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TIL 1010

The Wallet Is Empty.

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Posted this on here quite a while ago that i had been told by 2 in the know people that the stories of the clubs finances hold some weight

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Well Toon are spending the money on top of the sizeable amounts they spent last season.

Another ''keeper, Matt Ritchie @ £10m and they are after Gayle.

Where''s it all coming from?

Don''t answer that question because it''s better the devil you know.

(Looks like that''s number one spot taken care of then.)

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With the players we are being linked with we will be lucky to make the top 10 . Only Norwich could have 4 out of the last 5 seasons in the Premier League spend peanuts and still be broke .

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Funny reading this post, I spoke to someone connected with the club who reckoned that behind the scenes the feeling is very optimistic about next season. Whilst Brady might be sold if a big bid comes in, no other players are reportedly wanting to leave, including Klose who has said he wants to stay. Most players will probably give us until January and if we are not challenging move on, which is fair enough in my eyes.

He also said that the club do not have to sell, and that Redmond asked to leave when told about Southampton''s bid - but from what I gather discussions of his departure had been ongoing. Brady is a bit up in the air at the moment, but all the players have a good relationship with Alex so might give him a chance next season. The club is financially fine and no players need to leave before we can buy. From what I''ve been told there''s a few things already ongoing, so I guess we will have to wait and see.

There seemed a bit of surprise about Holt''s departure, I''m not sure if there was disagreements between himself and AN, but his long term ambition is to manage so being a number 2 isn''t for him anymore.

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[quote user="Pompey Canary"]The psychology of these threads where people pretend to be in the know and make up this stuff is interesting. Looks like inclusion issues from a traumatic childhood resurfacing.

I would treat any thread where the source isn''t named as highly dubious[/quote]This. ^^^

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]Well Toon are spending the money on top of the sizeable amounts they spent last season. Another ''keeper, Matt Ritchie @ £10m and they are after Gayle. Where''s it all coming from? Don''t answer that question because it''s better the devil you know. (Looks like that''s number one spot taken care of then.)[/quote]

 

Receiving £13M for Andros Townsend will help.

 

 

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[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]No need to worry. Once we get the money in from the American camera firm as new shirt sponsors we''ll be fine.[/quote][:D]

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Taking the OP''s info at face value, we''d fallen so far behind that we tried to gamble our way out, similar to a punter trying to chase their losses.We lost the gamble and are now facing the consequences, ie having to replace more aging players, and do it in shorter timeframe with a smaller budget than would have otherwise been the case.Quality will inevitably suffer, and it could take several years to rebuild.

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My only concerns on the cash flow side of things are the drop in value of the pound means any outstanding payments in Euro suddenly become 20% more than budgeted for and the fact our season ticket income will be lower than previous years following the 3 year season tickets that were sold, but I can''t quantify that as I don''t know what the uptake on them was (though I seem to remember hearing they''d sold out). Big sales and accepting a loss this year would be sufficient to get the few extra players we need imo.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Pompey Canary"]The psychology of these threads where people pretend to be in the know and make up this stuff is interesting. Looks like inclusion issues from a traumatic childhood resurfacing.

I would treat any thread where the source isn''t named as highly dubious[/quote]This. ^^^[/quote]I understand the sentiment (if not the psychology) but naming sources is a sure-fire way to stop hearing anything worthwhile. Around November last year I postedy year I posted that a senior figure with detailed knowledge of the club''s finances had suggested we might have to adjust our financial model to try to break the yo-yo cycle and so cement a place in the Premier League. Pretty much exactly what Parma has said on this thread has now happened. I was only told that because the source knew I could be trusted not to reveal who they were or from where the information had come.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Pompey Canary"]The psychology of these threads where people pretend to be in the know and make up this stuff is interesting. Looks like inclusion issues from a traumatic childhood resurfacing.

I would treat any thread where the source isn''t named as highly dubious[/quote]This. ^^^[/quote]I understand the sentiment (if not the psychology) but naming sources is a sure-fire way to stop hearing anything worthwhile. Around November last year I postedy year I posted that a senior figure with detailed knowledge of the club''s finances had suggested we might have to adjust our financial model to try to break the yo-yo cycle and so cement a place in the Premier League. Pretty much exactly what Parma has said on this thread has now happened. I was only told that because the source knew I could be trusted not to reveal who they were or from where the information had come.[/quote]I don''t disagree.But you have to question the logic, and the validity, of anyone at the football club who spills his guts to someone who just can''t wait to shoot his mouth off on an internet forum. Why would they do that, what sense could it possibly make?

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I shall reiterate a point I made on a similar thread recently.I simply do not understand why people, who support Norwich City, fall over themselves to spout anything slightly negative they hear about the club. Especially if it is information that could have a potential risk towards business and transfer dealings.I just don''t get the logic, I really don''t.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Pompey Canary"]The psychology of these threads where people pretend to be in the know and make up this stuff is interesting. Looks like inclusion issues from a traumatic childhood resurfacing.

I would treat any thread where the source isn''t named as highly dubious[/quote]This. ^^^[/quote]I understand the sentiment (if not the psychology) but naming sources is a sure-fire way to stop hearing anything worthwhile. Around November last year I postedy year I posted that a senior figure with detailed knowledge of the club''s finances had suggested we might have to adjust our financial model to try to break the yo-yo cycle and so cement a place in the Premier League. Pretty much exactly what Parma has said on this thread has now happened. I was only told that because the source knew I could be trusted not to reveal who they were or from where the information had come.[/quote]I don''t disagree.But you have to question the logic, and the validity, of anyone at the football club who spills his guts to someone who just can''t wait to shoot his mouth off on an internet forum. Why would they do that, what sense could it possibly make?[/quote]If what is being leaked is pure mischief-making, then I agree. But not everything is badly-intentioned. Sometimes the fans are being done a service by being informed of whatever it is.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Pompey Canary"]The psychology of these threads where people pretend to be in the know and make up this stuff is interesting. Looks like inclusion issues from a traumatic childhood resurfacing.

I would treat any thread where the source isn''t named as highly dubious[/quote]This. ^^^[/quote]I understand the sentiment (if not the psychology) but naming sources is a sure-fire way to stop hearing anything worthwhile. Around November last year I postedy year I posted that a senior figure with detailed knowledge of the club''s finances had suggested we might have to adjust our financial model to try to break the yo-yo cycle and so cement a place in the Premier League. Pretty much exactly what Parma has said on this thread has now happened. I was only told that because the source knew I could be trusted not to reveal who they were or from where the information had come.[/quote]I don''t disagree.But you have to question the logic, and the validity, of anyone at the football club who spills his guts to someone who just can''t wait to shoot his mouth off on an internet forum. Why would they do that, what sense could it possibly make?[/quote]If what is being leaked is pure mischief-making, then I agree. But not everything is badly-intentioned. Sometimes the fans are being done a service by being informed of whatever it is.[/quote]Can you explain to me what value there is in an employee of the club, in basically broadcasting, albeit indirectly, to the entire interweb, that Norwich City are broke?

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Makes the fans lower their expectations on the summer signings, that''s the only thing I can think off.

To be honest it''s not rocket science we paid out a shite load on wages, transfer fees and loan payments in January, we got relegated and should be even or slightly broke! At least the board gave it a full financial go to stay up!

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[quote user="Indy"]Makes the fans lower their expectations on the summer signings, that''s the only thing I can think off.

To be honest it''s not rocket science we paid out a shite load on wages, transfer fees and loan payments in January, we got relegated and should be even or slightly broke! At least the board gave it a full financial go to stay up![/quote]And strengthens agents bargaining....

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[quote user="Parma Hams gone mouldy"]As Bethnal and Purple have both intimated, this is true and not true. A significant outlay was made in January, with investments in players and wages that were intended for Premier League football. A necessary and calculated gamble was taken against a backdrop of a good manager, a reasonable league position, an opportunity for high returns and a relatively stable squad. It was more aggressive than previously, though not without reason and context. The boardroom time has inevitably changed and there is more of a recognition that variables in the competition - and the artificial benefits that some of them have - means that the previously accepted back-stop model of yo-yo, too-good-for-the-championship via stable, organic development is not now such a clear safety net model as it was perceived to be previously. The money was spent in January and the ongoing commitment to wages is often far more significant that headline transfer fees. To retain Naismith and Klose - for example - means to continue to accept the exposure to their full contracts and the amortisation of their fees across that contract. A total outlay of c£25m (say). The expendable departures of Redmond and Brady fill some of the immediate cash hole disparity between Prem and Champs funding, whilst the club absorbs the risk of holding on to high value players (again amortising the depreciation of their assets and inherent risks in this). For fans to portray this as ''lacking in ambition'' is to grossly misunderstand the realities of running the Company. We have been contextually ambitious and if we go - arguably - backwards a little (vid Redmond and Brady), this will nonetheless remain ambitious in the context of both the sporting level we find ourselves at and in terms of the massive revenue drop the club must now negotiate. Parma[/quote]

 

Parma, I''m not the brightest.  But I think you''re saying that we need to sell Redmond and Brady to cover the cost of keeping the rest of the squad together in the championship ?

 

I''m going to try to use the phrase "contextually ambitious" at least once a day from now on.

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[quote user="Its Character Forming"]

[quote user="Parma Hams gone mouldy"]As Bethnal and Purple have both intimated, this is true and not true. A significant outlay was made in January, with investments in players and wages that were intended for Premier League football. A necessary and calculated gamble was taken against a backdrop of a good manager, a reasonable league position, an opportunity for high returns and a relatively stable squad. It was more aggressive than previously, though not without reason and context. The boardroom time has inevitably changed and there is more of a recognition that variables in the competition - and the artificial benefits that some of them have - means that the previously accepted back-stop model of yo-yo, too-good-for-the-championship via stable, organic development is not now such a clear safety net model as it was perceived to be previously. The money was spent in January and the ongoing commitment to wages is often far more significant that headline transfer fees. To retain Naismith and Klose - for example - means to continue to accept the exposure to their full contracts and the amortisation of their fees across that contract. A total outlay of c£25m (say). The expendable departures of Redmond and Brady fill some of the immediate cash hole disparity between Prem and Champs funding, whilst the club absorbs the risk of holding on to high value players (again amortising the depreciation of their assets and inherent risks in this). For fans to portray this as ''lacking in ambition'' is to grossly misunderstand the realities of running the Company. We have been contextually ambitious and if we go - arguably - backwards a little (vid Redmond and Brady), this will nonetheless remain ambitious in the context of both the sporting level we find ourselves at and in terms of the massive revenue drop the club must now negotiate. Parma[/quote]

 

Parma, I''m not the brightest.  But I think you''re saying that we need to sell Redmond and Brady to cover the cost of keeping the rest of the squad together in the championship ?

 

I''m going to try to use the phrase "contextually ambitious" at least once a day from now on.

[/quote]I think that is pretty obvious really.Hopefully we''ll sign someone soon, and we can put to bed this notion that we won''t sign one single player...

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We will probably have more idea when the accounts are published.However, it would not surprise me in the least if the board "pushed it" as far a they dare in the hope of staying in the premier league - many on here would criticise them if they had not. There''s no point in retaining it "just in case" as it would be taxed as a profit!I think that it would be a fair assumption of them to have made that a few would move on in the event of relegation generating some funds to freshen the squad. If we lose Brady + say Ollsen and Bennett as has been suggested we imo still start this season with a stronger squad than the one we had at the beginning of last season.

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[quote user="morty"]

Can you explain to me what value there is in an employee of the club, in basically broadcasting, albeit indirectly, to the entire interweb, that Norwich City are broke?[/quote]Assuming that is what happened the question really needs to be put to the person concerned (who might in this case not - strictly speaking - be an employee. None of the directors is currently an employee).But if I was told from a source I trusted, with factual confirmation (and ideally with confirmation from a second source) significant negative news about the club''s finances I would certainly post that here. One has hardly been able to rely on Archant to do that job, and the club has a PR team to highlight all the good news and airbrush or stay silent on the bad. The value is that it informs fans of something that is highly relevant to them as supporters.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"]

Can you explain to me what value there is in an employee of the club, in basically broadcasting, albeit indirectly, to the entire interweb, that Norwich City are broke?[/quote]Assuming that is what happened the question really needs to be put to the person concerned (who might in this case not - strictly speaking - be an employee. None of the directors is currently an employee).But if I was told from a source I trusted, with factual confirmation (and ideally with confirmation from a second source) significant negative news about the club''s finances I would certainly post that here. One has hardly been able to rely on Archant to do that job, and the club has a PR team to highlight all the good news and airbrush or stay silent on the bad. The value is that it informs fans of something that is highly relevant to them as supporters.[/quote]Nah, sorry, I will never see the logic in spreading tittle tattle that could be potentially damaging to Norwich City.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"]

Can you explain to me what value there is in an employee of the club, in basically broadcasting, albeit indirectly, to the entire interweb, that Norwich City are broke?[/quote]Assuming that is what happened the question really needs to be put to the person concerned (who might in this case not - strictly speaking - be an employee. None of the directors is currently an employee).But if I was told from a source I trusted, with factual confirmation (and ideally with confirmation from a second source) significant negative news about the club''s finances I would certainly post that here. One has hardly been able to rely on Archant to do that job, and the club has a PR team to highlight all the good news and airbrush or stay silent on the bad. The value is that it informs fans of something that is highly relevant to them as supporters.[/quote]Nah, sorry, I will never see the logic in spreading tittle tattle that could be potentially damaging to Norwich City.

[/quote]I am talking about significant financial news, not tittle tattle.  And if the financial news is bad then it will anyway very quickly become apparent, through, for example, a lack of transfer spending, or an offloading of staff, or the administrators being called in. And if a club is in trouble word will very quickly get round what is a very small world, almost certainly ahead of any internet posting. And the damage is caused by the financial situation itself, not the news of it. I would be sorry to lose you as a reader, but I will carry on posting bad news if it''s relevant.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"]

Can you explain to me what value there is in an employee of the club, in basically broadcasting, albeit indirectly, to the entire interweb, that Norwich City are broke?[/quote]Assuming that is what happened the question really needs to be put to the person concerned (who might in this case not - strictly speaking - be an employee. None of the directors is currently an employee).But if I was told from a source I trusted, with factual confirmation (and ideally with confirmation from a second source) significant negative news about the club''s finances I would certainly post that here. One has hardly been able to rely on Archant to do that job, and the club has a PR team to highlight all the good news and airbrush or stay silent on the bad. The value is that it informs fans of something that is highly relevant to them as supporters.[/quote]Nah, sorry, I will never see the logic in spreading tittle tattle that could be potentially damaging to Norwich City.

[/quote]I am talking about significant financial news, not tittle tattle.  And if the financial news is bad then it will anyway very quickly become apparent, through, for example, a lack of transfer spending, or an offloading of staff, or the administrators being called in. And if a club is in trouble word will very quickly get round what is a very small world, almost certainly ahead of any internet posting. And the damage is caused by the financial situation itself, not the news of it. I would be sorry to lose you as a reader, but I will carry on posting bad news if it''s relevant.[/quote]I shall await news from official sources that we are broke, and in the shart, if thats alright with you.[:)]

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I really hope so. When I first used it in my mind I saw Les Dawson leaning on the garden fence having just pegged out the linen....

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