

The reason Naismith looks better when Hoolahan is in the team is because Naismith at Everton was used to having better players around him and having our most creative player on the pitch with him is bound to bring out the best in him.  The Hoolahan/Naismith partnership could grow into something really special and with both of them performing at their peak, we can get ahead in games then either or both can be subbed to save their energies for the long hard season - and we have plenty of quality in the squad to make that a realistic proposition.  Naismith a plodder? No. To start with he wasn''t fully fit last season and is more like a class act who needs the best players around him to get him at his best game. They can''t all be George Best and win games on their own.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Six Pack"].

Naismith had a few good games for us - playing alongside Hoolahan. But when Hoolahan was left out for Naismith - this was when he was badly exposed & it was then that people realise we had nothing but a plodder.

Hoolahan started 25 games & Redmond 24 games only with Naismith taking the place of Hoolahan on most occasions - we are relegated from the Premiership  [/quote]

The reason Naismith looks better when Hoolahan is in the team is because Naismith at Everton was used to having better players around him and having our most creative player on the pitch with him is bound to bring out the best in him.  The Hoolahan/Naismith partnership could grow into something really special and with both of them performing at their peak, we can get ahead in games then either or both can be subbed to save their energies for the long hard season - and we have plenty of quality in the squad to make that a realistic proposition.  Naismith a plodder? No. To start with he wasn''t fully fit last season and is more like a class act who needs the best players around him to get him at his best game. They can''t all be George Best and win games on their own.

[/quote]
[Y]

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I doubt we would sell him, we are better off having him imo. Hoolahan won''t be able to play every game this season, Alex Neil recognized that last season and there are more games to play this campaign. I understand we have talented back up with Maddison and Pritchard, but there''s still 45 games to go with cup competitions, Alex Neil has talked about the importance of having a strong squad, so my gut feeling is that we''ll keep him even though getting our money back would be good business. I would rather get rid of Andreu and Mulumbu first.

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[quote user="Six Pack"]January window last season AN was looking to strengthen the squad to stay in the Premiership. When it was known we were after Naismith, I was probably one of a few that didn''t want him here. The reasons (1) - I didn''t think he would improve our squad & (2) there was a massive risk if we acquired him, AN would be forced to play him - in a position replacing one of our key players - Hoolahan. Leaving Hoolahan out of the team would seal our relegation - like it did 2 seasons earlier. This was an opinion only. It derived from realising how pivotal & important Hoolahan is to the team & that Naismith does not come within a country mile of him.

AN had recruited Naismith to score goals. This is also an opinion but we assume this because the team was lacking goals & he scored a few for Everton.

Naismith had a few good games for us - playing alongside Hoolahan. But when Hoolahan was left out for Naismith - this was when he was badly exposed & it was then that people realise we had nothing but a plodder. Both of these are opinions only. But opinions are formed through sound intelligent assessment after watching the player.

Facts now:

Hoolahan started 25 games & Redmond 24 games only with Naismith taking the place of Hoolahan on most occasions - we are relegated from the Premiership - fact.

Naismith scores 1 goal - he was bought in for his goalscoring prowess - fact. (Other players such as RVW have been shafted for scoring just one goal).

Without Hoolahan we were toothless. Naismith looked totally out of his depth. The team lacked any direction & resorted to hoof ball - these are facts ! Unless you were not at the games or did not comprehend what was happening in front of you.

We have now covered "opinions" & "facts". I suppose you lot will now explore "excuses".

Anyone can look good if he is surrounded by good players - opinion or fact ?[/quote]

Would you?

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Webbo19, interesting question - and my answer would be that if you have a reasonable level of fitness then you can. I partnered John Fashanu up front in my school team, and alongside him I used to score quite a few thanks to him setting me up. This opened up a number of opportunities for me to play in other non-school teams, which I usually turned down.

However when I went to another school I never came within a sniff of making that first team as there was no-one of similar quality there to help me out The other opportunities for playing also dried up and I decided to pursue adventures off the pitch in rock and roll instead.

Never look back......

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Naismith was awful last season and made no discernible contribution to our one aim last season of staying up in there.

What a total waste of £8m+ he proved to be.

Excuses such as match fitness/fitness aside if he continues to make a considerable contribution to our success this season then AN''s pursuit of the player will have been justified as money well spent.

He''s no ball artist though so as a compliment to the skills of Hoolahan it would seem to be likely to work at this level.

We might well have hit upon a useful little combination to thought the bus-parking we will encounter at Carrow Road this season.

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[quote user="Feedthewolf"]I accept that it''s entirely unproductive to get bogged down in semantics here, and I accept that it''s a fair assumption to say that we can agree Naismith was poor last season. My annoyance was with the OP''s reliance upon dubious ''facts'' to try and back up his increasingly outspoken and unpopular opinions.Let''s leave it there and hope that Naismith can continue his positive start to the season.[/quote]

Outspoken opinions on a messageboard. Who would have thought it.

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[quote user="Feedthewolf"]I accept that it''s entirely unproductive to get bogged down in semantics here, and I accept that it''s a fair assumption to say that we can agree Naismith was poor last season. My annoyance was with the OP''s reliance upon dubious ''facts'' to try and back up his increasingly outspoken and unpopular opinions.Let''s leave it there and hope that Naismith can continue his positive start to the season.[/quote]

And what ''dubious facts'' would they be Wolf? The FACT that Naismith was poor last season? Or the FACT that Wes in current goalscoring form is a better bet in the central role?

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[quote user="chicken"]Just to throw a little fuel to the fire, Naismith wasn''t "poor" last season, he was inconsistant. There is quite a difference.

He showed glimpses of his ability but he wasn''t properly fit IMHO.

He was fantastic against Liverpool - one of the outstanding performers.

That said, there are few players that were not inconsistant in the latter stages of the season, so do you attribute that to individual players or the collective?[/quote]

Disagree with this Chicken, Naismith wasnt inconsistent at all, in fact the opposite is true. He consistently failed to deliver. He had one good game v Liverpool.

This is why he was eventually dropped.

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[quote user="king canary"]It isn''t really about facts vs opinions or how you think he played last season.

It''s about the fact that getting so annoyed about a performance in a FRIENDLY that someone starts a thread saying he''s ''got to go.''

That is whats ridiculous.[/quote]

Christ KC have i got to explain it for a 3rd time?

The post is more a comment on his performances last season, of which the friendly was a perfect example. He looked the same old ineffective Naismith v Hannover, it annoyed the hell out of me and just reminded me of how poor he was last season, and i was not looking forward to more of the same this season.

Thankfully he was a different player v Blackburn compared to last season and long may it continue.

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[quote user="Feedthewolf"]Hoooooly sh*t this boy has got some issues.[/quote]

Brilliant Wolf

any chance of an attempt to contribute to the debate or are you just going to resort to playground antagonistic taunts, something of which perhaps a ''boy'' would do...

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I understand that. However clearly what triggered you to create this post and decide he''s ''got to go'' was the friendly. Otherwise you would have posted this in June. Which you didn''t.

I wasn''t delighted with his performances last season but along with most sensible people I know decided to give him a chance this season, to actually see if it would be ''more of the same this season.''

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[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"][quote user="Feedthewolf"]I accept that it''s entirely unproductive to get bogged down in semantics here, and I accept that it''s a fair assumption to say that we can agree Naismith was poor last season. My annoyance was with the OP''s reliance upon dubious ''facts'' to try and back up his increasingly outspoken and unpopular opinions.Let''s leave it there and hope that Naismith can continue his positive start to the season.[/quote]

And what ''dubious facts'' would they be Wolf? The FACT that Naismith was poor last season? Or the FACT that Wes in current goalscoring form is a better bet in the central role?[/quote]

What goal scoring form? He''s scored one goal this season, same as Naismith

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[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"][quote user="Feedthewolf"]Hoooooly sh*t this boy has got some issues.[/quote]

Brilliant Wolf

any chance of an attempt to contribute to the debate or are you just going to resort to playground antagonistic taunts, something of which perhaps a ''boy'' would do...[/quote]I''ve made plenty of contributions to this and many other debates. I know when I''m wasting my time. Enjoy your evening.

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[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"][quote user="king canary"]It isn''t really about facts vs opinions or how you think he played last season.

It''s about the fact that getting so annoyed about a performance in a FRIENDLY that someone starts a thread saying he''s ''got to go.''

That is whats ridiculous.[/quote]

Christ KC have i got to explain it for a 3rd time?

The post is more a comment on his performances last season, of which the friendly was a perfect example. He looked the same old ineffective Naismith v Hannover, it annoyed the hell out of me and just reminded me of how poor he was last season, and i was not looking forward to more of the same this season.

Thankfully he was a different player v Blackburn compared to last season and long may it continue.[/quote]

Yet Alex Neil was telling us how good he was but just not match fit - did you doubt his words ?

Looks like due to negative fans like you he will now be off to Sunderland a huge kick in the teeth to our promotion chances. Another scapegoat departs the club ?

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Dont know if Sunderland could or would trigger the supposed release clause in Naismith''s contract, but if that happened ad they took him, in 9 months time its not unfeasible for City and Sunderland to switch divisions. Sunderland have escaped relegation many times in last few seasons, but, like Wigan, that could end, especially now they are minus Big Sam.Anycase, i view things that Naismith has bought into the Canary cause, he said he would stay and hes not the kind of guy who often says one thing and does another. All this opinionating about him  last season is pointless, its about  now, and what he can do this season for City.

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[quote user="Mickdundee"][quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"][quote user="Feedthewolf"]I accept that it''s entirely unproductive to get bogged down in semantics here, and I accept that it''s a fair assumption to say that we can agree Naismith was poor last season. My annoyance was with the OP''s reliance upon dubious ''facts'' to try and back up his increasingly outspoken and unpopular opinions.Let''s leave it there and hope that Naismith can continue his positive start to the season.[/quote]

And what ''dubious facts'' would they be Wolf? The FACT that Naismith was poor last season? Or the FACT that Wes in current goalscoring form is a better bet in the central role?[/quote]

What goal scoring form? He''s scored one goal this season, same as Naismith[/quote]

Errrrrrrrr 1 in the Euro''s, 3 in pre season, 1 v Blackburn......

Like i said, goalscoring form

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